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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/14/2006 8:12:34 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

screw him, do what you need to do.

Amen

_____________________________

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Ha Ha...Charade you are!


Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to MHOO314)
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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/14/2006 8:21:04 PM   
LadyShoshin


Posts: 492
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
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quote:

"I thought this person was smart.... newsflash for me... he's pretty stupid. Almost as stupid as me."


Dear heart, you are not stupid, you showed that by getting out.

A person who has a trustworthy heart only sees the same in others, a person who is respectful only sees the same in others, a person who takes people at face value is not stupid. It only took you a few weeks to realise this man is not what he claims to be, that is the sign of someone who is intelligent and observant, someone who is not willing to compromise their values and ideals.

I hope you take the idiot to court and win. I wouldn't count heavily on the alpha slave backing up what you say about abuse, she must need to be there or she too would have left. It is difficult to leave an abuser when you are totally dependant on them and have poor self esteem. Having to be worried about supporting a family if she has no markatable skills may keep her in that situation.

Kudos on doing the healthy thing for yourself.

I am a pagan, but the Phillips Bible has a good answer for the twit, if he loves you, he should be able to say honestly, "I am slow to lose patience. I look for a way of being constructive. I am not possessive. I am not anxious to impress. I do not cherish inflated ideas of my own importance. I have good manners and do not pursue selfish advantage. I am not touchy. I do not keep account of evil or gloat over the wickedness of other people. On the contrary, I share the joy of those who live by the truth. I know no limit to my endurance, no end to my trust, no fading of my hope. I can outlast anything. My love never fails." (1 Corinthians 13:4-8a)

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/14/2006 8:23:05 PM   
FelinePersuasion


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quote:


and risk losing his job, going to jail, paying a fine, upsetting his family, having CYS investigate the welfare



If he's treating the children badly you should report him anyway. even if he did give your stuff back if you know it's abusive and you keep quiet you're an accessory to the abuse.

(in reply to phoenix1)
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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/14/2006 8:25:50 PM   
Mercnbeth


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Taking everything Phoenix reported as truth - this is a very sad story. But it's not BDSM lifestyle specific. The abuse illustrated is abuse in any environment. As responsible adults, abuse of minors requires intervention. Need proof? Look at what's happening in NYC and how the people around the story. Of course the bureaucrats are shouting "Don't blame me!" But the neighbors, well they feel guilty and they didn't live in the house.
(Story: http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/60382.htm)

When a person becomes "slave" they shouldn't leave all cognizant reasoning behind.

It may be a good idea if there is a problem with your Master/husband; but this "mentor" doesn't assign himself "joint ownership". But then you say it was "ok and also ok that you relocated to SC. If that was okay, was his drug use ok? Was his "stealing from his company? Was his assaulting and abuse okay? If you say you didn't know this aspect of him prior to being "ok with relocating" you didn't know enough about him to trust him with your life. If he changed that dramatically, it implied failure on his part to live up to his end of the Master slave relationship.

The other part of this is a matter of pre agreed definitions. A slave relinquishes possessions including herself. Did your relationship with him include this consideration? It's important on a deeper level. Because what I read into your post isn't so much that you cared about the abuse of yourself or others in the household. You only bring these things up as important because of possessions. Albeit some are personal, but they still are possessions. If the situation you describe really is serious, why does collecting them supersede correcting the abusive situation?

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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/14/2006 8:26:30 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

It is difficult to leave an abuser when you are totally dependant on them

very true. that is why i feel that a sub's savings should be kept seperate.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!


Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/14/2006 9:17:20 PM   
phoenix1


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But it's not BDSM lifestyle specific.
I believe it is, because the entire nucleus of this situation is that of a poly family.

As responsible adults, abuse of minors requires intervention.
True, but it's common that the protective agencies cause much more harm to the child than what was happening in the first place. So, with this one issue, I'm going to go slow and give it a lot of thought, probably get some advice about it also... before taking any action.

It may be a good idea if there is a problem with your Master/husband; but this "mentor" doesn't assign himself "joint ownership".
All three of us were in agreement of this.

But then you say it was "ok and also ok that you relocated to SC.
When I left to go to his home, I was fine with what my understanding of his household and how he and his family were. My mistake was not getting to know him for a longer period of time, not being more detailed about 'red lights' and warnings I had seen while we chatted online.... I just breezed over them.

If that was okay, was his drug use ok? Was his "stealing from his company? Was his assaulting and abuse okay? If you say you didn't know this aspect of him prior to being "ok with relocating" you didn't know enough about him to trust him with your life.
Yes, you are right. I did not know him well enough to trust him with my life.

If he changed that dramatically, it implied failure on his part to live up to his end of the Master slave relationship.
He didn't change, he hid the way he really was from me. I didn't know until I was there and some of it took some time for me to either realize or admit.

The other part of this is a matter of pre agreed definitions. A slave relinquishes possessions including herself. Did your relationship with him include this consideration?
We didn't discuss it, but I already knew that just from general knowledge. I don't think this should apply if the Master purposefully and intentionally hides tons of things from the slave, as in all the things I mentioned on this thread.

If he had been honest and said that he does scream and yell at his wife/slave and children, and does physically abuse her at times, I would never have gone there, thus, my possessions wouldn't be in question right now.


It's important on a deeper level. Because what I read into your post isn't so much that you cared about the abuse of yourself or others in the household. You only bring these things up as important because of possessions. Albeit some are personal, but they still are possessions. If the situation you describe really is serious, why does collecting them supersede correcting the abusive situation?

To me, they are 2 totally separate issues. The first and most important issue is the abuse. The alpha slave cannot be forced to leave her husband/Master, even for her own good. She CAN'T be forced to leave him. She has to become emotionally healthy enough to leave him on her own. She loves him... was it MY call, to decide if she should leave him or not? I think not. I am not God.

I focused on loving her, edifying her, nurturing her, showing her that she is a great, wonderful person... to boost her self-esteem that he had shredded so badly... I was empowering her as much and as quickly as I could, while I was there... hoping that if SHE decided to leave... she might be strong enough to actually do it.

It's easy to make a phone call and have authorities invade a family's home... but frequently those same authorities can make a kid's life pure hell... much worse than what he was dealing with in the family unit. Again.... I am not God.

Don't you think I'm concerned about these things prior to me making this thread? I haven't stopped thinking and worrying about this family for one second since I left there 2 weeks ago! I don't take topics like this very lightly and I don't react very quickly to them either.

Aside from that.... yes, I do want my things back.


< Message edited by phoenix1 -- 1/14/2006 9:41:51 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/14/2006 9:35:29 PM   
phoenix1


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Thank you, Lady Shoshin... *smile

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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/14/2006 10:32:45 PM   
subtlesubie


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Seems to me, "A Master that Steals" is about the least of your problems. Just out of curiousity, faced with a highly unstable psychopathic abuser spiraling towards homicide, what kind of person bothers to get "released"? Christ, if a house is burning all around you and about to collapse, do you stop your egress to take the cookies out of the oven? Be thankful all you lost was your pictures and papers.


< Message edited by subtlesubie -- 1/14/2006 10:34:33 PM >

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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/14/2006 10:49:24 PM   
EvilGeoff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenix1

I know what I need to do? And how to fix it? I don't think I do. I'm just floundering around here. Heck, I don't want to go to court with these people! I will if I have to, but why doesn't he just give me my stuff back? Just to hurt me?



Ding-Ding-DING! Right the first time.

Phoenix, hon, if you have not figured this out by now, the person you are/were dealing with is a selfish, probably sociopathic, individual. The ONLY consideration he has is HIMSELF. Not you, not the wife, not the kids, not the law, not the job, its all about HIM.

If you want your stuff back there are a few ways of going about it.
#1 - Ask him to return it. Persistently, firmly, calmly, repeatedly if necessary
#2 - Bring a lawsuit
#3 - Get 3 - 4 really big, really scarey, really mean guys go there with you and take it back.

#3 may be the most personally gratifying, #1 may take the longest but have the fewest repercusions, and #2 will probably cost more than it's worth in the long run.

This guy sounds like a total nutjob. Good luck!

YIK,
- Geoff

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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/14/2006 10:53:55 PM   
Slipstreme


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What if they were to intervene, and you were there to help the alpha slave when she fell? Good friends can easily prevent such type of downfall from being so serious that the other person can't go on. I know. I've done it for my friends on two occasions so far.

The abuse does have to end. We all know that. Sometimes the best thing you can do for a person is to hurt them emotionally first. Cause she will be hurt. But being there to catch them when they fall and comforting them in their dark days until they get back on their feet is the important part. You can help her find her way again. There has to be an end to his tyranny, provided what you claim is truth, which it seems so.

Unfortunately though, you are the only person who can stop this cycle. And I hope you find a way soon.

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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/14/2006 11:20:27 PM   
phoenix1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlesubie

Seems to me, "A Master that Steals" is about the least of your problems. Just out of curiousity, faced with a highly unstable psychopathic abuser spiraling towards homicide, what kind of person bothers to get "released"? Christ, if a house is burning all around you and about to collapse, do you stop your egress to take the cookies out of the oven? Be thankful all you lost was your pictures and papers.



yes.... I'm definitely a don't let the cookies burn type... I do have issues of my own that were going on here, such as... I have always been such a sweet, nice person... that I've paid dearly for it my entire life... and obviously, I still am...

part of the therapy I'm getting... is to stop being victimized by others.... I thought 2 years of therapy was enough for me... I can see now that I need more....

I truly wish I really could be a bitch... I heard that it's a lot less painful than being nice....

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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/14/2006 11:38:16 PM   
phoenix1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilGeoff


quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenix1

I know what I need to do? And how to fix it? I don't think I do. I'm just floundering around here. Heck, I don't want to go to court with these people! I will if I have to, but why doesn't he just give me my stuff back? Just to hurt me?



Ding-Ding-DING! Right the first time.

Phoenix, hon, if you have not figured this out by now, the person you are/were dealing with is a selfish, probably sociopathic, individual. The ONLY consideration he has is HIMSELF. Not you, not the wife, not the kids, not the law, not the job, its all about HIM.



Matter of fact, going by some of the things he told me, the alpha slave told me, and what the neighbor told me.... I'm starting to wonder about the other slaves that were in and "supposedly" back out of his house/life....

never sure if I'm just being paranoid or not... but anyone ever hear of a grown daughter who just had a baby that doesn't really exist?.... or a young woman who they both supposedly knew in detail and lived at the house, but the alpha slave never really met or saw this woman because she wasn't there that month?.... or.... the several slaves with terminal illnesses that overlap eachother's time periods but the alpha slave is not aware of their existences at all?

then I wonder about the dungeon that's in a secluded location... and how one of my upcoming tasks was supposed to be.. being put in a dog crate sized cage.... even after I told him I'm severely claustophobic and being locked in a cage that small would be too damaging to my mind or emotions?

hmm..... other future tasks on my list.... being a prop for his son as soon as he turns 18.... being "willed" to his son in the event of this Master's death (and all that it would entail, this was one of the things the alpha slave wasn't supposed to know about as it's her son too)...

having sex with animals ("your alpha sister can't ever, ever, ever know about any of this")... uhmmm...... *trying to remember other stuff he told me......

oh.... I was supposed to have sex with an 18 year old girl, the latest one he added to our "poly family" and had just collared online.... sorry, but he knew my age limit for partners is 43 or older... (no offense to anyone younger than that).....

keeping secrets and lying to the alpha slave was the latest "test" for me.... I couldn't do that one...

he kept pressuring me to use drugs... he pushed that one a lot but I don't do drugs... thank god he didn't make me.... but he kept bringing it up....

oh yea, I was supposed to earn enough money to have a down payment for a house, to buy him a brand new harley davidson motorcycle, a flat screen tv for the livingroom wall, etc.

there were other things on my "future tasks list" but I'm sure that gives you an idea....

As for your suggestions list... no comment. *little smile

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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/14/2006 11:42:54 PM   
phoenix1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slipstreme

What if they were to intervene, and you were there to help the alpha slave when she fell?



She already knows that she can bring the kids and come to live with me whenever she wishes. She has a safe, loving and nurturing environment available at all times and the way my family is... they would all accept a new family member with open hearts. She would have so many people wanting to help her and make her and the kids happy, she wouldn't believe it.

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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/14/2006 11:48:00 PM   
subtlesubie


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Being nice is important, no doubt. Niceness is a gift you bestow on people who deserve it. Bending over backwards to accomodate the insane is not being nice to yourself. And that's just as important.

I am not sure you need therapy - just conduct yourself in accordance with a simple principle - if people aren't nice to you, don't allow them in your life. I learned this as a boy, and I assure you, it has served me well these many years.

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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/14/2006 11:52:37 PM   
cravinspankin


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I can't tell you why anyone behaves in any way they do.
Nor can I offer you advice about how to get your stuff back.
However, this post does prompt me to stay two things:
1. This is a prime example of why no one should commit to any relationship and move in with someone until they know them quite well, and that takes a great deal of time together, first.
2. If you have seen instances of child abuse, you have an obligation to report it. You should have done so the minute you saw it. No excuses. But it's not too late now either. Report it.

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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/15/2006 12:16:28 AM   
phoenix1


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Master Dragon and my brother just returned from their long drive back from Myrtle Beach... list of my things this man kept....
1. the 4" white binder containing 5 years of typed journal documents about my life and psychotherapy sessions.
2. my computer, brand new $350 flat screen monitor, speakers, mouse, etc.
3. a storage container filled with computer programs.
4. a good portion of my clothing.
5. the brand new fur lined jacket my mother bought me as a gift for when I went to SC.
6. a box of jewelry (all of it bought in department stores, none of it valuable)... in this was the jewelry I wore at my wedding, a special necklace my mother bought me as a gift, a bracelet my daughter bought me for my birthday, pearl earrings my son bought me when he was on his way home from the Iraq war, a "Mother" pin my kids bought me, etc.
7. the stuffed monkey that has become an icon to children all over the U.S.
8. the sex toys I BOUGHT.... the crop he hit me with, the flogger, nipple clamps, 2 xrated movies, my butterfly.

I will be listing these items when we go to court.

What's extra hurtful about this is..... one of the main tasks I had and accepted gladly, is that the alpha slave had recently been diagnosed with cancer. My task was to help her with housework and any other chores she had to do... but more importantly, to be her constant companion throughout all her chemotherapy/radiation treatments and be edifying and uplifting to her with all of this. I know I did a fantastic job... after all... we became true sisters... very close...

I asked him every 2 weeks if he was satisified with how I was doing with this... his exact words were "You have exceeded my highest expectations with your task, I am very pleased with you". I then asked him for a reward, he asked what I wanted... I asked him very nicely if he would please stop using physical violence when they are argueing or fighting. That's what I wanted for my reward.

As to her words about me... she begged me not to leave her because she would be all alone with him again... and she said... "you are my only salvation".

I feel too upset to make any more posts about this tonight.

(in reply to Arpig)
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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/15/2006 1:34:33 AM   
ExistentialSteel


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Phonenix, what recently happened to me may help you with the South Carolina legal issues. I owned a vacation house in SC and let someone live there for nothing. No rent was paid in any fashion. I was helping the person out plus keeping the property secure. It didn’t hurt me to have someone live there. The utilities were in my name, but the person paid me when I presented the bills.

To make a long story short, there came a time when this person left without paying the utility bills, but left belongings. To my amazement the law is that I had to give up all belongings and give this person access to my place.

The SC law is that even an unpaying guest has tenant rights. This means you have to have a court order to evict and have to let them take their property when they leave. If you have debts against them, that is a separate issue that has to be settled in a separate action.

In essence, the Dom cannot keep your belongings…even if you owe him something in his mind. Good luck and I hope this helps.


_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/15/2006 2:05:18 AM   
phoenix1


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Thank you, Steel... he's had more than enough time to copy my hard drive and my binder of notes... it's not that expensive either... if he wants to steal my stuff, he should at least copy everything and give me back the originals... as for my jacket my mom bought me... if the alpha slave will wear it (it looks fantastic on her) and think of me every time she does... I will then not mind if she keeps it.

Same for most of my jewelry, except the pieces my kids and mom gave me.

Thanks for the encouragement though.

Oh, and I do wish I had my stuffed animal back.

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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/15/2006 2:37:39 AM   
Padriag


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Regarding the "triple x photos", thanks to 18 U.S.C. § 2257 (which most people hate, but in this case works in your favor) since he doesn't have a signed written release from you if he publishes those photos on a web site he's committed a felony and can be prosecuted. Having a lawyer notify him of this might be helpful.

Under US and International copyright law, all those photos, your journals and the book you were writing are considered copyrighted materials, if he were to publish them for profit he would be liable for a lawsuit. However, since its an unregistered copyright you can only recover damages you can prove (in other words, you can only get whatever money he makes off it).

Existential is correct about the law regarding your property, he is required by law to return all your property. You would be considered, under law, as a former tenant and are entitled to those rights. (This is in fact the law in much of the US)

You should have reported the drug use, stealing and abuse when it happened, at this point its a bit late. Frankly, I consider not having reported the child abuse heinous in itself.

My advice... look more carefully before you leap in the future. You walked out of a marriage/relationship and straight into this "collar" when things got rough and then when they went sour there you ran right back. Had I been your former husband/master you wouldn't have been accepted back... period. So consider yourself lucky.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: A Master Who Steals - 1/15/2006 5:35:56 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

I don't care about my timing... I don't care if I don't appear believable... if the cops do nothing... that's their decision... I just want my stuff back.... that's it.


I think that you misunderstood here. I was not trying to imply that you were being dishonest. Having worked for many years in the Domestic Violence field and having worked very closely with law enforcement.....what I was trying to impress upon you is how this may look to people in those fields....AS IT HAS BEEN PORTRAYED. I am the one who always believes someone who comes forth with an account of abuse....and to be honest with you I have taken alot of flack for being so gullible both on these boards and in life. It has always been my philosophy though that to discount someone before there is adequate reason to do so could possibly result in shortchanging someone who is desperately in need. So what I am saying to you is that if your accounting of the events has me puzzled....chances are you are going to get the same type of response from law enforcement, because as I was trying to say, they view everything through the eyes of suspicion to begin with, especially where ex's are concerned.

The whole thing just hit me in an odd way. When you said that you used to post under the name zaynab I went back and read a good deal of your old posts....trying to get a better understanding. To be honest with you though, that just left me even more confused. It seems that there has been ALOT of abuse in your life....so much so that you have related to us that you have DID/MPD, and went on to detail 9 different alter personalities and talked of many more. In reading your posts, it seems that you have given a great deal of thought to the reality that has been your life and have worked very hard to understand. You also seem to have had a good grasp on identifying abuse and abusers...as is evidenced by this post that you made:

quote:

If you are a person in an abusive relationship, take some time to learn about psychopaths. You will be surprised at what you find out. Most people think a psychopath is a person with a big knife getting ready to ax you while you are taking a shower (the movie "psycho", or whatever it was called). Not necessarily.

A psychopath is a person who does not have a conscience (layman's description perhaps).

When reading about psychopaths, know that many of them learn how to mimic a person with a conscience, usually while they are growing up. They notice that people look at them strangely when a dog gets smashed by a car and they are laughing, while everyone else is shocked or crying... so after that, they copy the shock expression and tears, so they will "fit in" with others. Too much info about this to explain it further in a post, but learning about it on the net and in books is very interesting.

If you suspect you are living with a psychopath, please seek help fast (psychologist for yourself) and be as cautious as you can. There are websites out there with great advice on how to escape from a psychopath, if you are living with one.

The safest way to escape from a relationship with a psychopath is to make a careful, detailed plan. It's all about mind games, so concentrate on that when you make your plan. Safety, safety, safety has to be the #1 rule of your escape plan.

Here's a few things I remember from the escape plan I remember:
~ do not let your psychopath be aware that you are planning the escape.
~ try to get money set aside secretly but have a back up story in case the psychopath finds out about the money.
~ make copies of any and all records you need to take with you (legal, medical, financial, etc.) and store them at a safe person's house, hidden as the psychpath may find them there)
~ make several copies of all keys that go to everything, hide one set outside the house and give another set to a safe person to hold for you.
~ get your kids fingerprints recorded somewhere, and take pictures of your kids at least once a month (if you can't escape for a long time) and give the pictures to a safe person to hold, date the backs of them and put your child's full name, SS#, birthdate, etc. also.
~ keep a diary of facts of what is going on, include outside witnesses to events, etc. with their phone numbers by their names when mentioned, etc. DO NOT keep this diary in the same house that you live in.
~ learn about "mind games" and "hooks" and how to stop the games. Best way is just to say "Oh". No matter what is said or asked by the psychopath, just say "oh", "oh?" or "Ohhhh!"
~ If bruised, have a safe person take a photo of the bruise, date the back, put their name on the back with their phone number and hide the photo in a safe place NOT in your house.... probably with the safe person.
~ tell your psychopath you are going to therapy for depression (that would not be lying) and tell your therapist what is going on, facts first always... so there is a record of what is happening.
~ get regular doctor exams and be honest about how you were physically damaged.

*sighhh... there's so much MORE info about how to deal with or escape from a psychopath... tons of it.... psychopaths are not rare... people just think they are.
There's a great messageboard on msn groups for support, forget the addy. Also a lot of good books to read, one of them being "stop walking on eggshells". Good Luck for anyone who is in a situation with a person like this. ~ zay


After I read this I had to ask myself why then would you not have seen the indicators that this current situation was unhealthy? ...and furthermore, why did leaving cause so much confusion for you when it seemed you had an insightful escape plan that you had obviously given much thought to.

I did try to go back and look up your posts under the name of Phoenix that you had given us....but I found that there is a male dominant on this site who has had that name since '03.

Obviously this is a major crisis in your life...and I really do wish you all the best on getting this resolved. I hope that I am wrong and that law enforcement takes you seriously and gives you the assistance that you need. Beyond that, I guess that my only advice is that once this is resolved in the manner that it will ultimately be...you may want to consider doing some more work on you and try to figure out how you missed some pretty obvious red flags initially and also why when the situation become clear why you didn't simply cut and run at that point, with your obvious knowledge and insight into the subject of abuse and abusers.

I wish for you nothing but the best in future relationships and I am sorry that this one was so awful.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to phoenix1)
Profile   Post #: 40
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