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RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/25/2009 11:41:54 AM

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An employee has no direct vote in congress. Given that our senate and house would be the ones passing this bill and having it signed into law by the President, if the employee doesn't disclose who they vote for and (does the smart thing) doesn't bring up politics at work, is the employee still helping to solve the employers problems?

(in reply to xBullx)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/25/2009 11:51:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

Caveat. If ones interest is not focussed on society but rather the majority of the individuals that make it up, then it is possible to put the economy first. So long as you're happy to see a minority of individuals lose out. A strong economy will benefit some individuals more than others. So long as the winners have no moral, ethical or legal obligation to the losers then it is possible to argue the primacy of economy.

I was about to respond to some of the posts here, but I think this sums it up very well.

Businesses in the past recognized that they had an obligation to society.

And this was not just philanthropy. Henry Ford paid his employees well above standard wages because he recognized that his employees were also his customers.

(in reply to philosophy)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/25/2009 12:20:08 PM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach
Oh - and Ken - some of us didn't have Family Money to rely on for startup costs - we did it out of our own savings. No family business to inherit, either - my parents were absolutely Not the hands on types - mom was an accountant until she got to ill to work, dad was a computer programer until his stroke forced him into retirement.

And as I said if I ever work for someone who actually did what the letter claimed I'd listen to the owner's tales of woe. In my 42 years I've never worked for such a business except when I was self employed and I happily payed all my taxes without complaint then.

But see, you didn't pay all your taxes...your employer paid half. And if you came to work for me, you would be working for someone who built up his own practice alongside his father and paid my way into the clinic so that I could own it in the same manner he did. If you are 42 and started work at 16, then you may well have spent 26 years only working for family members who "inherited" the business. But like it or not, twas their family that went through the original hell and strife and worry of starting the business...not you.

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/25/2009 12:25:47 PM

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To 'rulemylife'. I also believe that Henry Ford called in the national guard when his valued employees wanted to start a union. If I remember correctly, some were killed...

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/25/2009 12:44:38 PM

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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach
Oh - and Ken - some of us didn't have Family Money to rely on for startup costs - we did it out of our own savings. No family business to inherit, either - my parents were absolutely Not the hands on types - mom was an accountant until she got to ill to work, dad was a computer programer until his stroke forced him into retirement.

And as I said if I ever work for someone who actually did what the letter claimed I'd listen to the owner's tales of woe. In my 42 years I've never worked for such a business except when I was self employed and I happily payed all my taxes without complaint then.

But see, you didn't pay all your taxes...your employer paid half. And if you came to work for me, you would be working for someone who built up his own practice alongside his father and paid my way into the clinic so that I could own it in the same manner he did. If you are 42 and started work at 16, then you may well have spent 26 years only working for family members who "inherited" the business. But like it or not, twas their family that went through the original hell and strife and worry of starting the business...not you.

So if one person does something others are entitled to special treatment due to an accident of fate? Not from me they aren't. So if someone wants to bitch and moan about paying the same taxes I paid when I was self employed because of how hard they had it they had better have had it at least as hard as I had it.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/25/2009 1:29:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

But see, you didn't pay all your taxes...your employer paid half.

No, employers didn't.

They, and you, paid the tax burden that was assigned to them.

To suggest that an employer pays half of his employees' taxes is a ridiculous misinterpretation of tax law.

quote:

And if you came to work for me, you would be working for someone who built up his own practice alongside his father and paid my way into the clinic so that I could own it in the same manner he did. If you are 42 and started work at 16, then you may well have spent 26 years only working for family members who "inherited" the business. But like it or not, twas their family that went through the original hell and strife and worry of starting the business...not you.

You built up your practice alongside your father.

And you do not think you benefited from the fact there was a practice to begin with?

Another "rags-to-riches" story.

Kind of like Donald Trump, whose father built half the housing in New York, yet believes himself to be a "self-made" man.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 2/25/2009 1:34:55 PM >

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/25/2009 1:56:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

To All My Valued Employees

Thanks very much, boss, but am I really valued? Last Christmas my bonus consisted of a 'Merry Christmas' by e-mail.....sent by your secretary. I was moved to thank you in person; I was really pleased you'd noticed me. It sounds ridiculous coming from a grown man, I know, but you know we all like to be appreciated. Imagine my surprise when I thanked you and you replied: "who are you? and why are you breathing my oxygen?".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

There have been some rumblings around the office about the future of this company, and more specifically, your job. As you know, the economy has changed for the worse and presents many challenges. However, the good news is this: The economy doesn't pose a threat to your job. What does threaten your job however, is the changing political landscape in this country.

You know what boss, I may be a lowly serf, but I have this theory that politicians are pretty much irrelevant in the modern era as they're the mere subjects of the big business kings; though I know I really shouldn't be challenging your opinions because as a business owner you're the authority on every subject from politics to cheese.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

However, let me tell you some little tidbits of fact which might help you decide what is in your best interests.

Very kind of you, boss, but between you and I, you're coming across as a total wanker who thinks because he's the boss at work he is the boss outside of work. The moment you step outside of the office you're just another bloke. Any chance you can cut a long story short because this patronising show really isn't that interesting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

First, while it is easy to spew rhetoric that casts employers against employees, you have to understand that for every business owner there is a back story. This back story is often neglected and overshadowed by what you see and hear. Sure, you see me park my Mercedes outside. You've seen my big home at last years Christmas party. I'm sure; all these flashy icons of luxury conjure up some idealized thoughts about my life.

You couldn't be further from the truth, boss. We were talking about this last week, and the general consenus was: there's far more to life than cars and houses. You're not that special.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

My diet consisted of Ramen Pride noodles because every dollar I spent went back into this company. I drove a rusty Toyota Corolla with a defective transmission. I didn't have time to date. Often times, I stayed home on weekends, while my friends went out drinking and partying.

Must have been tough eh. Your choice, mate. What? Do you think this adds credibility to your political views? In actual fact, I'm sat here wondering why a bloke, who in his own words had no life while he was building his business, is attempting to lecture me about the economy and politics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

So, while you physically arrive at the office at 9am, mentally check in at about noon

Ah yes, just as I suspected: you really value your employees. Before I arrive at work, I've already done an hour's work, and when I leave I do an another hour. At weekends, I do a couple of hours, too. That's 12 hours work for which I don't get paid - you know, on the house. While I'm at work, I'm going hell for leather all day with the only break being an half an hour lunch break. You wouldn't know, though, because you're too busy making snap decisions about the work ethic of your employees and telling the world what a hero you are because you've built a business and made some sacrifices.

I don't do the extra hours for you of course, boss, because you're a wanker; I do those for myself because I have drive, too. I want to learn. I have a family, too, and the best way for me to take care of them is to progress in my career. Come to think of it, you haven't sat down with me for two years to discuss my progression - perhaps you're busy telling anyone who'll listen what a hero you are. Oh, and if you think I'm doing nothing for three hours at work, then why don't you manage the situation, nobhead? Isn't it your job to get the best out of me? I mentioned this letter to my brother in law who's a business owner, too, and he was adamant that when he feels his employees aren't being productive, he manages the situation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

I eat, and breathe this company every minute of the day.

Boss, you're boring. This is worse than a slow, painful death. I resign.

P.S. I've set fire to all of the financial receipts for the year.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Truthiness)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/25/2009 2:26:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

To 'rulemylife'. I also believe that Henry Ford called in the national guard when his valued employees wanted to start a union. If I remember correctly, some were killed...

Yes, you are partially right, except I don't think it was the national guard but independent thugs he hired, and I don't think anyone was killed.

But these are two separate issues.

Ford did pay his employees well above standard wage on the theory that they were his best customers.

He also hated unions, but for different reasons that most business owners today do:

Henry Ford - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedi Ford was adamantly against labor unions. He explained his views on unions in Chapter 18 of My Life and Work.[21

He thought they were too heavily influenced by some leaders who, despite their ostensible good motives, would end up doing more harm than good for workers. Most wanted to restrict productivity as a means to foster employment, but Ford saw this as self-defeating because, in his view, productivity was necessary for any economic prosperity to exist.
He believed that productivity gains that obviated certain jobs would nevertheless stimulate the larger economy and thus grow new jobs elsewhere, whether within the same corporation or in others. Ford also believed that union leaders (most particularly Leninist-leaning ones) had a perverse incentive to foment perpetual socio-economic crisis as a way to maintain their own power.

Meanwhile, he believed that smart managers had an incentive to do right by their workers, because doing so would actually maximize their own profits. (Ford did acknowledge, however, that many managers were basically too bad at managing to understand this fact.) But Ford believed that eventually, if good managers such as himself could successfully fend off the attacks of misguided people from both left and right (i.e., both socialists and bad-manager reactionaries), the good managers would create a socio-economic system wherein neither bad management nor bad unions could find enough support to continue existing.

(in reply to servantforuse)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/25/2009 2:31:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Very kind of you, boss, but between you and I, you're coming across as a total wanker who thinks because he's the boss at work he is the boss outside of work.

Then you would be missing the point, because there is nothing there to suggest anyone thought that.

quote:

You couldn't be further from the truth, boss. We were talking about this last week, and the general consenus was: there's far more to life than cars and houses. You're not that special.

Then you're missing the point...noone suggested that anyone was special. However, it is quite factual that many people have a very skewed, and limited view on the lifestyle of many business owners, and only see the luxury and not the other side...I've met many people like that myself. Just because you're ignorant of those people doesn't make them not exist.

quote:

Must have been tough eh. Your choice, mate. What? Do you think this adds credibility to your political views? In actual fact, I'm sat here wondering why a bloke, who in his own words had no life while he was building his business, is attempting to lecture me about the economy and politics.

Just why do you think someone like that would have no life? Maybe, uhh, because they're having to deal with politics and the economy to build their business? Did such a simple concept really go over your head?

quote:

You wouldn't know, though, because you're too busy making snap decisions about the work ethic of your employees and telling the world what a hero you are because you've built a business and made some sacrifices.

Do I detect a bit of hypocrisy here? Taking someone to task for the same tone you're dealing out?

quote:

I don't do the extra hours for you of course, boss, because you're a wanker; I do those for myself because I have drive, too. I want to learn.

If this is true, then what you're responding to wasn't directed at you, was it? Why do you seem to think it was?

quote:

Boss, you're boring. This is worse than a slow, painful death. I resign.

P.S. I've set fire to all of the financial receipts for the year.

Good riddance, and fortunately you missed the computer copies on his home network. ;)

(Edit: Would have been a more amusing response if it didn't so spectacularly miss the point, and to do it while being so condescending adds to the irony).

< Message edited by Truthiness -- 2/25/2009 2:32:57 PM >

(in reply to NorthernGent)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/25/2009 2:57:30 PM

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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

If this is true, then what you're responding to wasn't directed at you, was it? Why do you seem to think it was?

Oh, I dunno, something to do with the opening of your letter.....

To all my valued employees

But, on the plus side, your rant about me sitting on my arse and doing nothing for the entire morning, has really helped me move forward. I now work for a company who care about my progess and value my work, which is great because I've always held ambitions of thriving in the workplace. In return, I've just won them a new contract, which will guarantee revenue to fund investment in new machinery and help drive the business forward.

Anyway, good luck with the business - I hear you'll need it as 5 other employees walked out after not taking too kindly to your "you don't switch your brain on until 12" comment. Valued indeed.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Truthiness)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/26/2009 10:04:22 AM

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Joined: 11/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

If this is true, then what you're responding to wasn't directed at you, was it? Why do you seem to think it was?

Oh, I dunno, something to do with the opening of your letter.....

To all my valued employees

So, by that logic, if a government leader where to address the people and say "The crime has to stop!" you'd be offended at being called a criminal?

(in reply to NorthernGent)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/26/2009 12:42:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

If this is true, then what you're responding to wasn't directed at you, was it? Why do you seem to think it was?

Oh, I dunno, something to do with the opening of your letter.....

To all my valued employees

So, by that logic, if a government leader where to address the people and say "The crime has to stop!" you'd be offended at being called a criminal?

Don't care. The letter was addressed to 'all employees', and I'm an employee - simple as that.

The letter smacks to me of someone who has never set foot in a business, let alone owned one. Any manager worth his salt knows that the business is nothing without its employees, and disrespecting them by suggesting they don't lift a finger for the entire morning, is far from a means of keeping the employees happy.

Anyway boss, you're not 'living and breathing' your business while you're on here. Get back to work, else I'll have the office lasses bully you.

Edited to add.....

The equivalent being the government leader stating: "to all of my people"......and going on to say: "while you're out committing crime, I'm living a life of inner piety", which of course would lead to everyone falling over themselves laughing at the leader/boss.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 2/26/2009 12:54:53 PM >

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Truthiness)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/26/2009 12:56:36 PM

Posts: 251
Joined: 11/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Don't care. The letter was addressed to 'all employees', and I'm an employee - simple as that.

Psst. It's normal for speeches as such to be addressed to an entire audience, with specifics within the speech that don't apply to everyone. I thought this was common knowledge. I see it commonly in managerial meetings. "Hey everyone - There's been some issues with x report being on time/formatted wrong. Please fix."

Common logic tells you that those among "everyone" that didn't have the issue aren't the ones being reprimanded for it. And I can't believe I'm actually explaining such a simple concept.

That said, seeing as I've already seen business owners close up shop for the reasons the letter in the OP addressed, I'd say there's some merit there.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/26/2009 1:00:11 PM

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Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline

this must have been written by a republican boss....

_____________________________

I leave it to the 20-somethings to do the "open-minded, total unconditional acceptance thing" for it's how THEY learn that all the things others older than they have deemed BS, are in fact BS. What a waste of a decade.

(in reply to Truthiness)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/26/2009 1:13:00 PM

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Joined: 11/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

this must have been written by a republican boss....

Or an non-liberal boss. You don't have to be republican to see the trouble here.

<-- Not republican either, they're as bad as the democrats lately. (Didn't vote for either Bush or McCain)

(Edit: Kind of an annoyance of late...seeing people lump anyone who disagrees with Obama's policies with the republicans, when often it's not the case. KittenSol has been really bad about that a few times...someone voicing a disagreement with Obama, at which she responds with this strawman argument applying Republican status where none was stated).

< Message edited by Truthiness -- 2/26/2009 1:15:40 PM >

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/26/2009 4:53:32 PM

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Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline

What I wonder is, after all the tax breaks the employers had gotten..what obligated them to share the profits with their employees? Absolutly nothing. Tax breaks do not guarantee generosity.

_____________________________

I leave it to the 20-somethings to do the "open-minded, total unconditional acceptance thing" for it's how THEY learn that all the things others older than they have deemed BS, are in fact BS. What a waste of a decade.

(in reply to Truthiness)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/27/2009 7:40:04 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

But see, you didn't pay all your taxes...your employer paid half.

No, employers didn't.

They, and you, paid the tax burden that was assigned to them.

To suggest that an employer pays half of his employees' taxes is a ridiculous misinterpretation of tax law.

quote:

Assigned or not, it WAS a burden...and it was MY money that paid it. Nice twist but wrong.

quote:

And if you came to work for me, you would be working for someone who built up his own practice alongside his father and paid my way into the clinic so that I could own it in the same manner he did. If you are 42 and started work at 16, then you may well have spent 26 years only working for family members who "inherited" the business. But like it or not, twas their family that went through the original hell and strife and worry of starting the business...not you.

You built up your practice alongside your father.

And you do not think you benefited from the fact there was a practice to begin with?

Another "rags-to-riches" story.

Kind of like Donald Trump, whose father built half the housing in New York, yet believes himself to be a "self-made" man.
Oh Christ...almost everyone that has gone into business has benefitted from the fact that someone has done the same thing...or close to it...before. The trick is being able to be good enough to not only keep what you get but add to it. Do you really think Max Rothschild has not benefitted from his family name and connections? Of course he has...and has built from there. See, if you can't do that, then you skate until it's gone. And by the way, after what my ex did to me, I had to build the practice again. That was not inheritance nor was it because of the patients "given" to me by my father's death 27 years ago. It was MY work, MY abilities, MY marketing that got new patients in and kept them as patients and got them to refer others.
Now...since you have chosen to make the discussion a personal attack when I was not, I am done.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 2/27/2009 7:45:08 AM >

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: "A note from your boss" - 2/27/2009 9:21:14 AM

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

~ Fast Reply ~

The editorial 'letter' documents what many people owning companies are thinking. I doubt many (any?) would distribute it, maybe they should. I'm confident my people know these fundamental facts. I tell them exactly what's going on with my business, good and bad. When that's not the case, employees would be well served to read and perhaps gain a little of the perspective illustrated to understand what the person signing their paychecks is experiencing. If nothing else it will prepare them if a majority, large minority, or even a significant amount of business owners act upon those thoughts.

Me - I hope to give my business to my people in a few years. Yesterday serves as a good example. I moved into a new office in the same complex I've been in for five years. Again, taking advantage of these economic times, I got bigger space for a lower price. Moving sucks; yesterday packing and moving, today unpacking and organizing. My operation is 100% on-line. As a result at 4:00 the business was 'down' when they cut off the connection. Leaving, I asked one of my people, my mail clerk and back up service person, why he was taking the new business folder with him. He said, he was going to put in the deals he couldn't get to from home. Now this guy is at the bottom end of the totem pole; making about $35k. He made that decision on his own. Monday, he'll have $500 cash slipped into his pay envelope. Granted, not everyone manages their business like me, and granted not every employee has integrity and personal accountability. It is a relationship no different than marriage or any other having symbiotic interaction. Similarly, communication is key, and this editorial communicates quite well a manager/owner's side.

However, in an effort of full disclosure; I'm not a self made man either. My father, a GM employee who at 85 may be single handedly responsible for a $1,000 in the cost of every GM product as a result of his medical coverage, and my mother, a public school administrator; gave me their 1971 Chevy station wagon because I needed a car as part of the terms of being hired by a finance company. I had to go out and 'chase' slows. Without that car, I wouldn't have been hired the company eventually sold to Security Pacific Bank, leading me down the path that brought me to my present situation.

Nope - it's all about the family; that $750 worth of Detroit metal enabled me to take on a job that had to give me a 'special' raise after 10 months because they raised the minimum wage to $3.25/hour. Yup - family money is a fundamental requirement and should be assumed. If nothing else, it provides a good excuse for those who don't try to make it on their own, or failed in the attempt.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

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