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RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 3:24:01 AM

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Personally, being IN a (hopefully temporary) long distance D/s triad, I'm finding it pretty hard.

I just don't get to feel the presense of my Doms like I used to, and though I wear their collar every day, it's not quite the same. I carry thoughts of their presense always, but the distance is disheartening.

But that's just me.

(in reply to MHOO314)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 4:05:35 AM

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Well I started skimming after the tenth or so post but it seems to me that a slave is someone (these days) who willingly gives up their will to another through extreme loyalty, its been done before by religous fanatics and celebrity worshippers so why cant a total level of loyalty to a dominant simply be called slavery?

I also would ask that you not consider the people who used to be on forced labour back a couple of centuries ago true slavery either, why, two words, Underground Railroad!!!

It is my fondest belief that people who are truly honest and loyal are slaves, anything less and they are just posing and should be shot for hurting ppl as such! (No respect for people who are not honest in a relationship) I doubt anyone who is a faker will read this so im pretty safe in saying that i will report a faker on sight cause i have no respect for people who are dishonest!

As far as im concerned slavery is a relationship and the more honest you are with your partner the more the relationship will work out, the more the relationship doesnt work out the more you know soemthings wrong!

< Message edited by devanite -- 1/13/2006 4:06:51 AM >

(in reply to Ashkitty)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 5:00:06 AM

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I don't think it can work very well. My Sir has tried to Dom me in areas in my life and some have worked great and others just aren't practical for me since so much of my life has been about doing things my way. We have used online to get to know each other the very best we can, we have had some terrific playtime as best as online or the phone allows. But, nothing we do online is going to be like real life. We know that and can't wait to get on to the real stuff!

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

(in reply to veronicaofML)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 5:04:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ashkitty

Personally, being IN a (hopefully temporary) long distance D/s triad, I'm finding it pretty hard.

I just don't get to feel the presense of my Doms like I used to, and though I wear their collar every day, it's not quite the same. I carry thoughts of their presense always, but the distance is disheartening.

But that's just me.

Obviously, it is NOT just you. Here's hoping it's temporary, too.

Smythe

_____________________________

Do not consider painful what is good for you.
Euripides

(in reply to Ashkitty)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 5:47:04 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe

Obviously, it is NOT just you. Here's hoping it's temporary, too.

Smythe

Thank you for your kind words. :)

(in reply to Smythe)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 6:01:40 AM

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This is why I use the term "Ultimate Authority Transfer"

A slave can easily maintain and retain direct authority in her life. However, the "ultimate authority" (or final say-so) is retained with the master.

As long as the slave is working within the ultimate authority of the master, it's gravy.

quote:

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MHOO314)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 6:14:28 AM

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quote:

I bet we need a new word for this kind of relationship.

i agree because i don't think it truely falls under the catagory of slave or submissive. it's something in between, in my opinion.

the closest i've come to slavery was being owned by a couple who lived 100 miles away. i was at their house from friday til monday, sometimes more. then in between i was at my own house. there was constant communication throughout the day. they always knew where i was and who i was with. and to the best of our abilities they knew what i spent my time doing. they didn't micromanage my life any more than they would have if i lived with them ... but they did the best they could with keeping tabs on me and guiding me through my days.

to call that slavery might be a stretch ... but i felt as owned as i could under the circumstances.

humbly,
sunshine

(in reply to Smythe)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 6:15:30 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: devanite

Well I started skimming after the tenth or so post but it seems to me that a slave is someone (these days) who willingly gives up their will to another through extreme loyalty, its been done before by religous fanatics and celebrity worshippers so why cant a total level of loyalty to a dominant simply be called slavery?

becuase total loyalty and devotion doesn't dictate slavehood. Many a Dominant live a strict monogamist lifestyle that demonstrates a total loyalty and devotion. Many a Dominant with multi-slaves will just as intensely and are totally loyal and devoted to the growth and well-being of their slaves. Many Conventional relationships show intense loyalty and devotion towards each other and none of these examples is the person a slave. Loyalty and Devotion is indeed a character strength of significance, but just because it exists within the relationship doesn't denote slavehood or lack of such. It is but a foundation block that makes whatever the relationship structure is.... BETTER!

quote:

I also would ask that you not consider the people who used to be on forced labour back a couple of centuries ago true slavery either, why, two words, Underground Railroad!!!

True slavery uh?? So, doesn't that make Consensual Slavery Fake? Does that mean because slavery in the dictionary is true and anything else is fake or untrue? Does that mean that since this type of slavery came first that anything else afterwards using the term "slavery" is untrue? Words/Labels will have more than one definition, one definition is not truer or less true than others cause becuase someone put it in a book or not in the book, or one came first and another came second. The comment of "True" slavery is silly and lacks a maturity of thought!

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 1/13/2006 7:08:44 AM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to devanite)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 6:19:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshine333

to call that slavery might be a stretch ... but i felt as owned as i could under the circumstances.

humbly,
sunshine

Actually there already is a term

"Long distance slave"
"Live in slave"

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to sunshine333)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 6:32:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Littlepita

the real stuff!

mmmmmm does that mean what you do is fake? Why degrade your current interactions with the idea that face to face is "Real" and therefore what you have and are doing is less than "Real"? It might not be easy, it might not be all that you want.... But if the intergity of your motivations is their... isn't that real? I think to many confuse the type of interactions as being Real or unreal when Realness comes out of the intergity towards our motivations and not just what it is we do!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Littlepita)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 6:41:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Well, once you meet and engage a real person,

mmmmm does that mean that until one meets and engages a person they are not "Real". Does a Tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is there to hear it? I guess it doesn't because if one can not hear it... it can't be Real!

Realness is behaviors that actively demonstrate integrity! Just so happens that online.. phone.. email and mail it's alittle harder to make judgements on the integrity of behaviors being demonstrated. Harder, but not impossible!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to cloudboy)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 6:47:06 AM

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There are like eight billion people in the world.
The average Joe, knows something like two-thousand of them ... maybe.
In percentages, that is a decimal with something like ten zero's and a 1 behind it.

I've never had an online relationship, past a few casual chat friends, but given the percentages, I certainly can't speak with any authority on what can or can't happen in any sort of relationship, online, offline, penpal, whatever. And neither can anyone else.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 6:54:04 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshine333

i agree because i don't think it truely falls under the catagory of slave or submissive. it's something in between, in my opinion.

the closest i've come to slavery was being owned by a couple who lived 100 miles away. i was at their house from friday til monday, sometimes more. then in between i was at my own house. there was constant communication throughout the day. they always knew where i was and who i was with. and to the best of our abilities they knew what i spent my time doing. they didn't micromanage my life any more than they would have if i lived with them ... but they did the best they could with keeping tabs on me and guiding me through my days.

to call that slavery might be a stretch ... but i felt as owned as i could under the circumstances.

humbly,
sunshine

mmmmmmmmmm if distance is the determining factor that a person is or is not own or a slave... then why not Time too? I see no distinction between time and distance. Some seem to be indicating that distance prevents certain behaviors from occuring... well hell why stop there... I think the Quantity of behaviors is just as important, which is also being implied by others... how can one that is in a 1 year relationship be more of a slave than one that is 3 years in the relationship.... yeah that's the ticket! Distance and Time dictate the label of slave. Being closer and more time allows one to have more so-called Master/slave interactions. SO how much TIME together should be requred to be a slave?

So... I don't care if you live with your Master...... If you haven't live with them for at least 5 years will it's not a Slave... some other term should be used... mmmmmmmm How about SHORT TERM Slave?

You know maybe 5 years isnt enough? I think 10 years is required! mmmmmmmmmm well maybe that isn't enough either after all 10 years is not even a quarter of a person adult life time. maybe when a person spends half their adult life then they can be a slave anything less than that well some other term is required!

Encase anyone misses it... I am being Highly Sarcastic! I don't have alot of patience for narrowly defined labels that are projected universally that are in of itself just plain Silly!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to sunshine333)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 6:56:04 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

There are like eight billion people in the world.
The average Joe, knows something like two-thousand of them ... maybe.
In percentages, that is a decimal with something like ten zero's and a 1 behind it.

I've never had an online relationship, past a few casual chat friends, but given the percentages, I certainly can't speak with any authority on what can or can't happen in any sort of relationship, online, offline, penpal, whatever. And neither can anyone else.

Agreed!!!!

But I think the correct number is eight billion and TWO! ;)

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to caitlyn)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 7:16:06 AM

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quote:

I know that there are people who do this, or think that they do, with a lot of communication and devotion. But my view is that it is simply impossible.

Yes, there are people who do this, and they manage to accomplish it very well. The reason why it works? Because the people involved are determined to make it work.

quote:

Well, once you meet and engage a real person, its best to just throw all the jargon out the window and be yourselves while setting your own native terms, rules, and protocols. The emphasis should be on how you fit together and what you want to do for each other.

While I don't agree with the first part of this, I do agree with the rest. Be yourselves, set up your own rules and protocols, and put emphasis on how you fit together, and what is wanted from each other.

quote:

Who is it really real to? Oh sure, you can cam with each other. A Dom can order the submissive to do certain things and sit back and watch

It's real to the people involved. Just because others may not view as their ideal of 'real', does not make it any less.

Think of it this way...two people married, one is in service and away from home 90% of the time. Just because they rely on phone, computer, cam, and snail mail...does that make them any less married? The same can be said for ANY submissive/slave online/LDR relationship.

quote:

It doesn't. They don't. The two people can play at it and do some things but as you mentioned there is nobody there but the slave to make the decisions and handle the daily necessities. For them it has to be a game or a way of getting to know what the other person might want before they actually get together and form a r/t relationship.

Again, it all comes down to how much the two people involved WANT IT TO WORK. If it's serious relationship for them, then they will do what needs to be done to make it work.

quote:

I just don't get to feel the presense of my Doms like I used to, and though I wear their collar every day, it's not quite the same. I carry thoughts of their presense always, but the distance is disheartening.

Distance is always the hardest factor to overcome. And unless the commitment is strong between the parties involved, it is usually what destroys a relationship.

No two relationships are EVER going to be the same. Someone mentioned in another thread that what YOU view as right or wrong will never conincide with what THEY viewed as right and wrong. And that is how it should be. Relationships are not based on what others believe, but on how YOU perceive them. That is how it should be.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to MHOO314)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 7:35:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

mmmmm does that mean that until one meets and engages a person they are not "Real". Does a Tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is there to hear it? I guess it doesn't because if one can not hear it... it can't be Real!

Realness is behaviors that actively demonstrate integrity! Just so happens that online.. phone.. email and mail it's alittle harder to make judgements on the integrity of behaviors being demonstrated. Harder, but not impossible!

Christ!! I can't believe you're throwing this at me. OK, I get it.

How is this instead:

>Well, once you meet and engage a person, its best to just throw all the jargon out the window and be yourselves while setting your own native terms, rules, and protocols. The emphasis should be on how you fit together and what you want to do for each other.<

In MH's case, a case from which her question sprung, she is about to meet her boy. Should she worry/concentrate on where she and he fit into the ideological universe of BDSM or should she worry/concentrate on how she and he fit together? Put me in the latter camp.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 7:49:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

We have lately had many spirited discussions about submissives versus slaves---slaves being presented as someone with no will or someone who gives up will completely ( I guess)--My question is in the context of online or an LDR--how does a slave relationship exist? The slave is obviously living on their own, how are decisions made? How does it work?

I am a slave in a long distance relationship with Knight of Mists, so I have quite a bit of experience in regards to this question. He and I met originally online but there was never a formal M/s relationship until after we met and were able to see our behaviors demonstrated face to face. Since that time, we travel to each other every couple months and spend a week or more together. When we are apart, we talk for hours every single day. It isn’t easy, but the distance does not limit our M/s relationship, it only limits our ability to touch each other.

I do not agree with the statement that a slave has no will or gives up their will completely. Just because I became a slave does not mean that I do not have any will of my own, it just means that I obey his will before my own.
In essence my will is enslaved, but it still exists. I make the daily choice to put his will before my own. He controls exactly what he wants to control in my life and has the freedom to control whatever he wishes; this makes me his slave.

My obedience to his will does not change when we are together compared to when we are apart and it will not change when I finally move into his house.
I think it speaks rather poorly of a relationship if the slave only obeys the will of the master when they are in their presence. If a person lacks the integrity or self-discipline to obey the will of their master in an online or long distance relationship, then they will not have the integrity or self-discipline to obey master’s will face to face. They will just have to be a little more creative in their lies, deceptions and disobedience. If a master cannot trust that their slave will obey their will long distance, then there are many more issues with the relationship than just distance.

My Lord is not one to micro-manage his slaves. Alandra lives with him and she does not receive instructions much different than I do. She is more available for direct service to him and my service tends to be more indirect, but she is not more of a slave to him because of that. My Lord also prefers us to be intrinsically motivated to please him and obey his will. He does not have to force us to obey him, he just expects us to obey him.

Just because I live on my own does not limit my Lord’s ability to control my life. I am no longer independent since I am now subject to another’s will, his will. I know the rules that I have been given and I make decisions always with the thought of pleasing him and doing his will. When I live with him, decisions will not be made in any other way.

A long distance M/s relationship can and does work, but like all long distance relationships whether conventional or D/s, it takes effort, commitment and common goals to make it work.

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to MHOO314)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 7:52:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

>Well, once you meet and engage a person, its best to just throw all the jargon out the window and be yourselves while setting your own native terms, rules, and protocols. The emphasis should be on how you fit together and what you want to do for each other.<

I think this is great Advice!!!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to cloudboy)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 7:56:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

We have lately had many spirited discussions about submissives versus slaves---slaves being presented as someone with no will or someone who gives up will completely ( I guess)

Thats just a tad insulting consider there are people on here who do identify as a slave.

Beyond that, i'm not in an LDR so I can't answer the topic question.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to MHOO314)

RE: Online or Distance relationships - 1/13/2006 8:00:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Christ!! I can't believe you're throwing this at me. OK, I get it.

How is this instead:

>Well, once you meet and engage a person, its best to just throw all the jargon out the window and be yourselves while setting your own native terms, rules, and protocols. The emphasis should be on how you fit together and what you want to do for each other.<

In MH's case, a case from which her question sprung, she is about to meet her boy. Should she worry/concentrate on where she and he fit into the ideological universe of BDSM or should she worry/concentrate on how she and he fit together? Put me in the latter camp.

Smiles> cloudboy, I JUST finished a post on another thread to that very issue---the "labels" and the "desires" are what brought us together, captured attention on the search radar--we have had so many conversations that have opened and expanded our horizons--well beyond both BDSM and vanilla--"real", "service", "submission", "Dominance" are subjective terms--all to be negotiated in the D/dynamic of the D/dance--and yes cloudboy--our time together will be to see how well we fit together--the dynamic--he has to feel inspired, accepted, safe to be what he is, I need to feel inspired to be what I am as well as driven by what he offers.

W/we have both started negotiation--here are some examples:

Piercings--he said hard limit--now he thinks hmmm
Instant coffee--hard limit for Me--he has a new coffee maker
Stanley Clarke--I never heard of him--now I have 2 CD's
Cologne--he doesn't wear any, I am selecting a cologne
Daily contact--he missed it once, will get punished, hasn't missed it since
Shackles--I only thought about them, with him that is now a desire--(he inspires Me to medieval thinking---mmoooowwaaaaahhhhh)

Negotiaton--ohhh and notice they aren't all BDSM--we are all over the board.

as I stated before on another thread, whan I return My hope is to have one label for him...

Mine.

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor

(in reply to cloudboy)

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