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RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/11/2009 2:03:54 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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I just can't grok the concept of blackmail a part of a BDSM dynamic. Sounds very vanilla to me and something that feeds on the idea that you should be ashamed of who you are and what you like.

No thanks. I prefer that my partners be mature adults fully aware of and accepting of their sexuality and identity.


_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/11/2009 5:37:46 PM   
iSyllogism


Posts: 30
Joined: 2/8/2009
Status: offline
quote:


No thanks. I prefer that my partners be mature adults fully aware of and accepting of their sexuality and identity.


Perhaps I'm reading into it, but are you stating that anyone interested in blackmail as a fantasy is immature?

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/12/2009 5:16:46 AM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: iSyllogism

quote:


No thanks. I prefer that my partners be mature adults fully aware of and accepting of their sexuality and identity.


Perhaps I'm reading into it, but are you stating that anyone interested in blackmail as a fantasy is immature?



That's the way it came off to me too, but maybe she'll come back to clarify.

I can understand that's it's not a common desire, and not something that everyone can relate to or want to be involved in, but to make the jump that anyone with a strange, uncommon or dark fantasy is ashamed of themselves, immature and not in touch with their sexuality, is beyond me. 

To me, it's actually the opposite, it points to the fact that I AM aware of myself, my sexuality, and I'm not ashamed of it.  If I were, I wouldn't even have shared it.  At least I know where the fantasy is coming from and am in touch with the fact that it can't actually ever happen.  Likely, in my case at least, it's not about the "blackmail", but about the feelings that it involves.  Amongst a sub-culture of people who freely speak about desires like humiliation, embarassment, intimidation, sadism, masochism etc etc, it seems kind of odd that many people can't fathom a fantasy that actually includes all of those common threads. 

Carve your initials into my back, choke the oxygen from my body till I pass out, beat me until I'm welted, publically humiliate me, use me like an object, hold me down and force me, rape me, abduct me, put me in a cage, make me cry, nail my tits to a 2x4, put clamps on my labia and hang 50 lb weights off them, spit in my face, piss in my mouth, burn me with candle wax, use me as a footstool and an ashtray, and make me lick your shoes clean, but don't ever mindfuck me into compliance, because that would be REALLY sick. 

(in reply to iSyllogism)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/12/2009 5:53:48 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: iSyllogism

quote:


No thanks. I prefer that my partners be mature adults fully aware of and accepting of their sexuality and identity.


Perhaps I'm reading into it, but are you stating that anyone interested in blackmail as a fantasy is immature?



I'm saying that for me, I need partners who don't need such fantasies and dynamic because they are secure in their sexuality and identity. For me, needing to be forced to stay in a relationship by any means is not acceptable in my household.

You do what you like but it won't work for me and mine.

Fantasy isn't the same as blackmail -- if you want to play out a scene where your partner pretends to blackmail you, have fun with that, could be a hot time -- but giving someone information that you are ashamed of and worried others will find out about and then letting them hold it over you isn't a fantasy any more.

We see these and other "fantasies" turned realities all the time on these boards. People thinking with their genitals instead of their brains make decisions that they later whine about and complain about. People need to THINK before they start giving out information or money or time to strangers.

If someone can't or won't THINK about the differences between fantasy and reality, then yes, they are not mature enough to be in a dynamic with me. Go find another person.


_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to iSyllogism)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/12/2009 6:02:05 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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Wanting a fantasy is one thing, marie2.

Following one's genitals and making a fantasy reality may be foolish. Depends on the people, the fantasy, and their level of trust.

I don't want or need partners who require force to stay with me -- perhaps some of you consider love and a sense of duty to be force. Blackmail is one such type of force that I can't have in my life.

You all have whatever you like but don't expect everyone else to say that will work for them.

Maybe I can't grok it because I'm a top or maybe it's because I'm a survivor of forced sexuality and relationships in my life. There's lots of things I don't grok and I'm damned sure there are lots of things you don't grok either.

And so what? Don't get into a relationship with me. I'm sure lots of folks think I'm too fat for them or too white for them or too old for them or too young for them or too whatever for them. I'm sure I think the same about them.

Great, more information to make sure we don't attempt to get into a dynamic together.

Why do folks seem to care so much about how others view or understand or don't understand their particular fetishes or fantasies or personal dynamics? Why do the words of strangers mean so much to so many of us? -- note the "us" meaning I'm including myself.

Damn that seems so vanilla and mundane. I need to get over it. Do you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

quote:

ORIGINAL: iSyllogism

quote:


No thanks. I prefer that my partners be mature adults fully aware of and accepting of their sexuality and identity.


Perhaps I'm reading into it, but are you stating that anyone interested in blackmail as a fantasy is immature?



That's the way it came off to me too, but maybe she'll come back to clarify.

I can understand that's it's not a common desire, and not something that everyone can relate to or want to be involved in, but to make the jump that anyone with a strange, uncommon or dark fantasy is ashamed of themselves, immature and not in touch with their sexuality, is beyond me. 

To me, it's actually the opposite, it points to the fact that I AM aware of myself, my sexuality, and I'm not ashamed of it.  If I were, I wouldn't even have shared it.  At least I know where the fantasy is coming from and am in touch with the fact that it can't actually ever happen.  Likely, in my case at least, it's not about the "blackmail", but about the feelings that it involves.  Amongst a sub-culture of people who freely speak about desires like humiliation, embarassment, intimidation, sadism, masochism etc etc, it seems kind of odd that many people can't fathom a fantasy that actually includes all of those common threads. 

Carve your initials into my back, choke the oxygen from my body till I pass out, beat me until I'm welted, publically humiliate me, use me like an object, hold me down and force me, rape me, abduct me, put me in a cage, make me cry, nail my tits to a 2x4, put clamps on my labia and hang 50 lb weights off them, spit in my face, piss in my mouth, burn me with candle wax, use me as a footstool and an ashtray, and make me lick your shoes clean, but don't ever mindfuck me into compliance, because that would be REALLY sick. 



< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 2/12/2009 6:11:58 AM >


_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/12/2009 7:10:40 AM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo


I don't want or need partners who require force to stay with me -- perhaps some of you consider love and a sense of duty to be force. Blackmail is one such type of force that I can't have in my life.





I don't "think with my genitals", I think with my brain, even when my genitals are involved.   And I would imagine there are many more like me, who engage common sense before acting on a sexual desire.   I don't know if you realize it, TammyJo, but you've made a lot of implications here that are not only innaccurate, but that read like derision. 

Sometimes I fantasize about being a millionare too, or sinking my teeth into a juicy steak and a baked potato.  It's not always about sexuality, or it's not always ALL about sex.  For me it starts with the emotional aspects, and despite that a couple of us have shared our personal feelings out here in an effort to offer understanding, you seem to be looking right past it and holding onto the assumption that it's all about using "force" and "blackmail" to keep someone in a relationship.  That's like saying if you like knifeplay, it must mean that your partner has to hold you at knifepoint in order to keep you in the relationship. It's about the emotions (or the headfuck for some) that are brought to the forefront that are simply being couched in a particular scenerio.  In a basic way, this is no different than people enjoy a Teacher/schoolgirl scenerio for instance, or a kidnap/victim scenerio, or the more common master/slave scenerio.  It's ALL a simulation to some extent.   We could view all of it as consentual fantasy that we've turn into reality. 

Just food for thought:  How many people trust their master with their bank accounts and allow them to control the money in whatever way they see fit?  Is it really that far of a stretch to be vulnerable to someone you trust with your information and allow them to use it however they see fit?  

I'm not here to convince anyone of anything, or to convert anyone.   My goal in writing on this thread was to hopefully offer some insight, and show some other angles to those (especially the OP) who were trying to fathom this.  It certainly isn't the first time it's come up and it won't be the last.  I know my mind has been opened on these boards more than once about things that I once made assumptions about, even if I'd never participate in those things myself. 

At any rate, this has run it's course for me.  I hope someone got something out of it.




(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/12/2009 11:02:56 AM   
iSyllogism


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I just can't grok the concept of (blackmail, humiliation, spanking, femdom, M/s, bondage, poly, exhibitionism, crossdressing, collar & leash, forced bi, clamps, CBT) a part of a BDSM dynamic. Sounds very vanilla to me and something that feeds on the idea that you should be ashamed of who you are and what you like.

No thanks. I prefer that my partners be mature adults fully aware of and accepting of their sexuality and identity.



(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/12/2009 1:06:16 PM   
welcomerain


Posts: 63
Joined: 5/28/2008
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

Perhaps I'm reading into it, but are you stating that anyone interested in blackmail as a fantasy is immature?


I read it as a reference to the fantasies someone mentioned above, where someone takes pictures of you in sissywear or kinkwear and uses them as a hold over you. I think most people keep a relatively low profile at work or in public, but if the main appeal of the "kink" is the fear of being discovered, then it is to a degree immature.

Having said that, by "immature", I don't mean wrong. I just mean that as you become more experienced you discover that actual discovery almost never works out in the real world the way it does in fantasies. When I first appeared dressed up in public, the first thing I realized is that practically no one cared. Any embarrassment I might have felt pretty much disappeared once I realized that. On the other extreme, if you live where people are likely to care, being embarrassed might be the least of your troubles.

I feel the same way about blackmail. It can be an enormously powerful fantasy, but I think it would be extremely difficult to set up a real relationship with that dynamic. Either the "compromising pictures" are something that will not cause any real problems if the threatened exposure actually happens, in which case the blackmail threat loses its teeth the moment you realize that; or else the blackmail is almost certainly illegal.

And when you think about it, what could someone possibly blackmail you with? Did you embezzle money from your company? Cheat on your wife? Have an abortion? Having a few kinks no one knows about won't do it anymore. David Vitter wears diapers and got elected to the U.S. Senate. I think most people would draw the line at actually doing something they'd need to keep quiet, and the "secrets" they do have are likely to be pretty innocuous. Anyone who has done something that might be worth blackmailing them for probably has bigger problems than a blackmail fetish.

Not really trying to take digs at people here. Blackmail can be an awesome fantasy, but a pain in the neck to make happen. If someone asked me how to do blackmail right, I'd probably say "write a novel".

(in reply to iSyllogism)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/12/2009 3:46:35 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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Other than responding to your comment above which I note you only cite very little of my reply to, I was replying to the OP an only the OP.

Sorry if you and iSyllogism thought my first thread was in response to you. It wasn't.


quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo


I don't want or need partners who require force to stay with me -- perhaps some of you consider love and a sense of duty to be force. Blackmail is one such type of force that I can't have in my life.





I don't "think with my genitals", I think with my brain, even when my genitals are involved.   And I would imagine there are many more like me, who engage common sense before acting on a sexual desire.   I don't know if you realize it, TammyJo, but you've made a lot of implications here that are not only innaccurate, but that read like derision. 

Sometimes I fantasize about being a millionare too, or sinking my teeth into a juicy steak and a baked potato.  It's not always about sexuality, or it's not always ALL about sex.  For me it starts with the emotional aspects, and despite that a couple of us have shared our personal feelings out here in an effort to offer understanding, you seem to be looking right past it and holding onto the assumption that it's all about using "force" and "blackmail" to keep someone in a relationship.  That's like saying if you like knifeplay, it must mean that your partner has to hold you at knifepoint in order to keep you in the relationship. It's about the emotions (or the headfuck for some) that are brought to the forefront that are simply being couched in a particular scenerio.  In a basic way, this is no different than people enjoy a Teacher/schoolgirl scenerio for instance, or a kidnap/victim scenerio, or the more common master/slave scenerio.  It's ALL a simulation to some extent.   We could view all of it as consentual fantasy that we've turn into reality. 

Just food for thought:  How many people trust their master with their bank accounts and allow them to control the money in whatever way they see fit?  Is it really that far of a stretch to be vulnerable to someone you trust with your information and allow them to use it however they see fit?  

I'm not here to convince anyone of anything, or to convert anyone.   My goal in writing on this thread was to hopefully offer some insight, and show some other angles to those (especially the OP) who were trying to fathom this.  It certainly isn't the first time it's come up and it won't be the last.  I know my mind has been opened on these boards more than once about things that I once made assumptions about, even if I'd never participate in those things myself. 

At any rate, this has run it's course for me.  I hope someone got something out of it.






I hope you got something out of it at least since you seemed determined to think my first response in this thread was about you.


_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/12/2009 3:49:15 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: iSyllogism

I just can't grok the concept of (blackmail, humiliation, spanking, femdom, M/s, bondage, poly, exhibitionism, crossdressing, collar & leash, forced bi, clamps, CBT) a part of a BDSM dynamic. Sounds very vanilla to me and something that feeds on the idea that you should be ashamed of who you are and what you like.

No thanks. I prefer that my partners be mature adults fully aware of and accepting of their sexuality and identity.





Pretty much. Yes, almost any of us could say the above. When someone replies to the first post in a thread I don't assume they are replying to anyone other than that first post.

Sorry that you and marie2 thought I was replying to you in my first post.

Don't assume everyone will understand your kinks and your interests because that's a set-up for disappointment.

Just share your own opinions and experiences and stop worrying about what others say or think. The only people that should matter are you and your partner(s).


_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to iSyllogism)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/12/2009 6:16:56 PM   
iSyllogism


Posts: 30
Joined: 2/8/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
Don't assume everyone will understand your kinks and your interests because that's a set-up for disappointment.

Just share your own opinions and experiences and stop worrying about what others say or think. The only people that should matter are you and your partner(s).


I'm not worrying about what others think, was only trying to demonstrate that those kind of generalizations could be applied to any one activity. It's neither here nor there,  I suppose.

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/12/2009 7:39:49 PM   
SanDieoSub


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Joined: 9/26/2007
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I recall viewing a profile on here, unfortunately I cannot remember the username, but it was a woman from San Diego, listed as a dominant....  From what i recall she found out that her husband was cheating on her without him knowning that she knew.  So she denied him sex for a little while, and convinced him into wearing some painties and sucking a strap on to get sex.  She somehow got pictures of this and the next day threatend to send the pictures to his family and friends.  She proceeded to do some of the cruelest stuff to him imaginable... Tied him to a chair in the basement and made him watch gay porn for hours at a time, and bringing him upstairs to watch her and her knew boyfriend have sex.  I wish I could remember all of it, there was no mercy, and he was helpless...  Does anyone recall seeing this?



(in reply to iSyllogism)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/13/2009 11:44:05 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: iSyllogism

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
Don't assume everyone will understand your kinks and your interests because that's a set-up for disappointment.

Just share your own opinions and experiences and stop worrying about what others say or think. The only people that should matter are you and your partner(s).


I'm not worrying about what others think, was only trying to demonstrate that those kind of generalizations could be applied to any one activity. It's neither here nor there,  I suppose.



I wasn't making generalizations. I was stating my opinion on things from my life.

Why is it so difficult for people to see the difference?

If I wanted to make a generalization, I damn well know how to do it and it would began by saying "All X is Y" and not include anything such as "I think" or even the word "I" or "me" or "my" or "mine".


_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to iSyllogism)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/13/2009 11:48:45 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SanDieoSub

I recall viewing a profile on here, unfortunately I cannot remember the username, but it was a woman from San Diego, listed as a dominant....  From what i recall she found out that her husband was cheating on her without him knowning that she knew.  So she denied him sex for a little while, and convinced him into wearing some painties and sucking a strap on to get sex.  She somehow got pictures of this and the next day threatend to send the pictures to his family and friends.  She proceeded to do some of the cruelest stuff to him imaginable... Tied him to a chair in the basement and made him watch gay porn for hours at a time, and bringing him upstairs to watch her and her knew boyfriend have sex.  I wish I could remember all of it, there was no mercy, and he was helpless...  Does anyone recall seeing this?





I don't recall this particular thing but we've seen this thing over and over and over again. Cases where people claim to be doing BDSM when they are actually doing illegal activities. Hell, my former brother-in-law used to rape and beat my sister then say "It's just a little SM baby." Even when he beat her so hard that she lost their baby he used that line -- he had a little bit of knowledge about some alternative sex practices and added them to his psychological abuse bag of tricks. He's not alone in this.

And that folks, is why I have such strong opinions about what is and is not BDSM in my definition and my world.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to SanDieoSub)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/14/2009 1:32:27 PM   
iSyllogism


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Joined: 2/8/2009
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I don't think the kind of blackmail that is actually used to destroy someone's life is a good thing.

Using it to enhance a mind fuck or enhance a scene that both enjoy? That is good.

(in reply to SanDieoSub)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/14/2009 5:27:22 PM   
LovingMistress45


Posts: 271
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While I haven't done a blackmail scene myself I don't think it is anymore a risk than anyother faked criminal activity. I saw the arguement that the crime occurs at the time of making the demand that actual action is not needed. This is true, but by the same arguement that you can't rape someone that consented to sex, can you really blackmail someone that has requested it?

Personally I think the risk of legal involvement is less in a blackmail scene than a rape or kidnapping scene. The latter 2 involve a lot more chance of being witnessed by a 3rd party that reports it. Blackmail being reported would mean the one requesting it reported it.

I just want to point out that almost all us engage in "illegal" activities in this lifestyle. If you life in the southern US most likely there are still laws on the book making sodomy illegal - the act itself - so therefore you can't consent to it. One of those old laws used against gay males - although quite popular in hetero couples.  In most states you can't consent to assult - well unless your a boxer :)

I personally love doing a good MF on a sub and so I can see the appeal of blackmailing (in a consentual context) not sure I would do it. But I am of the belief that as long as what occurs is between consenting adults - go for it if it is your kink.  There are a lot of things that I will never do, but that doesn't make them wrong for someone else.

< Message edited by LovingMistress45 -- 2/14/2009 5:40:17 PM >

(in reply to beeble)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/14/2009 5:47:42 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: coolstud

Stay focused on the subject topic at hand--and not on off-subject generalizations that never were made.  The issue was the want for engaging in blackmail fantasies.  As TammyJo correctly pointed out, the heart of the matter is an underlying humiliation that stems from not feeling fully integrated and accepting of your sexuality and an associated uncomfortable feeling in it. 


Possibly. I would tend to generalize things quite a bit more; blackmail is just one of many types of coercion and force that can be applied to make someone obey against their will.

Tammyjo has very stringent standards of "correct" obedience and submission to her will; essentially she wants a very abject surrender which involves no role-playing of resistance or coercion. Judging from things she has said in the past, I would guess that this is because she has had bad experiences with force/coercion in her own past which make it impossible to view these things as play or fun.

Not all men and women feel this way, and declaring that some sort of roleplay is a priori for people who are not "mature" about their sexuality, who have emotional problems or who are in some way ashamed or uncomfortable about their lifestyle is a little far-fetched, imho. Even taking as a given that not everyone is equally "out" about their sexuality or lifestyle, and that being an In-Your-Face Kinkasaurus is not by definition more "mature" than any other choice, the assumption that people enjoy a role-playing fantasy only because some sort of emotional problem is pretty damned hypocritical, coming from someone who plays a lot of rpg's. Shall we call Dr. Freud about someone's desire to play a Mighty Warrior or a Magical Druid and assess the "maturity" of this form of wish fulfillment next? Or can we possibly just accept that fantasies are fantasies, and some of them give us pleasure and others don't?

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to coolstud)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/15/2009 11:41:51 AM   
AngelicaGoddess


Posts: 61
Joined: 10/28/2006
Status: offline
If I know the person, I know it's his kink and the rules are set upfront, I find it very very hot. It's fantasy play and both players have to know each other really well and both have to be aware of the fact that the other one is sane and that there are rules (often unspoken), it's a matter of trust, but then most things in our life-style are....

(in reply to beeble)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/16/2009 8:42:35 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama


quote:

ORIGINAL: coolstud

Stay focused on the subject topic at hand--and not on off-subject generalizations that never were made.  The issue was the want for engaging in blackmail fantasies.  As TammyJo correctly pointed out, the heart of the matter is an underlying humiliation that stems from not feeling fully integrated and accepting of your sexuality and an associated uncomfortable feeling in it. 


Possibly. I would tend to generalize things quite a bit more; blackmail is just one of many types of coercion and force that can be applied to make someone obey against their will.

Tammyjo has very stringent standards of "correct" obedience and submission to her will; essentially she wants a very abject surrender which involves no role-playing of resistance or coercion. Judging from things she has said in the past, I would guess that this is because she has had bad experiences with force/coercion in her own past which make it impossible to view these things as play or fun.

Not all men and women feel this way, and declaring that some sort of roleplay is a priori for people who are not "mature" about their sexuality, who have emotional problems or who are in some way ashamed or uncomfortable about their lifestyle is a little far-fetched, imho. Even taking as a given that not everyone is equally "out" about their sexuality or lifestyle, and that being an In-Your-Face Kinkasaurus is not by definition more "mature" than any other choice, the assumption that people enjoy a role-playing fantasy only because some sort of emotional problem is pretty damned hypocritical, coming from someone who plays a lot of rpg's. Shall we call Dr. Freud about someone's desire to play a Mighty Warrior or a Magical Druid and assess the "maturity" of this form of wish fulfillment next? Or can we possibly just accept that fantasies are fantasies, and some of them give us pleasure and others don't?


Nor did I speak for anyone but myself and what I would accept and how I view things. Why is this so difficult for people to understand.

As for how my household operates very very very few of you will ever find out because I doubt very much I will ever meet any of you and have you come visit us.

Fantasies are fine it's when folks cross that line and then bitch about the consequences that I have a problem with hearing about. Have fun playing at blackmail and all such other things (we certainly do) but don't complain to me if it crosses the line into reality and you discover you didn't move slowly enough or carefully enough to find a more trustworthy partner.

Remember the OP was about people out of the blue emailing someone and asking them to blackmail them. I don't think that is safe and I don't consider that to be the request of a mature person in my book. If that is mature and acceptable for others, take note and reach out to the appropriate audience for your request.


_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: blackmail done right // blackmail done wrong - 2/16/2009 9:29:12 AM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline
As to legality, here's Ohio's law:
2905.11 Extortion.       (A) No person, with purpose to obtain any valuable thing or valuable benefit or to induce another to do an unlawful act, shall do any of the following:       (1) Threaten to commit any felony;       (2) Threaten to commit any offense of violence;       (3) Violate section 2903.21 or 2903.22 of the Revised Code;       (4) Utter or threaten any calumny against any person;       (5) Expose or threaten to expose any matter tending to subject any person to hatred, contempt, or ridicule, or to damage any person's personal or business repute, or to impair any person's credit.       (B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of extortion, a felony of the third degree.       (C) As used in this section, "threat" includes a direct threat and a threat by innuendo.       Effective Date: 07-01-1996

2905.12 Coercion.       (A) No person, with purpose to coerce another into taking or refraining from action concerning which the other person has a legal freedom of choice, shall do any of the following:       (1) Threaten to commit any offense;       (2) Utter or threaten any calumny against any person;       (3) Expose or threaten to expose any matter tending to subject any person to hatred, contempt, or ridicule, to damage any person's personal or business repute, or to impair any person's credit;       (4) Institute or threaten criminal proceedings against any person;       (5) Take, withhold, or threaten to take or withhold official action, or cause or threaten to cause official action to be taken or withheld.       (B) Divisions (A)(4) and (5) of this section shall not be construed to prohibit a prosecutor or court from doing any of the following in good faith and in the interests of justice:       (1) Offering or agreeing to grant, or granting immunity from prosecution pursuant to section 2945.44 of the Revised Code;       (2) In return for a plea of guilty to one or more offenses charged or to one or more other or lesser offenses, or in return for the testimony of the accused in a case to which the accused is not a party, offering or agreeing to dismiss, or dismissing one or more charges pending against an accused, or offering or agreeing to impose, or imposing a certain sentence or modification of sentence;       (3) Imposing a community control sanction on certain conditions, including without limitation requiring the offender to make restitution or redress to the victim of the offense.       (C) It is an affirmative defense to a charge under division (A)(3), (4), or (5) of this section that the actor's conduct was a reasonable response to the circumstances that occasioned it, and that the actor's purpose was limited to any of the following:       (1) Compelling another to refrain from misconduct or to desist from further misconduct;       (2) Preventing or redressing a wrong or injustice;       (3) Preventing another from taking action for which the actor reasonably believed the other person to be disqualified;       (4) Compelling another to take action that the actor reasonably believed the other person to be under a duty to take.       (D) Whoever violates this section is guilty of coercion, a misdemeanor of the second degree.       (E) As used in this section:       (1) "Threat" includes a direct threat and a threat by innuendo.       (2) "Community control sanction" has the same meaning as in section 2929.01 of the Revised Code.


So although it's probably not extortion, since having somebody do your laundry might not be a "valuable" things (depending on how much you hate doing laundry), it  would be coercion, in terms of threatening to publish stuff which otherwise you could freely publish, since it's no crime to tell everyone that a person is a sissy, or whatever. The crime is forcing the person to obey you, by threat. State laws vary, but do tend to be pretty consistent with such common crimes.

You could enforce the "financial" aspect of slavery, however, with the "debt" scenario. There is nothing illegal about that, and a court is not going to be impressed with a contnetion that "I just wanted to be her slave, and don't really owe her the money", when you have a signed and witnessed note. Since I'm virtually certain that many slaves have done this (including me), and we've never had a single news story about it, (and this would be juicy stuff which the media would love), I'm confident that this has happened many times. In my case, I agreed that I owed her $1000, but the note would be forgiven if I did her laundry, nails, massaged her feet and legs, and any other household tasks she wished, for some period of time I dont' remember. It was incredibly exciting to sign that, even though I knew she would never enforce it, and if she did, I'd certainly not try to "explain" it to a court. My reputation is worth far more than $1000. You'd need to be specific about the work, not just "I'll obey her like a slave", but otherwise, it would be very enforceable, in my view. It's not coercion, since she's not threatening to expose  you. She's simply able to sue  you for money you agreed that you owed her, if you don't "work off" the loan, in whatever way you most enjoy slavery. I really enjoyed it. It was incredibly exciting to know that I was "forced" to obey her, despite the reality that it was totally my idea.

So thrre are ways to enforce submission, if you are imaginative, and know what the law is, but they will be limited to financial and property scenarios. A simple prenuptial agreement that in the case of a divorce, each party keeps whatever property is in his or her name, and that if one party gives the other spouse property during the marriage, that becoemes the other spouses separate property, would keep a husband very obedient to the wife, once he transfers all of his property to her, and all of his income, since in the case of a divorce, he would walk away with absolutely nothing, so long as she kept all property and bank accounts in her name. You could even agree that if the husband sues for divorce, he must pay her spousal support for x years at x amount, but a court wouldn't enforce that if it was not appropriate for the incomes of the parties at the time of the divorce, adn the duration of the marriage.

You could even specify that the parties agree that the husband's role will be to take care of the home, as the homemaker, and that's what their expectations are of the parties when they marry, despite that both work. That would have nothing to do with what happens in a divorce, but would give the slave some additonal erotic thrills.

(in reply to beeble)
Profile   Post #: 40
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