RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (Full Version)

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Owner59 -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/2/2009 9:05:22 PM)

And what lies are these?

Or is just name calling enough?



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/2/2009 9:12:21 PM)

quote:

He without a doubt is the most dishonest person in comedy or in politics.


Well, now that Coleman is no longer a member of the latter profession, that may very well be. I have no love for that weasel Franken either, but obviously a slight majority of us Minnesotans felt that Coleman was worse. Given that we've been watching Coleman's senatorial convolutions firsthand for 6 years, and his self-serving, two-faced flip-flopping for 4 or 5 years prior to that, I'd say our decision was well-informed. Albeit a very distasteful one.



CruelNUnsual -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/2/2009 9:13:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

And what lies are these?

Or is just name calling enough?


www.frankenlies.com     thats a start



MmeGigs -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 5:06:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual
www.frankenlies.com     thats a start 


Not really.  You can find similar websites about all kinds of public figures.  Anyone with a couple of bucks to register a domain name can put one of these up, and sensible folks generally ignore them.

Most of the arguments the siteowner makes are pretty lame and nit-picky.  For example, he says Franken lied when he said that Gen. Powell's 2/2003 speech to the United Nations was written by Cheney's office.  The siteowner goes on to say "An early first draft may have been compiled by the Vice President’s office and the National Security Council..."  In some cases, the siteowners arguments are pretty surreal, like where he claims that Franken lied about John Kerry being against gay marriage and for civil unions because Kerry opposed hets-only-marriage legislation.

I'd suggest finding better sources for your information.



CruelNUnsual -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 8:41:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual
www.frankenlies.com     thats a start 


Not really.  You can find similar websites about all kinds of public figures.  Anyone with a couple of bucks to register a domain name can put one of these up, and sensible folks generally ignore them.

Most of the arguments the siteowner makes are pretty lame and nit-picky.  For example, he says Franken lied when he said that Gen. Powell's 2/2003 speech to the United Nations was written by Cheney's office.  The siteowner goes on to say "An early first draft may have been compiled by the Vice President’s office and the National Security Council..."  In some cases, the siteowners arguments are pretty surreal, like where he claims that Franken lied about John Kerry being against gay marriage and for civil unions because Kerry opposed hets-only-marriage legislation.

I'd suggest finding better sources for your information.


And I suggest that you address the more substantive issues, and not the source. Ad hominen doesnt fly.



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 9:02:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual
www.frankenlies.com     thats a start 


Not really.  You can find similar websites about all kinds of public figures.  Anyone with a couple of bucks to register a domain name can put one of these up, and sensible folks generally ignore them.

Most of the arguments the siteowner makes are pretty lame and nit-picky.  For example, he says Franken lied when he said that Gen. Powell's 2/2003 speech to the United Nations was written by Cheney's office.  The siteowner goes on to say "An early first draft may have been compiled by the Vice President’s office and the National Security Council..."  In some cases, the siteowners arguments are pretty surreal, like where he claims that Franken lied about John Kerry being against gay marriage and for civil unions because Kerry opposed hets-only-marriage legislation.

I'd suggest finding better sources for your information.


And I suggest that you address the more substantive issues, and not the source. Ad hominen doesnt fly.


How did you miss the part where she said -

quote:

Most of the arguments the siteowner makes are pretty lame and nit-picky.  For example, he says Franken lied when he said that Gen. Powell's 2/2003 speech to the United Nations was written by Cheney's office.  The siteowner goes on to say "An early first draft may have been compiled by the Vice President’s office and the National Security Council..."  In some cases, the siteowners arguments are pretty surreal, like where he claims that Franken lied about John Kerry being against gay marriage and for civil unions because Kerry opposed hets-only-marriage legislation.



rulemylife -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 9:10:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

Coleman's actions are no different from the actions of the Al Gore camp in the 2000 presidential election but I'm guessing the libs would see that one differently.


Yeah, they kind of are, Gore knew when to finally shut it down.

How many months has this been going on with Coleman still not conceding?



rulemylife -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 9:20:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69


If they were allowed to stand then remember the slipper slope of future elections when payback occurs.  Republicans will view this as a stolen election not as some sore losing that democrats had after 2000. 



I see, so when it happens with Democrats it is sore losing but when it happens with Republicans it is a stolen election.

Or did we already forget all the ballot issues in Volusia and Palm Beach counties?

And apparently, you also forgot that the Florida Secretary of State, who initially refused to do a re-count, was the chairwoman of Bush's campaign in that state.



CruelNUnsual -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 9:28:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual
www.frankenlies.com     thats a start 


Not really.  You can find similar websites about all kinds of public figures.  Anyone with a couple of bucks to register a domain name can put one of these up, and sensible folks generally ignore them.

Most of the arguments the siteowner makes are pretty lame and nit-picky.  For example, he says Franken lied when he said that Gen. Powell's 2/2003 speech to the United Nations was written by Cheney's office.  The siteowner goes on to say "An early first draft may have been compiled by the Vice President’s office and the National Security Council..."  In some cases, the siteowners arguments are pretty surreal, like where he claims that Franken lied about John Kerry being against gay marriage and for civil unions because Kerry opposed hets-only-marriage legislation.

I'd suggest finding better sources for your information.


And I suggest that you address the more substantive issues, and not the source. Ad hominen doesnt fly.


How did you miss the part where she said -

quote:

Most of the arguments the siteowner makes are pretty lame and nit-picky.  For example, he says Franken lied when he said that Gen. Powell's 2/2003 speech to the United Nations was written by Cheney's office.  The siteowner goes on to say "An early first draft may have been compiled by the Vice President’s office and the National Security Council..."  In some cases, the siteowners arguments are pretty surreal, like where he claims that Franken lied about John Kerry being against gay marriage and for civil unions because Kerry opposed hets-only-marriage legislation.




I didnt miss it, I resonded directly to it with the suggestion that the more substantive lies be addressed.



MasterShake69 -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 10:35:05 AM)

so after all the recounts by cherry picking only large democrat areas was any election in Florida stolen?
NOPE

If gore had a clue he would have asked for a recount of the entire state.

Also Colman had a lead before the recount and then somehow some very questionable votes were counted and Coleman ended up behind.  Those events didn't occur in Florida.  Bush was a head and stayed ahead the whole time.  Due to the military overseas ballots.  Gore could thank bill clinton for that ;)


http://www.usnews.com/blogs/washington-whispers/2009/3/8/bill-clintons-bad-rap-with-the-military.html?s_cid=rss:washington-whispers:bill-clintons-bad-rap-with-the-military

Bill Clinton's Bad Rap with the Military March 08, 2009 12:18 PM ET | Paul Bedard | Permanent Link | Print By Paul Bedard, Washington Whispers During his eight years in office, former President Clinton and his team were often labeled antimilitary. There was that bit in 1993 after a Clinton staffer sneered, "I don't talk to the military," when then Army Lt. Gen. Barry McCaffrey simply said, "Good morning," to her. Then Bubba took the blame for the U.S. casualties in Mogadishu, Somalia

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69


If they were allowed to stand then remember the slipper slope of future elections when payback occurs.  Republicans will view this as a stolen election not as some sore losing that democrats had after 2000. 



I see, so when it happens with Democrats it is sore losing but when it happens with Republicans it is a stolen election.

Or did we already forget all the ballot issues in Volusia and Palm Beach counties?

And apparently, you also forgot that the Florida Secretary of State, who initially refused to do a re-count, was the chairwoman of Bush's campaign in that state.




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 10:51:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

so after all the recounts by cherry picking only large democrat areas was any election in Florida stolen?
NOPE

If gore had a clue he would have asked for a recount of the entire state.

Also Colman had a lead before the recount and then somehow some very questionable votes were counted and Coleman ended up behind.  Those events didn't occur in Florida.


What a coincidence! They didn't occur in Minnesota either! Every vote was scrutinized by a panel of three state judges (one a democrat, one an independent, and one a republican), and they apparently didn't see anything questionable about them. Unless you're questioning the integrity of all three judges, one of whom - as I said - is a republican?



rulemylife -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 11:25:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69


Also Colman had a lead before the recount and then somehow some very questionable votes were counted and Coleman ended up behind.  Those events didn't occur in Florida. 



Is that anything like Gore actually winning the popular vote but losing electorally because the state that swung the election had his opponent's brother as governor and his opponent's campaign chairman as the person overseeing the vote counts.

I could also document all the questionable ballot issues but I think you are aware.  What occurred in Florida negated the ballot issues on a dubious application of a constitutional issue.



United States presidential election, 2000 - Wikipedia, the free ...Many of Florida's year 2000 election night problems stemmed from usability and ballot design factors with voting systems....

"Seven of the nine justices cited differing vote-counting standards from county to county and the lack of a single judicial officer to oversee the recount, both of which, they ruled, violated the Equal Protection Clause of the United States Constitution, and five agreed that there was insufficient time to impose a unified standard and that the recounts should therefore be stopped.

The 5–4 decision became extremely controversial due to the partisan split in the decision and the majority's irregular instruction that its judgment in Bush v. Gore should not set precedent but should be "limited to the present circumstances". Gore publicly disagreed with the court's decision, but conceded the election."



Maybe it's time for Coleman to do the same.




    popeye1250 -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 11:32:48 AM)

    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Minnisotta supposed to be a "progressive" state?
    Now it looks like they'll have a 1960's re-run for one of their senators.
    Can Al understand the intricacies of accounting and a budget?



    rulemylife -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 11:47:22 AM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: popeye1250

    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Minnisotta supposed to be a "progressive" state?
    Now it looks like they'll have a 1960's re-run for one of their senators.
    Can Al understand the intricacies of accounting and a budget?


    Considering the deficits we keep running I don't think he could do much worse.



    ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 12:41:19 PM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: popeye1250

    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Minnisotta supposed to be a "progressive" state?
    Now it looks like they'll have a 1960's re-run for one of their senators.
    Can Al understand the intricacies of accounting and a budget?


    Actually, yeah, I think he can. I don't think that will be the problem. He's a very smart guy, graduated with honors (IIRC) from Harvard.

    The problem is not whether he can understand this shit - the problem is whether he can be relied upon to make sound decisions. He's too much of a loose cannon. I'll be holding my breath and crossing  my fingers.



    MmeGigs -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 3:07:06 PM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual
    I didnt miss it, I resonded directly to it with the suggestion that the more substantive lies be addressed.


    That was hardly a direct response.  What are these more substantive lies that need to be addressed?  You haven't pointed to anything in particular, just tossed out a broad accusation that Franken is "without a doubt is the most dishonest person in comedy or in politics."  When challenged, you did not provide a substantive argument, you provided a link to an attack site.  I checked it out and found it lame and nit-picky (as are virtually all attack sites), and provided some examples.  I could have provided many more, but didn't want to bore folks to tears. 

    I did not make an ad hominem argument in my post.  I challenged assertions in the site you cited, and pointed out that attack sites are generally lousy information sources, full of spin and inuendo.  Most folks understand that they should be taken with a grain of salt, and would not consider them a credible source of information, much less cite them to back up an argument.  I'm guessing that if I'd left the "I'd suggest finding better sources for your information." out of my post, you might not have viewed my post as an ad hominem argument.  That wasn't intended as a dig, it was a sincere suggestion. 



    MmeGigs -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 3:14:28 PM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: popeye1250
    Can Al understand the intricacies of accounting and a budget? 


    I have much more faith in Franken than in Coleman in this regard. 



    popeye1250 -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 3:24:43 PM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: popeye1250

    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Minnisotta supposed to be a "progressive" state?
    Now it looks like they'll have a 1960's re-run for one of their senators.
    Can Al understand the intricacies of accounting and a budget?


    Actually, yeah, I think he can. I don't think that will be the problem. He's a very smart guy, graduated with honors (IIRC) from Harvard.

    The problem is not whether he can understand this shit - the problem is whether he can be relied upon to make sound decisions. He's too much of a loose cannon. I'll be holding my breath and crossing  my fingers.


    Panda, correct. The problem is will he do what ***THE PEOPLE*** of Minnisotta want him to do instead of what (he) thinks should be done.
    Any pol who says they're, "going to vote my conscience" should be removed for dereliction of duty. That is a HUGE copout!!!
    If "The People" want a bulldozer parked on every streetcorner then that's what their "Representatives" in the Congress should vote for.
    Congressmen and Senators *serve* at the pleasure of The People, not to be doing what The People don't want.
    Anytime I hear the term "progressive" I think to myself; "someone's going to get a fucking" and not in a good way either.



    MmeGigs -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 3:50:41 PM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: popeye1250
    The problem is will he do what ***THE PEOPLE*** of Minnisotta want him to do instead of what (he) thinks should be done.


    I suspect that if Minnesota voters felt that Coleman was doing what they wanted him to do he would have won pretty decisively, but he's been a pretty lackluster representative.  In his career as Senator, he has only voted against the R party line when his vote didn't matter - when they had enough votes without him.  On those occasions when he has had to choose between party and constituency, he has chosen party.  Had the Senatorial race been Coleman/Barkley rather than Coleman/Franken/Barkley, I think that Dean Barkley would have taken it in a walk.

    I think that Franken will be a much better representative for the people of Minnesota than Coleman has been. 

    quote:

    Anytime I hear the term "progressive" I think to myself; "someone's going to get a fucking" and not in a good way either.


    Isn't that odd.  I think the same thing whenever I hear "conservative".



    DemonKia -> RE: "Senator Al Franken" imminent: Norm Coleman loses AGAIN (4/3/2009 4:24:02 PM)

    & the comics shall lead? . . . . lol

    Makes me wish Bill Hicks was still around -- I'd have voted for _him_ for president, lol . . . .

    Anyways, Al Franken doesn't seem so odd when I contextualize it against the number one news program being a comedy show on a comedy channel . . . . . Maybe is just a lead-in up to a Jon-Stewart-for-2016 pres bid, &, naturally, Colbert-for-pres 2012 . . . . . . lol

    Robin Williams for pres? Too bad Carlin was too sensible for that shit, even when he was with us . . .. . ..

    lol

    Okay, I'll admit, I like comedians running for office, but only when it's funny . .. . . hehehehe

    Best,
    The Demon, Kia



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