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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 2:26:25 AM

colouredin

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Ahhh but we feel so much better when we think we are being alturistic, we are just here to make you guys happy

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 2:28:26 AM

MissMorrigan

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Keep thinking that Coloured and you and I are going to have a wonderful relationship - it can start on Valentine's Day

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 3:02:45 AM

ranja

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My Husband gives me pain and humiliation and i take it...greedily and i ask for more

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 3:46:11 AM

DesFIP

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He says my submission to him is a gift to him, and who am I to tell him he is wrong?

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 3:49:22 AM

CelticPrince

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

CelticPrince, how did you miss yesterday's thread?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2442785/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm#2443554

My slave's submission is not a gift.

He is the gift.

Submit is what he does for me.

dreamer,

Because of work, there are times that for days I will not be on site, at times it is weeks, so thats how!

CP

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 3:59:29 AM

CelticPrince

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Knite064

I really do wonder if this "im a gift" that keeps popping up on forums is down to the old castlerealm site.(not knocking castlerealm as it had its place but also more than its share of dungeons and dragons fantasy also)

Any relationship needs two to make work whether its lifestyle or vanilla.and whilst love and mutual respect are paramount i dont feel its healthy for one partner or the other to view themselves a gift to the other in any relationship be it lifestyle or not.
be well

knite,

I guess than Dominance is not a gift either!! thanks for your thoughts.

CP

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 4:06:49 AM

CelticPrince

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Within the contect of D/s, is submission a gift given freely or not?

One offering one's body and mind to serve another is giving of his / herself. In this way, it could be seen as a gift, but if it is honest submission that is the goal, the gift should not come with grandiose hopes of "payback" or even appreciation. That is how some give gifts. They give them to win things over in people, like gratitude, loyalty or affection. A gift is truly a gift when you can accept it without feeling entangled in some form of obligation.

So to answer your question a little more directly, I would say (ideally) submission is a gift that should be given freely to the chosen recipient.

MarcE

Thanks for some meaningful input other than Unicorn crap or fallout shelters // the observation of no strings attached is a good one!

CP

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 4:10:34 AM

CelticPrince

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quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

As I always say to this topic - I think submission is a gift, but dominance equally so.

grace,

such candor......... short and to the point!

CP

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 4:11:44 AM

MissMorrigan

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As a noun, submission is a distinguishing feature or quality, how can one possibly perceive something which has the power to be removed as a gift? Afterall, isn't a gift meant to be a gesture where no rewards/favours are gained in return?

Reality is definitely male, he has the correct danglybits but often fantasises about being a woman/having a baby. While I'll stroke his stomach and jokingly tell him we're going to name it Lyoto Shitle Tot we both are grounded enough to know that a. he's never going to have a baby unless he fertilises one of my eggs and b. when we're having one of our feminine moments I'm not going to ruin it by blatantly telling him he's fantasising b/c we both are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
He says my submission to him is a gift to him, and who am I to tell him he is wrong?

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 4:22:01 AM

CelticPrince

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

Within the contect of D/s, is submission a gift given freely or not?

For myself, and only myself....my thoughts are....

NO, my submission is not a gift.
I submit to a man because he touches something within me, not because I want to 'gift' him with something 'precious'.
What's more, I don't have to be in a relationship with him to feel that need to submit in his presence. It could just as easily be a stranger on the street as someone I have known all my life.

There is no 'gifting' involved.

Only submitting.

Pretty simple.

Irish,

Well good on ya , girl of the isle!

CP

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 4:25:32 AM

marie2

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Nah, I don't view submission as a gift. It might be an "honor" of sorts when someone trusts another with their vulnerability etc, and I do think there should be an appreciation for that level of trust, but I wouldn't call it a gift.

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 4:26:14 AM

CelticPrince

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Hey just having me in your life is a gift!

OK OK on a more serious note...Before I married my ex husband I wrote him a love letter/poem, in which I expressed that I wanted to give him something original and important, which couldn't be duplicated. I was giving him myself - my heart - and asked only that he handle it with care. It was the most meaningful thing I could think of giving him. I didn't consider this a "gift" - it just "was." When it dawned on me he was abusing what I had given to him, I took it back.

Now, I don't see my submission as some commodity that can be gifted or traded. My submission is part of the greater whole that is me. Since then, I have given myself unconditionally. I didn't consider this a gift, though, in fact I didn't give much thought to whether or not giving myself to someone would be a gift, and I still don't. Giving myself over is a choice, and in the future it will be conditional. Because of this, I don't see it as a gift. I will take myself back if mistreated. And with me comes my submission, so that isn't a gift, either.

Just some random thoughts on the subject...

NV,

Thanks for your thoughts, they read so well till I came to the conditional part; but i do know where your coming from.!

CP

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 5:09:26 AM

CatdeMedici

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I do not see it as any more a gift than two people who have mutually agreed upon a relationship arrangement that works for them.

Gifts are good until the return receipt option is played.

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 5:16:46 AM

chezzy71

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Gift??no more like an attitude in my opinion.You either want to submit freely or you don't.

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 6:56:19 AM

MarcEsadrian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

One offering one's body and mind to serve another is giving of his / herself. In this way, it could be seen as a gift, but if it is honest submission that is the goal, the gift should not come with grandiose hopes of "payback" or even appreciation. That is how some give gifts. They give them to win things over in people, like gratitude, loyalty or affection. A gift is truly a gift when you can accept it without feeling entangled in some form of obligation.

So to answer your question a little more directly, I would say (ideally) submission is a gift that should be given freely to the chosen recipient.

Nice fantasy!
In reality, if we didn’t get something positive from submission, we wouldn’t do it.

Catize,

I'm not asserting submission must be negative simply because it should given without ulterior motives other than the pleasure of serving one you adore. You can (and should) get something positive internally from your submission through your submission itself before you start considering what you're "getting". Twisting the "gift" of submission into a method of getting one's way is disingenuous from the outset. Having been on both sides of the slash, as they say, I have seen the gift that serves the giver method play out several ways, and never to a good end.

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 7:20:02 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

Within the contect of D/s, is submission a gift given freely or not?

The pleasure of having a successful relationship that includes the aspects that we desire in our interactions with one another is a gift, but it is a gift that all members of the relationship share freely with one another -- it doesn't weigh the contributions of one party over that of another.

IMO neither dominant behavior nor submissive behavior, in and of themselves, are "gifts" -- they only flourish in concert, and the idea that one is more 'special' or more worthy of special significance than the other is illogical. Dominance and submission are simply aspects of a human personality. What may be a gift to one person may easily be a PITA and extra work to someone else -- so the idea that submission is a gift, or that dominance is a gift is, to me, one more bit of hooey designed to make oneself seem extra important, and often to justify behaviors, attitudes, and actions that belie the relationship that they are -supposed- to be representing.

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 8:03:10 AM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Thanks for your thoughts, they read so well till I came to the conditional part; but i do know where your coming from.!

CP

I've been "unconditional" before. It didn't work out so well. So I wrote given where I am now, which is a state of transition. Maybe that will change in time. Maybe it won't...I really don't know. But right now I'm all I've got, and I have to look out for myself. The idea of giving over everything unconditionally leaves me thinking that leaves me too vulnerable to the pain I went through, which is not something I want to repeat. I have found there is a line within me and when it's crossed my emotions change and I pull back forever.

Perhaps in my future there will be someone who brings me to that unconditional place again, but I have no crystal ball and simply do not know. It would have to be something pretty damned special, though. But this is why I no longer identify as a slave (as I define slave to be). I'm just not willing to go through that again at this time.

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 8:25:03 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

Within the contect of D/s, is submission a gift given freely or not?

this slave believes it to be wholly subjective. it could be any number of things depending on the perspective of the individual's experience.

considering all of this slave's experiences, submission has been:
a blessing
a curse
a gift
a knee-jerk reaction
something this slave was trained to do as a wee one
the "wrong" thing to do, at the time
a choice she made within the context of an intimate relationship at age 36
a source of pain and anguish
the "right" thing to do, at the time
a source of fulfillment and ecstasy
a way to comfortably and genuinely relate to others
etc.

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 8:32:17 AM

feydeplume

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thank you for showing the "gift" from a different point of reference.

for me some of the etc. are:

freedom to express love and respect in unconventional ways
humbling
uplifting
my "happily ever after"

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RE: A gift! is it thus or not? - 2/9/2009 8:33:34 AM

YourhandMyAss

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No, my submission is not a gift, It's not given freely you must earn it,* the generic you, not you CP* and then prove you deserve to keep it, with your words and your actions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

There have been some posts that danced around this subject but unless I missed it, it has not been recently. Every day another couple of dozen folks come into CM with varied take of the subject. It is of little consequence for the pupose of this thread which side of the slash your on. What is of some import is your feelings on the subject.

Within the contect of D/s, is submission a gift given freely or not?

What say you A/all?

CP

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