RE: What life is worth

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Sanity -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 6:53:48 AM)
The flip side of the coin is that if the utilities don't have a way to enforce payment, if they're made to give their product away then they will go broke, and no one will have benefit of its use. If we're going to cast about for a scapegoat why not hang those who protest every time a utility tries to break ground on a new power plant or other resource of any kind, thereby sending utility and energy rates sky high. quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly i agree, MissMorrigan. But it seems SilverWulf feels a persons situation should not be an issue at all...just terminate their service and let them fend for themselves. How sad.

MissMorrigan -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 6:58:32 AM)
I don't see a suggestion of the supply companies giving their services away, they usually get their money at the end of the day, whether it's via taking legal action or exercising patience in either waiting for people to pay up (if they're having mobility issues) or for a deceased's estate to be settled - in the latter, much longer.

kittinSol -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 6:58:43 AM)
What happened was medieval, shameful. Do you think that provisions should be made that would prevent this kind of thing from occurring again?

sirsholly -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:01:20 AM)
quote: The flip side of the coin is that if the utilities don't have a way to enforce payment, if they're made to give their product away then they will go broke, and no one will have benefit of its use. i think those who take the utility companies for a ride are few and far between. Most want to pay their debts.

SassySarijane -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:01:40 AM)
I find it very sad and upsetting that this happened but am not really surprised it did. Companies are out for the bottom line plain and simple and a lot of the rates they charge for things show that clearly. Do I think everyone should get a free ride? No I do not, but as other posters have said, the situations of those not paying should be investigated first before disconnecting service. If they are just after a free ride for winter, cut them off and make them pay to have it back on, but if there are plausible extenuating circumstances, then work with them. I have been in circumstances where I could not pay the amount charged and made partial payments, as much as I could afford, yet still had my service disconnected because I could pay no more until I got paid the next month. There are circumstances that are beyond people's control at times in their lives and it should be investigated and taken into account when they do not pay or do not pay the full amount. By the same token, the person should do all they can to let the utility company know of their circumstances and try to work out something, and yes, even for this there are a few exceptions as to those who don't/can't, but still, effort needs to be made on both sides.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:02:53 AM)
quote: I find the old timers death repugnant. Even here in arkansas, they can not shut power off in the winter months (at least thats my understanding). Granted there are people who will take advantage, but if situations can be proven to be dire, then for hells sake, cut people some slack. If you're just a dirtbag, then come spring, pay up sucker. They need to investigate this old mans death and charge the parties responsible for his death. Yeah, that's the policy here in Arkansas. It hardly ever gets that cold here; you'd think Bay City, Michigan would have something similar in place. I remember when the hurricane came through here and knocked all the power out last year. An old lady down the street from my parent's house was on a dialysis machine. Entergy (our electricty provider) came out and hooked up a generator for her; that is there policy. Any utility company that would shut off the power to an elderly shut-in shouldn't be allowed to provide that service.

MissMorrigan -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:07:47 AM)
Provided they were aware that the person in question is elderly and unable to attend to their own affairs in the immediate. It could well be that they weren't in possession of such info but with such freedom of personal data in the US, I'd be surprised if they didn't know.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:09:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SilverWulf <fr> In many places that I've lived the power and gas companies have been prohibited from terminating service during the winter months. Ok, I can see the point.. people literally freezing to death in their own homes is never a good thing. On the other hand are the scumbags who took advantage of it and would stop paying their utilities as soon as the magic date passed, and then work out payment arrangements to get through the summer months only to do it again the next winter. IMO, if you don't pay your utility bill your service should be terminated no matter what time of year it is. Letting people get away with not paying is like saying 'come rob the utility company, we can't do anything about it and you will get away scot free!' I just want to check and make sure I know where you're coming from so I know how seriously to take any future posts of yours that I read. What you're saying is that the 90-year old man referenced in the OP had it coming. OK, got it. Thanks.

kittinSol -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:10:41 AM)
Panda? You went from blue to damned. I'm not sure I like this [&:] .

Lynnxz -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:13:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: The flip side of the coin is that if the utilities don't have a way to enforce payment, if they're made to give their product away then they will go broke, and no one will have benefit of its use. i think those who take the utility companies for a ride are few and far between. Most want to pay their debts. Are you kidding? People will try to mooch whatever they can, not saying the old man did, but there's a good reason the companies are so jaded towards people who owe.

Sanity -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:14:29 AM)
There are many who would take full advantage, but yes - of course there should be safeguards in place. In most places there are, here it's called the Public Utilities Commission. They have a lot of power, too, and all you have to do is call them and any grievance is handled promptly. But here's a question for you. Why isn't it criminal for restaurants and grocery stores to neglect to give away free food. Why don't sporting goods stores have to hand out free sleeping bags to anyone who asks? And where was this guy's family... where was his church, or his social worker. Why aren't they equally to blame with the utility, assuming the gentleman who died had no part in it. quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol What happened was medieval, shameful. Do you think that provisions should be made that would prevent this kind of thing from occurring again?

DarkSteven -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:15:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity The flip side of the coin is that if the utilities don't have a way to enforce payment, if they're made to give their product away then they will go broke, and no one will have benefit of its use. Let's think outside the box here. The issue is obvious - the guy did not have the money to pay his bill. So who should pay it? 1. The man himself. He should have, didn't, and froze. 2. The utility. If they did, then as Sanity said, they're being forced by the government to give away their product. That's technically known as a "taking" and scares a LOT of people whenever the idea of the government depriving entities of their income. 3. The government itself. A program to cover costs. The problem is that we the taxpayers would end up paying for a $4 mil program that disbursed $400K in benefits. There is no good answer. But the idea of the government forcing a company to forego revenue scares me.

Sanity -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:16:57 AM)
That's exactly why socialism doesn't work, right there. quote: ORIGINAL: Lynnxz Are you kidding? People will try to mooch whatever they can, not saying the old man did, but there's a good reason the companies are so jaded towards people who owe.

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:17:42 AM)
Thanks for clarifying, I wasn't sure if that was the case. Plus Entergy seems to be a decent company overall.

Sanity -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:18:14 AM)
There probably was a program. There is in most states. Here, one program we have is called project share. quote: 3. The government itself. A program to cover costs. The problem is that we the taxpayers would end up paying for a $4 mil program that disbursed $400K in benefits.

kittinSol -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:23:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity And where was this guy's family... where was his church, or his social worker. Why aren't they equally to blame with the utility, assuming the gentleman who died had no part in it. I don't believe he had any children, and his wife died year ago. At his age, few people have any family left... It's interesting that after the dismantling of much of society and of social solidarity by a brutal, ruthless capitalism, and rampant individualism, we should hear that we should rely upon neighbours and families and friends. You know very well that the 1950s are long gone, Sanity.

Sanity -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:25:10 AM)
Welfare dismantled families, kitten.

sirsholly -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:26:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lynnxz quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: The flip side of the coin is that if the utilities don't have a way to enforce payment, if they're made to give their product away then they will go broke, and no one will have benefit of its use. i think those who take the utility companies for a ride are few and far between. Most want to pay their debts. Are you kidding? People will try to mooch whatever they can, not saying the old man did, but there's a good reason the companies are so jaded towards people who owe. nope...not kidding. There are always going to be those who want something for nothing, but the average person? I don't think so.

Sanity -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:26:57 AM)
Welfare and feminism. "Brutal capitalism" has been feeding the family unit practically since time began.

subtee -> RE: What life is worth (1/27/2009 7:32:02 AM)
~FR The issue for me is obvious as well. Do we want to be a country and a people that will allow some of us--in this case an elderly man--to die in order that the relatively few who would otherwise take advantage aren't able to? We don't know his situation, we have to make assumptions. Either he could pay and didn't, or he couldn't pay. What do you choose to assume? If he couldn't pay (for whatever reason, for example, he simply didn't have the money or he was challenged with senility), should he have been cut off? If he could pay and didn't, does that justify his death? (Again, we have to assume: he was a miser, he hated the utility company, he loved to scam...) If he could pay and didn't, how is society benefitted by cutting off his power--not letting him get away with it? Since we have to make assumptions or else contact every citizen personally when they fall behind, which way should our assumptions fall?

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