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RE: what to do if... - 3/31/2004 3:46:47 PM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
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Gossip, unfortunately, is a staple food in many D/s communities. My advice to you is not to accept anything that you don't see yourself as gospel, unless it is first hand feedback that you solicited. For example, in the instance that you site, It doesn't sound like you know, or even want to know the man in question. You didn't ask for this woman's opinion, and you really have no reason to care. The best thing that you can do is just look her in the eye and say "that isn't any of my business". You will only compound the problem (the problem being random and often unfounded drama flying around) if you repeat what you heard, even in a well intended attempt to warn others. If you try and right the wrong by telling the party in question that they are being badmouthed, it just stirs a pot that you shouldn't really want to stir.

Now, lets suppose that you met this man, or any other man, and thought that you might want to have some interaction with him other than the casual, in public kind. Getting and checking references is good. Again, this is first hand feedback that you solicited. In this situation, asking around is also good, but beware. The kind of asking that you should do is to find out if anyone else in the community that you are in has had intimate interaction with this fellow, and then ask that party directly. Again, this is first hand feedback that you solicited. If you can get no feedback on this fellow at all, you are taking a risk. It is up to you, as an adult, whether you are willing to take that risk.

The one and only exception that I would offer to this advice is if someone who is acknowledged to be a senior member of the group (like a DM or someone otherwise known as one of the knowledgable people) pulls you aside and says "hey, getting involved with that guy isn't a good idea". Even in this case, I'd still recommend finding out who has had a problem with him in the past and asking them directly.

Gossip is seductive, and can even feel like the right thing to do from time to time. If you will follow the simple guideline that I just gave you, you will avoid being involved in the drama and endless scuttlebutt that plagues most D/s groups, and have a much better and safer time.

Take care of yourself.

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 3/31/2004 3:56:13 PM >

(in reply to perverseangelic)

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RE: what to do if... - 4/1/2004 9:22:52 AM

mysteryUS

Posts: 4
Joined: 3/30/2004
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Hi Gloria,
Well, that is exactly the dilemma, isn't it? That is why I specifically used the term 'sour grapes' to distinguish between gossip, broken hearts, soured relationships, misunderstandings, etc, etc., and the occasional dangerous person. They are out there, it does happen. When an individual has genuinely demonstrated to an entire d/s community over a period of several years that he is an abusive person, you would not say anything? Ever tried going to the police regarding an abusive relationship who's original context was d/s? Ever tried simply charging someone with abuse in any domestic relationship? At best you can obtain a restraining order, barring being beaten to a bloody pulp. Aside from the physical issues, what about a person who is emotionally and mentally abusing newbie submissives? We all have a sound, common-sense idea of where the lines are - I am not in any way talking about any of the many varieties of mild-to-extreme individuals that can be found in the bdsm community. If one cannot define the difference between a d/s relationship that is consensual and healthy (regardless of the intensity level) and an abusive one, then I would advise against that individual pursuing these activities.
While I understand that your comments come from the possibility of sullying an innocent person with the gossip from one or two bad relationships/experiences, this is not what I am discussing. And I strongly agree with you on that part of your point.
I was not referring to circle 'gossip' in the Boston group - I was referring to serious discussions and substantiated reports among mature individuals regarding a particular individual whose track record within the bdsm community was horrible - in two states, and over years. He had been charged legally, and there were cases ongoing. If I understand you, you feel none of us should have warned any newbies as to his techniques, patterns and danger. I disagree. I think we have a responsibility amongst ourselves, and it should be carefully measured, but there are times when something should be said.

(in reply to sub4hire)

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RE: what to do if... - 4/1/2004 1:10:17 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
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I understand what you are saying Mystery. I agree with you as well. What I am saying is...its a real touchy subject. In the group I run. People refer newbies to me. So I get a lot of them. They always seem to bring with them several predators. Each one on average about 4 a piece when starting out. That number may seem high to some. But what you need to realize is most of these people wake up one day are bored. End up surfing chat rooms..and walla they are now submissives.
All wanting to go out and play today. Not seeking safety at all. Sure there are the minorities out there who want to be safe. Who have the patience to wait but they are few and far in between.

I've worked with the police a lot in my area as well. I know of the frsutrations involved there as well. Been there done that.

What I am merely saying is...a lot of people do have sour grapes. A lot of people will sully a persons name just for the sake of it. How do we differentiate between the two?

I believe it was Leonidas who suggested a DM be the one to preach safety. Maybe this is the way to go. I don't know. I've DM'd a great many parties. I have to say when some players play I'm a bit uncomfortable. I happen to have limits. I usually call someone else in so when I know play is going to go well beyond what I'd like...they can watch it.
So, in that instance I would'nt totally even say I was safe to warn a person.

What is my kink may not be your kink even if you are a DM.

Here in So Cal over the past 5 years or so had 3 criminals amoungst us. Do people know? No actually they don't. Most you could give them the newspaper that covered their trials. Most will dismiss it. Well, he is'nt doing that here. To me a criminal once is always a criminal. Some people just don't care.

When I was in high school. We were told if a cop stopped us don't pull over. Apparently there was a person impersonating a cop..all the way down to the car..uniform. Pulling over females. Taking them out and raping them.
This man who was convicted of this offence was caught arrested and thrown in prison for 10 years. What does he do when he gets out? He starts up a BDSM club. Consentual rape. So I got on the bandwagon and tried to warn people with newspaper in hand, nobody cared.
he had the largest BDSM club in California for about 5 years all the while living in Arizona...commuting back and forth. Not a clue why he was doing that. Regardless...criminals will continue to be criminals. I see no way of stopping them.
More often than not when people talk, its sour grapes. Most of the time it cannot be backed up. So how do we protect the innocent yet warn of the real predators?

(in reply to mysteryUS)

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