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Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 1/25/2006 1:21:34 PM

iamdownonmyknees

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From: Durham NC USA
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I'm hoping this counts as news.

In reference to the Asher case Bill O'Reilly spoke with a professional dominatrix, Misstress Payne last night. I don't get cable or broadcast television and was wondering if anyone here saw the show.

Richard

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RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 1/25/2006 2:31:42 PM

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Did not see the show, but this is the notes on his website.

Factor Follow Up Segment
Policing private behavior
Guest: Author Georgia Payne

Professional dominatrix Barbara Asher has been charged with manslaughter after one of her clients suffered a heart attack during a bondage session in her "dungeon." Author and dominatrix Georgia Payne claimed most practitioners are very conscious of their clients' health. "Before we meet with a client we ask them about health issues. And you never leave the room, which Miss Asher did. People should understand that role playing is the primary factor in this, not pain." The Factor argued that bondage seems to be a dangerous activity. "When you're in a situation where you're tying people up, you're taking a big risk. You're inflicting harm on someone else. I don't know whether this should be legal or not."

(in reply to iamdownonmyknees)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 1/25/2006 2:34:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

Did not see the show, but this is the notes on his website.

Factor Follow Up Segment
Policing private behavior
Guest: Author Georgia Payne

Professional dominatrix Barbara Asher has been charged with manslaughter after one of her clients suffered a heart attack during a bondage session in her "dungeon." Author and dominatrix Georgia Payne claimed most practitioners are very conscious of their clients' health. "Before we meet with a client we ask them about health issues. And you never leave the room, which Miss Asher did. People should understand that role playing is the primary factor in this, not pain." The Factor argued that bondage seems to be a dangerous activity. "When you're in a situation where you're tying people up, you're taking a big risk. You're inflicting harm on someone else. I don't know whether this should be legal or not."

whoops, that was actually me posting not Mistress Saskia. Should have made sure she was logged out :P

(in reply to MsSaskia)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 1/25/2006 3:57:49 PM

iamdownonmyknees

Posts: 93
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From: Durham NC USA
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So far I've found one comment by someone who saw the show:

Though she tried to present WIITWD in a good light, the overall piece
was a disaster. I was particularly galled when the pompous asshole
O'Reilly claimed to be a Libertarian but that 'some things just sick
and shouldn't be allowed, even with consent.'

Richard

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Down On My Knees & Sensual Sadist

(in reply to colcon)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 1/25/2006 4:27:55 PM

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I did see the entire show last evening. O'Reilly clearly stated he had a "libertarian" veiw of BDSM. He said it not his business or anyone elses what consenting adults do.

O'Reilly said he thought that Professional Dommes were taking a risk, because the activity could cause harm and they could be sued/prosecuted as in the case of Asher. In reference to tying some one up being legal , he was referring to it as a legal business not a legal private activity.

My take on it was he is questioning the safety/risk/legality of Bondage in a business sense. Mistress Payne referenced her own practice of taking a full medical history and proceding accordingly. And that her associates did the same and acknowledged there are risks, but minimal when proper steps are taken.

All in all it wasn't bad.
I expect to see much worse in the media as this case progresses. Whether guilty or not, Asher was at minimum negligent and irresponsible and this will shed a bad light on the lifestyle to the ill informed
mbmbn

edited to add, I do not recall him saying anything about bondage being sick and not allowed. I could have missed it, but I seriously don't remember that.

< Message edited by maybemaybenot -- 1/25/2006 4:30:01 PM >

(in reply to iamdownonmyknees)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 1/25/2006 5:02:49 PM

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Joined: 8/11/2004
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Wow. Am I reading correctly? Someone in the alternative BDSM lifestyle is wondering if there needs to be a law governing bondage??? Quite frankly, since I myself and all those who I play with in my dungeon are of legal age, freely consenting, why should there be any laws involved AT ALL????

In addition, I am not an escort or prostitute, however I would support the legalization of such activities, as well as a few more that society has decided are 'bad'.

I don't want or need anyone telling me right from wrong! people cannot will not be made to use their brains simply because laws exist that presume to legislate morality!! An impossible task at best! Since when did a law against murder prevent murder?

Perhaps we should take care of it ALL and simply have a law against being a MORON who refuses to use common sense!!!!

(in reply to MsSaskia)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 1/25/2006 5:25:19 PM

iamdownonmyknees

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From: Durham NC USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaElle
Since when did a law against murder prevent murder?

Many people feel that they are “protecting” others from themselves.

Or enjoy forbidding others enjoyments of which they disapprove. Though possibly their strongest motivation is that they’d like to experience themselves and want legislation to protect them from their own desires.

Richard

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Down On My Knees & Sensual Sadist

(in reply to DominaElle)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 1/25/2006 5:31:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaElle

Wow. Am I reading correctly? Someone in the alternative BDSM lifestyle is wondering if there needs to be a law governing bondage???

I'm not sure if you are referencing me in the above quote, but to clarify: I was just reporting what I saw on the show. It is not my opinion that we need laws. If I mislead and indicated that Mistress Payne agreed or suggested that, she did not.

I could be wrong and you are referring to neither of us. But just in case, I thought I would clarify.

mbmbn

(in reply to DominaElle)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 1/25/2006 5:50:00 PM

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It seemed as if Ms Payne the so-called 'expert' made the statement I referred to. She is obviously a SHEEPLE. One of many I am afraid.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 1/26/2006 12:22:54 AM

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I saw what Maybe states. Ms Payne, and I believe that she speaks from the Pro point of view, said that some States have laws regulating the bussiness and that she thinks it is important to know if there is any medical condition that may affect the person engaging in BDSM. I thought the segment was pretty fair. You won't want to hide a cardiac patient from a rope, believe me.

< Message edited by Royalton -- 1/26/2006 12:24:15 AM >

(in reply to DominaElle)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 1/26/2006 8:46:24 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Royalton

I saw what Maybe states. Ms Payne, and I believe that she speaks from the Pro point of view, said that some States have laws regulating the bussiness and that she thinks it is important to know if there is any medical condition that may affect the person engaging in BDSM. I thought the segment was pretty fair. You won't want to hide a cardiac patient from a rope, believe me.

Agreed, Ms. Payne struck me as a responsible business owner. I see nothing wrong with holding a service business to certain safety standards. I have don't have tatoos, but I assume when you go for one the artist asks you a few questions such as, do you have any bleeding disorders. In a non business sense, I cannot imagine any Dom/me not discussing medical/physical conditions that would interfere in certain types of play with his/her submissive. To me, it is the same thing.

I did not take from Ms. Paynes comments that she herself was calling for laws, more that she was informing O'Reilly that some states do have standards in place and that she herself has a certain standard she holds herself to.

mbmbn

(in reply to Royalton)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 1/31/2006 4:02:24 AM

ZenrageTheKeeper

Posts: 237
Joined: 6/26/2005
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quote:

The Factor argued that bondage seems to be a dangerous activity. "When you're in a situation where you're tying people up, you're taking a big risk. You're inflicting harm on someone else. I don't know whether this should be legal or not."

Typical Factor fashion. Push the call-to-action buttons with the conservatives without taking a definite stand on any resolution to the issue. That way if O'Reilly is ever called out for trying to get people to illegalize BDSM, he can throw up his hands and say "I didn't say that. I never said anything of the sort." and weasel out of his share of accountability as usual.

The pathetic little weasel is no better than William Pierce.

_____________________________

If Men never thought with their penises, all you girls would still have cooties.

(in reply to MsSaskia)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 2/1/2006 7:00:13 AM

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Joined: 6/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

Author and dominatrix Georgia Payne claimed most practitioners are very conscious of their clients' health.

Are the dominatrixes Georgia Payne and Alexis Payne identical? I know a DVD from Alexis Payne, which belongs to the best and most extreme videos I ever saw... and I saw a lot of extreme videos concerning inflicting pure pain at a slave! This video is a "must" for all male masochists!

richard

(in reply to colcon)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 2/1/2006 2:55:43 PM

indenturedslave

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Mistress Georgia is a different Mistress entirely.

(in reply to LostChance)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 2/5/2006 6:18:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaElle
however I would support the legalization of such activities, as well as a few more that society has decided are 'bad'.

i am sure it would be if you can figure out a way they can collect taxes on it :)

(in reply to DominaElle)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 2/5/2006 7:04:24 PM

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I think that you have to separate a private activity between consenting adults from a business based on the same activity. I have never had a health inspector in my kitchen to check that the fridge is kept at the proper temperature, etc. to ensure that the meals served to my family or guests are safe, but they do so routinely at resturaunts. It's the same activity (fixing dinner) but in one case it's completely unregulated, and in the other case there are many regulations involved. There is generally an expectation in our society that when you offer a service to the public for money that the public has a right to an expectation that you will do so professionally and to acceptable standards of safety.

The real question is whether there should be minimum levels of training and standards of practice for someone holding themselves out as a pro. If there were, and this woman (Asher) was in non-compliance with them it would come down to a matter of her non-compliance, rather than an issue of whether offering BDSM services for a fee should be legal at all. Just about every professional service, from engineering to medicine, to investment services has had to regulate in order to separate the professionals from the snake-oil salesmen over time. Maybe the time is approaching for pros in the BDSM biz to do the same.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 2/5/2006 7:06:33 PM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to iamdownonmyknees)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 2/6/2006 12:41:27 PM

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Joined: 4/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

I think that you have to separate a private activity between consenting adults from a business based on the same activity. I have never had a health inspector in my kitchen to check that the fridge is kept at the proper temperature, etc. to ensure that the meals served to my family or guests are safe, but they do so routinely at resturaunts. It's the same activity (fixing dinner) but in one case it's completely unregulated, and in the other case there are many regulations involved. There is generally an expectation in our society that when you offer a service to the public for money that the public has a right to an expectation that you will do so professionally and to acceptable standards of safety.

The real question is whether there should be minimum levels of training and standards of practice for someone holding themselves out as a pro. If there were, and this woman (Asher) was in non-compliance with them it would come down to a matter of her non-compliance, rather than an issue of whether offering BDSM services for a fee should be legal at all. Just about every professional service, from engineering to medicine, to investment services has had to regulate in order to separate the professionals from the snake-oil salesmen over time. Maybe the time is approaching for pros in the BDSM biz to do the same.

quote:

The real question is whether there should be minimum levels of training and standards of practice for someone holding themselves out as a pro. If there were, and this woman (Asher) was in non-compliance with them it would come down to a matter of her non-compliance, rather than an issue of whether offering BDSM services for a fee should be legal at all. Just about every professional service, from engineering to medicine, to investment services has had to regulate in order to separate the professionals from the snake-oil salesmen over time. Maybe the time is approaching for pros in the BDSM biz to do the same.

I wish we could! Legtimize it and we all win! Look at Holland!

_____________________________

Truly, Lady T.

Lady Tatiana Tantalize
Atlanta's Sadistic Southern Belle, Crossdressing Consultant, Punk-Rock Party Girl and Wicked SugarPuss
http://www.ladytantalize.net

"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages."
-Tennessee William

(in reply to Leonidas)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 2/6/2006 4:25:45 PM

ZenrageTheKeeper

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Joined: 6/26/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyTantalize

I wish we could! Legtimize it and we all win! Look at Holland!

Except for the religious whack-jobs who feel religious morality needs to be made into law.

Holland has no southern baptists to deal with.

_____________________________

If Men never thought with their penises, all you girls would still have cooties.

(in reply to LadyTantalize)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 2/8/2006 10:46:59 PM

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

Wow. Am I reading correctly? Someone in the alternative BDSM lifestyle is wondering if there needs to be a law governing bondage???

Yup... same when they say about the illegal wire taps '' If you're not doing anything wrong you don't have anything to worry about''

It's clearly a war of slow progression and instrumentalism; ''what is not against the law today could be against the law tomorrow'' - I say shame on those who are of the opinion ''If you are not doing anything wrong you don't have anything to worry about''

First Job of Government: Protect people from government.

Second Job of Government: Protect people from each other.

It must *never* become the job of government to protect people from themselves!

- Anonymous

- The Ranger

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 2/8/2006 10:49:58 PM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to DominaElle)

RE: Mistress Payne on Bill O'Reilly's Show - 11/20/2007 7:03:36 AM

Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
I think that you have to separate a private activity between consenting adults from a business based on the same activity. I have never had a health inspector in my kitchen to check that the fridge is kept at the proper temperature, etc. to ensure that the meals served to my family or guests are safe, but they do so routinely at resturaunts. It's the same activity (fixing dinner) but in one case it's completely unregulated, and in the other case there are many regulations involved. There is generally an expectation in our society that when you offer a service to the public for money that the public has a right to an expectation that you will do so professionally and to acceptable standards of safety.

The real question is whether there should be minimum levels of training and standards of practice for someone holding themselves out as a pro. If there were, and this woman (Asher) was in non-compliance with them it would come down to a matter of her non-compliance, rather than an issue of whether offering BDSM services for a fee should be legal at all. Just about every professional service, from engineering to medicine, to investment services has had to regulate in order to separate the professionals from the snake-oil salesmen over time. Maybe the time is approaching for pros in the BDSM biz to do the same.

I heartily agree, although this thread is several months old and it's me posting, not my boy. In the absence of licensing or regulations, I have as a goal at my house of domination that we all get CPR and First Aid certified (some of us actually are and the rest of us are working on it - gotta get the esteemed Mr Wiseman out to larn us some more), and I work with each and every new person to make sure they know where to hit, where not to hit, what to look out for with flatlanders (bondage play creates changes at higher altitudes), proper breathing, aftercare, respect for your bottoms and what it means to give value for money. And then we begin work on esoterica like skin prep, medical play and wound care.

There are people I've seen in the scene, pros and non-pros alike, who are highly respected (and personally loved) but appear to think nothing of spinal cord, kidney, neck shots and nasty wraps with floggers. My house does a lot of public events and the last thing I want to see anyone in the audience doing during one of our performances is wincing for the wrong reasons. I want to see jaws dropped and I want the bottoms in our scenes (or classes or whatever) be be transported to their happy place. That doesn't happen without excellent training and personal dedication from each of us.

Just for fun, but also because I do enough teaching that I'm beginning to think about what an academy would look like, what kind of categories do you think would be good on a course schedule, and how would people qualify for graduation or certification in a range of subjects or a single category of expertise?

(in reply to Leonidas)

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