“I can do it verses should I do it” (Full Version)

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GreyDragon1952 -> “I can do it verses should I do it” (8/12/2004 12:34:27 PM)

quote:

I wrote elsewhere about wisdom in this life sometimes being the difference between what you can do, and what you should. Training a pleasure slave, unless you are sure you want a pleasure slave, is one of those things.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/11/2004 2:58:48 PM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

This would be a great thread the “I can do it verses should I do it” You’re the real life Gorean if we can believe it, and I’m all for believing, because I want it to be so. I want there to be real life Goreans and BDSM as a whole that have gone thru the pitfalls and can tell others about them so that those following can better understand the pros and cons of such and such actions. I’m the online actor type that would like to learn more about real life. If you make a mistake online the worse that can happen is you get booed off the stage and in many case the girl is crying behind her computer screen and just maybe you done some harm there as well. In real life you can mess up someone’s head and life for good.

I don’t like the idea of taking a woman , making her completely depend on you and then casting her off when she no longer serves your propose or pleases you. Which I think many share in this view. In the Fantasy world of Gor its just a matter of selling the girl or giving her to a friend. There is no such network of Goreans here in real life. If there were, them maybe we could have that luxury. For now there is not. That sort of leaves you with hiding the body as an option, again not a very good idea

I don't mind being called out for a mistake here if it saves me from making one in real life. I'm hoping the same can be said about all of us.

Grey Dragon



Leonidas -> RE: “I can do it verses should I do it” (8/12/2004 12:43:33 PM)

I think I've said about what I had to say about this GreyDragon. The woman that I spoke of posts here, maybe she'll comment. It might be a good thread for others to discuss this though. As far as there not being a network of Goreans among whom slaves are traded, that isn't the case. I have, myself, on more than one occasion given a slave to a friend.

It's a good topic though, maybe it will draw some interest.



newflowers -> RE: “I can do it verses should I do it” (8/12/2004 1:27:36 PM)

Knowing only a little about Gorean philosophy and next to nothing about Gorean lifestyle except that, as a long time student of ME dance, the dancing part seems very cool, I still find this an interesting topic. In part, the interest is the responses - rather like AP and the immediate certainty that some *know* it is repressed pedophilia and/or repressed issue of sexual abuse. Gor seems to draw similar responses - those with little or no experience who are ever so certain of what it is all about and why it is such a terrible thing. Granted, what little I know leads me to believe it is not a lifestyle best suited to my temperment, however, I am curious about most everything - learning for its own sake is always a good thing.

The idea of being given away brings its own set of issues and concerns. As I understand it, one makes the decision to be a slave. After that point, all decisions rest in the hand of the master, therefore, the decision to keep or release a slave would also be solely the province of the master. However, if one decides to be a slave because one has a particular affinty for an individual, if that slave is then given away, does she not get to choose to whom she may be given, and what if she does not wish to be traded or given to another? Am I missing the point and Gorean lifestyle does not offer this choice or any choce to the slave?

I can understand the concept of honoring vows made - I choose to be the slave of X and all decisions are his after I am owned and collared. I believe that honor and commitment are significant aspects of any relationship and certainly of an Ms/Ds.

So perhaps this is my question: if, as a Gorean master, you own a collared slave who has chosen to be owned by you, she understands that after the initial decision, she obeys the will of her owner, if/when the owner decides to give away the slave, does she agree to this? Does she have the option of saying, if I cannot belong to you, I wish to belong to another of my chosing? What considerations does the owner give the slave when making such a decision? Can you tell me with a fair amount of specificity, what are the reasons, subsequent procedures, and consequences for the slave to be given away a slave in Gorean lifestyle?

newflowers



Leonidas -> RE: “I can do it verses should I do it” (8/12/2004 1:48:28 PM)

Hi newflowers,

When a slave is new and inexperienced, it is common for her to beg the collar of a man who is not necessarily her "soul mate", or as we say "love master", but just happens to be a man who has a reputation for being good with slaves, especially new slaves. Many times, the new girl is not the only slave in the man's house. In his collar, she learns slavery. She may stay in his house forever, but it's not really expected that she will. If the man in question is part of a community, the new slave, as she progresses, may well catch the eye of one of her master's friends. She may serve the friend at parties and such that both he and her master attend. I, at least, wasn't blind to noticing when a friend had taken a liking to a slave of mine. In the few cases where I did give a slave away, I pretty much had the impression that the slave wouldn't mind too much, if you know what I mean.

The other situation is where the man doesn't want the slave anymore, for the same various reasons that masters and slaves part ways in any kind of TPE relationship. In these situations, the slave sometimes wants her master to place her elsewhere, hopefully with someone that he knows and respects, or that he has at least screened. Not too long ago, there was a thread here (I'm sure proudsub could find it) that discussed a Gorean man who was doing just that; placing a girl that he no longer wanted. As I said there, the slave often fears falling into the wrong hands; either a sadist or a man who is not strong enough to master her, and so wants her master to place her in good hands. As deanna said below, a slave sometimes trusts her master's decisions in these maters above her own, especially if she's been with him for a long while.

For women who are attracted to our ways to begin with, it is somewhat thrilling to have no say in changing hands this way in a transaction between men. As you said, it wouldn't appeal to you, but it takes all kinds. If the slave objected, she could, as is always the case, opt out of her collar. I personally have never seen it happen.

It really isn't anything as sinister as it might sound on the surface, just one possible maturation and socialization process for one of our slaves, or a way for a slave to transition from one house to another without having to brave seeking a master alone.

Somehow all these threads that I'm posting to keep coming around to Gorean topics. I didn't mind answering here, and I hope this is what you are looking for, but I hope that this thread gets back to its intended subject.



deannalynn -> RE: “I can do it verses should I do it” (8/12/2004 1:57:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: newflowers

However, if one decides to be a slave because one has a particular affinty for an individual, if that slave is then given away, does she not get to choose to whom she may be given, and what if she does not wish to be traded or given to another? Am I missing the point and Gorean lifestyle does not offer this choice or any choce to the slave?
newflowers




Hello newflowers,

I have personally known a girl that was given away and she was not asked or consulted. In fact the man that gave her away, didnt even own her . She ended up becoming the other man's slave and he took her as his wife . It was a good match.

Sometimes the kindest thing to do with a slave a man no longer wishes to own is give her to another man. Its not easy for a slave fending for themselves emotionally because a need is created and they always dont make the best choices or decisions. If they belonged to the man long enough, they should trust his decisions and know he is doing it for her best welfare.

Its a rare thing even within the gorean community. I have known others also but have not met them personally who were given away. But its not the norm. It would shock many even within the lifestyle.


quote:

ORIGINAL: newflowers

So perhaps this is my question: if, as a Gorean master, you own a collared slave who has chosen to be owned by you, she understands that after the initial decision, she obeys the will of her owner, if/when the owner decides to give away the slave, does she agree to this? Does she have the option of saying, if I cannot belong to you, I wish to belong to another of my chosing? What considerations does the owner give the slave when making such a decision? Can you tell me with a fair amount of specificity, what are the reasons, subsequent procedures, and consequences for the slave for giving away a slave in Gorean lifestyle?



I think with everything it depends on the dynamics of the relationship, everyone is different and every relationship unique. I am not a big believer in the term 'consentual slavery,' because at a point it no longer becomes consentual. The thought of not obeying, no longer enters the mind. Of course everyone has free will, but their motivation becomes the pleasure of another.

wishing you well,

deanna



afmvdp -> RE: “I can do it verses should I do it” (8/12/2004 2:11:24 PM)

Very interesting. Sounds rather similar to my own process on a 2nd level ascension and dismissal. Though rather than giving them away to a new master when I believe they have completed the course and are at their highest possible obtainment they are given enough money to start a new life and a one way ticket to where ever it is in their desires that they would want to go. They continue their new life there with their new name, new attitude, new dreams, new energy and vigor. From there they are normally quite prepared for the new mate that fate brings to them. haha. Gotten quite a few thank you letters in return from their husbands, boyfriends, etc. Only difference is that I never really leave that particular persons life. Just as a child who turns 18, moves off to college and employment, etc may leave their parents but the parents never leave the childs life. I still keep in regular contact with almost all of them.



deannalynn -> RE: “I can do it verses should I do it” (8/12/2004 2:16:48 PM)

Warm greetings,

It made a post come to mind about a woman falling head over heels for a man in one night.

Many times when a woman first experiences a relationship with a dom, it has gone through their mind and played out a thousand times. They are not sure it is real, and mostly has filled their fantasies.

The woman serves a man, and he goes to town, no holds barred. The first time if it is rather intense, the man has fulfilled every fantasy and more. I would guess some females would be blown away totally and their only thoughts are; my god, its real. I want to feel this again, and the only person that was able to make them feel this way was this man. I think it takes times, because if the man no longer wishes to see her she will come to realize others can make her feel this way. He has created a need where she will get fulfilled some where else.

Intesify this in another relationship and have a man train a woman in a particular way that is not usual, for a long period of time. Something she is not capable of turning off and on because it has become part of her. The relationship ends and fulfilling the needs becomes much more difficult. Its like a drug addict without a drug.

just some ramblings,

deanna



jillwfsub4blkdom -> RE: “I can do it verses should I do it” (8/12/2004 3:11:55 PM)

GreyDragon,
Very interesting topic. Am looking forward to seeing where this evolves lol.



Sundew02 -> RE: “I can do it verses should I do it” (8/12/2004 11:46:07 PM)

When you have to stop and think "should I do this", the answer is 99.9% of the time, no. As we might want to deal in absolutes, there are no guarentees that what we are doing will have the outcome we desire. Have I made mistakes? Yes, but in the end I have left the sweet males in better mental shape than I found them. The biggest mistake I made was taking a male far from my state, who did let me know he was very attached to his extended family. After only a very short relationship, he became homesick and went back to the safety of fanasty, and his extended family. Now, I have learned from that years ago mistake, and no longer ignore my inner voice. Sundew



iwillserveu -> RE: “I can do it verses should I do it” Is this Gorean-only? (8/13/2004 2:13:19 AM)

Is this a Gorean only thread? If so can we get the word "Gorean only" in the title, moderator? I do not want to waste my time and I'm sure the Goreans do not want to waste their time reading a non-Gorean response from me.



jillwfsub4blkdom -> RE: “I can do it verses should I do it” Is this Gorean-only? (8/13/2004 5:58:16 AM)

iwill,
i think this is a good question which is applicable to all. GreyDragon i hope i am not overstepping my boundaries.



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