RE: Afghanistan

RE: Afghanistan (Full Version)

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UPSG -> RE: Afghanistan (3/8/2009 7:11:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave Iran is not going to nuclear bomb Israel. If I was Israel I might doubt your prescience. ( Aside: What's truly horrifying about some of this debate is the large group of people who think GWB is a religious zealot desirous of bring about Armageddon while simultaneously thinking that Ahmedinejad clearly is not). All I can tell you is that if my neighbor states publicly and repeatedly that he is going to build a tank to kill my family, I'm going to the sheriff. If he ignores the warnings from said LEO and starts buying parts I'm going to repeat my concerns to the sheriff. When my neighbor starts assembling the parts the hell with the sheriff. I'm paying my neighbor a little unannounced visit, and I'm taking the shotgun and homemade napalm and plenty of ammo. Well, I for one don't think George W. Bush is a religious zealot. Far from it. I don't share his same religion, or that is to say same view on Christianity, but I would not regard him as a zealot. Bush clearly was leading a secular ideological cause in invading Iraq - namely democracy. But this is nothing new, people of the United States shed enormous blood in Southeast Asia to spread the gospel of democracy and capitalism. Humans kill and war for all sorts of reasons. quote: As far as Israel: True or false: If Israel was never again attacked it would never send another soldier past its borders. Israel will refrain from sending soldiers past it's boarders today because Israel has come to a point where it depends on the U.S. and or the U.K. to sustain its security. Israel can not get bogged down in a war of attrition in the Middle East today because it could not financially afford to do so - it would need the U.S. to finance a major portion of such a war. Other than that Israel would likely look to expand its boarders like the ancient Romans you admire, and like the United States taking half of Mexico and planting its flag on Hawaii. As far as the United States is concerned Israel is an area we can use as a center of gravity in the Middle East, so, I would suspect the U.S. and Israel conduct joint covert operations out of Israel.

DomKen -> RE: Afghanistan (3/8/2009 8:54:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp quote: if we were to take 21st century liberals and press back to the 1940's we would have lost WW II. State opinion like fact much?????[8\|] ~H.G. Wells It's funny how 20th century liberals won WWII. I didn't notice any big change in myself or any other liberals on 1/1/2001 so...

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Afghanistan (3/8/2009 9:05:48 PM)
quote: It's funny how 20th century liberals won WWII. I didn't notice any big change in myself or any other liberals on 1/1/2001 so... They also got us into Vietnam, and we didn't get anything out of it. They also almost started WWIII over Cuba. With the exception of the Gulf War, every war in the 20th Century was started by Democrats. When you see photos, video, and hear stories about cops turning dogs loose on blacks, governors standing in front of schools to bar black students......guess what party those cops and governors were in? I almost forgot.....care to guess which party the only former Klansman in Congress belongs to?

DomKen -> RE: Afghanistan (3/8/2009 9:49:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: It's funny how 20th century liberals won WWII. I didn't notice any big change in myself or any other liberals on 1/1/2001 so... They also got us into Vietnam, and we didn't get anything out of it. They also almost started WWIII over Cuba. With the exception of the Gulf War, every war in the 20th Century was started by Democrats. When you see photos, video, and hear stories about cops turning dogs loose on blacks, governors standing in front of schools to bar black students......guess what party those cops and governors were in? I almost forgot.....care to guess which party the only former Klansman in Congress belongs to? Nice attempt at switching subjects. I said liberal not Democrat.

TheHeretic -> RE: Afghanistan (3/8/2009 10:39:48 PM)
Are you suggesting that LBJ, the man who was going to bring us The Great Society, wasn't a liberal, Ken? Wallace, I'll give you. Got any suggestions for good liberal goals and strategies in Afghanistan?

DomKen -> RE: Afghanistan (3/8/2009 10:57:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Are you suggesting that LBJ, the man who was going to bring us The Great Society, wasn't a liberal, Ken? Wallace, I'll give you. Got any suggestions for good liberal goals and strategies in Afghanistan? I'm suggesting that he tried to claim all Democrats are liberals so as to hang Wallace, the Selma sherrif and Senator Byrd around liberals necks which is of course untrue. As to good liberal goals in Afghanistan, find OBL and end him, strengthen the central government and find some hard money crop to replace poppies.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Afghanistan (3/8/2009 11:04:33 PM)
Robert "Grand Cyclops" Byrd isn't a liberal? Ken, c'mon man....the guy has been described as the historian of the Democratic Party. I don't know if you've ever been through West Virginia; half of it is named after this asshole.

MasterShake69 -> RE: Afghanistan (3/8/2009 11:51:31 PM)
How many secret operations against AL Queda has the press printed the past 7 years??? Do you think they would have printed such stuff in the 1940's against Nazi Germany or Japan??? How about stories about where we are the most vulnerable to attack ;) Oh and do you think we would have been fighting against NAZI Germany? Or would it just be Japan ;) Japan was the one that attacked us on dec 7 not Germany. Germany played no part in the attack. quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp quote: if we were to take 21st century liberals and press back to the 1940's we would have lost WW II. State opinion like fact much?????[8\|] ~H.G. Wells

MasterShake69 -> RE: Afghanistan (3/8/2009 11:54:31 PM)
Roosevelt would have no problem with GITMO, wiretaps and secret CIA prisons. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp quote: if we were to take 21st century liberals and press back to the 1940's we would have lost WW II. State opinion like fact much?????[8\|] ~H.G. Wells It's funny how 20th century liberals won WWII. I didn't notice any big change in myself or any other liberals on 1/1/2001 so...

DomKen -> RE: Afghanistan (3/9/2009 12:26:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou Robert "Grand Cyclops" Byrd isn't a liberal? Ken, c'mon man....the guy has been described as the historian of the Democratic Party. I don't know if you've ever been through West Virginia; half of it is named after this asshole. Byrd is not a liberal. Byrd supported various attempts to undermine the right to privacy. He supported the appointments of both Roberts and Alito. He opposes gays serving in the military. He opposes affirmative action. He supports capital punishment. He supports anti flag burning laws. He may not be far enough right to be welcome in the GOP but he is definitely not a liberal.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Afghanistan (3/9/2009 12:33:22 AM)
quote: Byrd supported various attempts to undermine the right to privacy. He supported the appointments of both Roberts and Alito. He opposes gays serving in the military. He opposes affirmative action. He supports capital punishment. He supports anti flag burning laws. Obama is against gay marriage. Obama is for the death penalty. I guess he's not a liberal either. Bill Clinton and his wife are both death penalty proponents, and they both oppose gay marriage. I reckon they aren't liberals either.

MasterShake69 -> RE: Afghanistan (3/9/2009 12:34:11 AM)
hes a southern liberal

TheHeretic -> RE: Afghanistan (3/9/2009 7:02:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I'm suggesting that he tried to claim all Democrats are liberals so as to hang Wallace, the Selma sherrif and Senator Byrd around liberals necks which is of course untrue. As to good liberal goals in Afghanistan, find OBL and end him, strengthen the central government and find some hard money crop to replace poppies. Gee. Sorta like the religious right gets hung around the necks of those who don't think gov't intervention is the answer to all of societies ills? Right there with you on Bin Laden, and my thought would be let them grow all the poppies they want for a legalized trade (we could have burned those fields in '01). As for strengthening the central government of Afghanistan, wasn't that the Soviet mission when they invaded? A mission they failed miserably at despite sharing a border, instead of a 10,000 (ish) mile long supply line?

SilverMark -> RE: Afghanistan (3/9/2009 7:05:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Are you suggesting that LBJ, the man who was going to bring us The Great Society, wasn't a liberal, Ken? Wallace, I'll give you. Got any suggestions for good liberal goals and strategies in Afghanistan? .....Yes....get us the fuck out!....and soon....

CraZYWiLLiE -> RE: Afghanistan (3/9/2009 7:59:12 AM)
70's Russia invades afghanistan and is there for 12 years, they lost many men, we taught the Aghan freedom fighters how to defeat them with their weapons. Today we are there....Same place different time. Lets bring home our Military from Korea and Germany over 200, 000 troops

DomKen -> RE: Afghanistan (3/9/2009 9:08:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: Byrd supported various attempts to undermine the right to privacy. He supported the appointments of both Roberts and Alito. He opposes gays serving in the military. He opposes affirmative action. He supports capital punishment. He supports anti flag burning laws. Obama is against gay marriage. Obama is for the death penalty. I guess he's not a liberal either. Bill Clinton and his wife are both death penalty proponents, and they both oppose gay marriage. I reckon they aren't liberals either. Being against two things doesn't mean you aren't a liberal but being against a whole list of liberal beliefs does make someone not a liberal.

lronitulstahp -> RE: Afghanistan (3/9/2009 2:45:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterShake69 Roosevelt would have no problem with GITMO, wiretaps and secret CIA prisons. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp quote: if we were to take 21st century liberals and press back to the 1940's we would have lost WW II. State opinion like fact much?????[8\|] ~H.G. Wells It's funny how 20th century liberals won WWII. I didn't notice any big change in myself or any other liberals on 1/1/2001 so... once again...state OPINIONS like fact, much????

Vendaval -> RE: Afghanistan (3/9/2009 3:06:55 PM)
Maybe he thinks he can channel Roosevelt?

MasterShake69 -> RE: Afghanistan (3/9/2009 5:46:52 PM)
here is a simple fact. The mujahedin is not the Taliban .. The northern alliance was the mujahedin. Take a look at the average age of someone in the Taliban.....many werent even alive when the soviets first invaded. quote: ORIGINAL: CraZYWiLLiE 70's Russia invades afghanistan and is there for 12 years, they lost many men, we taught the Aghan freedom fighters how to defeat them with their weapons. Today we are there....Same place different time. Lets bring home our Military from Korea and Germany over 200, 000 troops

MasterShake69 -> RE: Afghanistan (3/9/2009 5:54:29 PM)
lets see someone that had no problem with japanese internment camps. You would think would have a problem with GITMO ;) You may have heard of a man named J. Edgar Hoover???? If you know anything about history then you know what he was willing and able to do ;) http://www.foitimes.com/internment/Books.htm No charges are made; no legal counsel is allowed. Newspapers fill with stories of espionage and enemies. Current events? No. During World War II, the United States used tactics remarkably similar to those in use today against presumed terrorists. By 1939, President Franklin Roosevelt had covertly authorized J. Edgar Hoover’s Secret Intelligence Service to begin surveillance of Axis nationals in Latin America. Believing that “all German nationals without exception [are] dangerous,” the United States surreptitiously pressured Latin-American countries to arrest and deport more than four thousand civilians of German ethnicity to the United States. There, many languished in internment camps, while others were shipped to war-torn Germany. quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp quote: ORIGINAL: MasterShake69 Roosevelt would have no problem with GITMO, wiretaps and secret CIA prisons. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp quote: if we were to take 21st century liberals and press back to the 1940's we would have lost WW II. State opinion like fact much?????[8\|] ~H.G. Wells It's funny how 20th century liberals won WWII. I didn't notice any big change in myself or any other liberals on 1/1/2001 so... once again...state OPINIONS like fact, much????

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