RE: dangerous

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lovingpet -> RE: dangerous (4/3/2009 6:41:39 AM)
I think it is not the play itself that is being viewed as edgeplay, but the circumstances of the play (a dominant under the influence of alcohol) that is pulling up this word. Nowhere did the OP call it edgeplay and it doesn't sound like we are talking about anything "extreme" except in that it got entirely out of hand for obvious reasons. Whether he liked it or not is not the point to me and I would argue he didn't get much joy out of the evening since it brought up bad memories and he had to be "saved". It doesn't sound like there was any real intervention for either of these at the time since he was too busy saving his own skin for processing or snuggles or whatever. He enjoyed it, yes. Up to the point when his mind broke from under him and the dominant spun too wildly out of control. Sometimes a good time just isn't worth the risks. In my estimation, that was his question. Do people think it was worth the rsks and, therefore, go forward again? We will never know, however, because the OP dropped this thread long ago. lovingpet

LadyPact -> RE: dangerous (4/3/2009 7:02:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet I think it is not the play itself that is being viewed as edgeplay, but the circumstances of the play (a dominant under the influence of alcohol) that is pulling up this word. Nowhere did the OP call it edgeplay and it doesn't sound like we are talking about anything "extreme" except in that it got entirely out of hand for obvious reasons. Whether he liked it or not is not the point to me and I would argue he didn't get much joy out of the evening since it brought up bad memories and he had to be "saved". It doesn't sound like there was any real intervention for either of these at the time since he was too busy saving his own skin for processing or snuggles or whatever. He enjoyed it, yes. Up to the point when his mind broke from under him and the dominant spun too wildly out of control. Sometimes a good time just isn't worth the risks. In my estimation, that was his question. Do people think it was worth the rsks and, therefore, go forward again? We will never know, however, because the OP dropped this thread long ago. lovingpet You know, some people in recovery will accredit people who stopped them from taking the first drink in some situations as "saving" them.

MissJanice2 -> RE: dangerous (4/3/2009 7:06:48 AM)
*I made the mistake of getting drunk in a dungeon setting while training with my Domme trainer. She beat me up. I deserved it.* *She wasn't drunk.* *She pointed out very clearly that dom/dommes do not drink and beat.* *lol* MJ

lovingpet -> RE: dangerous (4/3/2009 9:18:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: topleaseyou555 she was drunk, i let her beat me a bit too much, i liked it, we are going to meet again, she said she was sorry, i really liked her and her female sub(who basically saved me), In all honesty, he very well could have meant that she saved him from drinking. The OP isn't terribly clear. It sounds like to me he had to be saved from the beating. We may just be reading an unclear post differently. My apologies to the OP if that is the case. I would hazard that if he was close to taking a first drink after 7 years of sobrietyand had to be saved, things are amiss as well. I really don't think it matters which is the case. He is still asking the same thing. Is it worth the risks to play with her again? lovingpet

ShaktiSama -> RE: dangerous (4/3/2009 10:25:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet It sounds like to me he had to be saved from the beating. Agreed. The way it was phrased in the OP made it sound as if the woman's female submissive had to intervene to get this domme to stop--this is always a bad sign. The OP states that the domme went too far due to alcohol, rather than the woman just plain being inexperienced/incompetent/insensitive, so I've taken his word for it. My responses to this thread have been based on this interpretation. Once again, in my opinion: the judgment and sensitivity you need to assess your submissive's condition during a scene are exactly the kind of faculties that go bye-bye when you drink. When you're playing with someone you know well and you've built up a sufficient rapport, it may be possible to play much looser and edgier, sure. Getting drunk to beat on a submissive who is not only new to you but apparently hasn't even got much experience with bdsm in general, and has had little chance to learn his own physical/emotional limits in general, strikes me as a bad idea. Are these just my opinions? Sure. Lynxx is making much of the fact that the OP says he enjoys being beaten; I don't. I know from experience that masochists can eroticize/enjoy a lot of dubious experiences. That doesn't necessarily make those things "good" or right, nor does it absolve the dominant from any and all harm she causes, emotional or physical. The ability to let go, relax and enjoy your masochism can be a great blessing, but that blessing is at least partially contingent upon the sanity and judgment of your dominant/sadistic partner. You need to be able to put yourself in the hands of someone cruel--not careless. Upshot is: someone in this equation needs to be "with it" enough to draw the line. Traditionally, this responsibility is on the top's shoulders; probably because it's kind of hard for the bottom to take responsibility when he's bound and gagged and being flogged... Other people may want and need to experience more risk in their play. That's fine if they have already exhausted the fun of lower-risk activities and they're working with other experienced players. I think that context matters quite a lot, however. Do we really need to sell newbies on dangerous and "edgy" play before they get their feet under them? Should we advocate high-risk play as something that's ALWAYS good to do with any partner, any time, any where, no matter what your level of intimacy or experience is? Maybe not. Lynxx's point about how to drive a new car is well-taken. There are also some valid points to make about how to drive when you've just gotten your learner's permit. Will you be a racecar driver someday? Maybe. Do you need to be driving 200 mph dodging Sunday traffic, deer and dogs on the freeway while you're still learning to drive? Maybe not. Seems like a good way for someone to get hurt, and not in the fun way... Anyhoo. Naturally, the OP is going to do whatever he wants--it's his life. He knows this woman and himself better than we do. And OF COURSE the whole story is not being told! NO story is ever completely told, especially in 200 words or less on the Internet.

LadyLupineNYC -> RE: dangerous (4/3/2009 3:38:56 PM)
I have found that some s-types have a harder time making clear choices and decision when in an intense scene (note: I am NOT saying that they are unable to think for themselves etc etc). This is why I personally feel it is very important for the D-type to be as aware as possible of the body language and emotional state of the s-type during a scene. I too read the OP as the female sub having to intervene in play (vs. some sort of metaphysical 'stopped him from drinking- his previous alcoholism was part of a large context). CP, whether we think of it or not this way, can very easily be 'edge play'; it is often so much more than a little bare handed smacking. Anytime you take an inanimate object and use it on animate flesh, something has the ability to go wrong. One wrong aim (here enters impairment) and that caning becomes a hit to the kidney, a flogging to the open eye, a whip to...man...ANYwhere a whip shant go!. Even sober many of these scene require skill, practice, often training etc...even then a misplaced hit can occur and the s-type squirms and moves. To be clear headed is key, IMHO. If you need the mind alteraning substances to 'have more fun', 'make it more real', or make it more intense' than, I feel, something else missing is the larger issue. Save teh bottle for the warm fuzzy aftercare/ celebration of a job well done.

LadyPact -> RE: dangerous (4/3/2009 4:51:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet I would hazard that if he was close to taking a first drink after 7 years of sobriety and had to be saved, things are amiss as well. I really don't think it matters which is the case. He is still asking the same thing. Is it worth the risks to play with her again? lovingpet My question in return would be, if she wasn't drinking on the next play date, where is the risk? That she might drink for the play time after that? If the top in this case recognizes now that she drank too much during play, and corrects that mistake for future encounters, I'm not seeing why she's being condemned here. It's not like she needs to start wearing a scarlet letter on her chest. I'm more of the mind to say eliminate the problem, not the player.

lovingpet -> RE: dangerous (4/3/2009 6:11:10 PM)
I agree, LadyPact. IF she does modify her behavior, then I see no issue. My question is can or does she want to do so. Only she can answer that. We all make various mistakes, but it is what we do after that is telling. I hope everyone in this particular situation gets it worked out and everyone can move on from this point. I certainly never meant to assume that she could not or would not change her patterns for future play. I took the question to have more to do with IF this is how it will ALWAYS be, would it be worth the risks to move forward. There is an awful lot to have to extrapolate from the OP and subsequent posts. I am doing my best to fill in the gaps, but perhaps I misunderstand. lovingpet

PeonForHer -> RE: dangerous (4/3/2009 6:38:14 PM)
FR I think . . . that it doesn't seem to be a very good idea to be an unassertive sub.

LadyPact -> RE: dangerous (4/3/2009 7:23:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet I agree, LadyPact. IF she does modify her behavior, then I see no issue. My question is can or does she want to do so. Only she can answer that. We all make various mistakes, but it is what we do after that is telling. I hope everyone in this particular situation gets it worked out and everyone can move on from this point. I certainly never meant to assume that she could not or would not change her patterns for future play. I took the question to have more to do with IF this is how it will ALWAYS be, would it be worth the risks to move forward. There is an awful lot to have to extrapolate from the OP and subsequent posts. I am doing my best to fill in the gaps, but perhaps I misunderstand. lovingpet Naw. You're filling in the gaps just fine. Unless the OP chooses to come back and either confirm or deny our speculations, there's no real way for us to know. Such is the issue with message boards. Sometimes, it's impossible to know.

lovingpet -> RE: dangerous (4/3/2009 7:38:25 PM)
Yup! I am always left wanting for UPDATES!!! lovingpet

LadyPact -> RE: dangerous (4/3/2009 8:19:43 PM)
Would be nice, wouldn't it? Especially since the OP's been back and read the thread. <wink> To tell you the truth, I'm probably wrong in My thoughts. I tend to see other angles from time to time. It's a habit that I have of looking at the abstract. What I don't want people coming away from this thread thinking is that no one can ever make a mistake or that no one can ever change. I also would be greatly disappointed if folks couldn't forgive a bad decision. What I mean by that is I'm perfectly willing to admit My personal humanity and that means, yes, I fuck up once in a while. By admitting that, I have to extend the same expectations of others. It was a shame that the drinking while playing thing had to happen on the first play date. The positive thing about it is now a limit can be set that maybe the OP didn't think about before.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: dangerous (4/3/2009 9:52:49 PM)
I advise you and her not to drink next time. Next time, get you some acid or some 'shrooms. With any luck and some pre-trip meditation, you can have Jessica Rabbit or Minnie Mouse beating the hell out of you. [8D]

lovingpet -> RE: dangerous (4/4/2009 5:43:41 AM)
The primary focus of my responses have been in trying to encourage the OP to set such a limit for any of many reasons. Of course it doesn't help when they don't come back when they didn't get the responses they wanted. I found this to be what was important to me, but I do agree that we all have a bit of humanity to accept when dealing with a mere mortal partner. We all do mess up. I would like to think we can be forgiven and do better in the future. I know... I can be such a romantic sometimes! [8D] lovingpet

lovingpet -> RE: dangerous (4/4/2009 5:45:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou I advise you and her not to drink next time. Next time, get you some acid or some 'shrooms. With any luck and some pre-trip meditation, you can have Jessica Rabbit or Minnie Mouse beating the hell out of you. [8D] Hilarious!!!!!! Truly made my morning! I do hope the OP sticks to the first part and not the humor of the second part....... lovingpet

DelilahDeb -> RE: dangerous (4/4/2009 7:47:03 AM)
Playing while drunk (or equivalent) will get you booted from any play party that I host. Period. Any top who plays while drunk is not in control of him- or her-self; how can they possibly be a responsible top to any bottom? And, added to that, you chose to let her top you for the first time while drunk? You must have a death wish. So. You need to take responsibility for you, and negotiate no drunken play, ever. And if she was drunk first, and you chose to play anyway? I have a bridge I'd love to sell you. First-time play can only be called top and bottom, even if it later grows into a Dominant/submissive relationship. Sheesh. Sometimes I think Madonna has done us NO favors. Lady Delilah Deb

SurrenderForMe -> RE: dangerous (4/6/2009 1:06:50 AM)
Just make sure to have someone else, sober there. Someone who has experience and is willing to step in.

subinchico -> RE: dangerous (4/8/2009 6:27:01 PM)
I like acting stupid while subbing (part of my kink). I like being in the "Evil Kinevil lane" while subbing. WE spend more than enough time informing each other of risks (also part of my kink that she knows, then she's constaly telling me to "shut up" or gagging me). You made an excellent point about the law, lawyering, she has signed documents where I both read and sign them on video, which she has (it'l at least keep my sisters off of her). I know of subs that have perished during play and the domme gets off. If you have further advice, I'll be appreciative. I still think you have to much free time to be bla blaing and what does 'tsktsking' mean?? Cheers and shot of Whiskey to you! ( @LadyLupineNYC quote: ORIGINAL: strangedesire quote: ORIGINAL: subinchico The internet, like anything, should be played with in moderation... This is not about judgment so much as it is about safety. It is one thing to be 'risk aware' because you feel that SSC is for those needing training wheels but that involves accepting great responsibility as well. Go ahead, love your fetish (hey, if people into things like dismemberment, ums, and 'actual' rape can love it I should have to accept it too), but 'tsktsking' someone because they have the audacity to care about people not putting themselves in a situation where things like the 'safeword' can't be heard over the roaring din of belligerent-making alcohol? Now THERE is something to MAKE the time for. < Message edited by LadyLupineNYC -- 4/2/2009 4:15:49 AM > Please allow me to love my kink/fetish that involves risk of death in which alcohol intensifies my excitement therein. The fact that you are turned on by something has nothing to do with how risky it is. I have nothing against edgy, risky play, but I would have difficulty respecting someone whose decision to engage in such play wasn't informed in part by a rational assessment of said risks. Sexual behavior of any kind, untempered by rational though, is as as likely to be self-destructive as it is self-fulfilling. In short, your submission/masochism/whatever doesn't make you incapable of doing stupid shit.

Lockit -> RE: dangerous (4/8/2009 6:32:50 PM)
You know subs that have perished and the dominant got off? You must be talking orgasm becasue law is law and it doesn't always go by what two people agree to do if it is against the law in the first place. I call bullshit...

topleaseyou555 -> RE: dangerous (4/8/2009 8:08:05 PM)
i want to thank everyone for chiming in, i have learned alot, we will be meeting again, i think things will work out splendidly......................have questions, ask, i also did not mean to offend anybody by just watching for a while (let's see where that goes ha, ha)....................but i must say that several of the responders have a pretty high opinion of themselves

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