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RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/3/2009 9:47:37 PM

Emperor1956

Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
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Orion, you make the unfounded statements. Back them up. I don't need to "do the research". I've asked, simply, for one documented act of the revenge sodomy you talk about. One. Is it that hard to justify what you say? Maybe no one has ever called you to account for random unsupported statements. I have.

And being pretty well versed with the literature on and about Freud (and I read Freud, not the classic comic books) I was curious about "Merril D. Smith" as I have never heard of him/her. And so I googled "Merril D. Smith" and found....NOTHING. Did you misremember the name of your source? Because in trying to read your "support" I got borsht.

Now, for my argument: I repeat, I know of NO Freudian reference to anal sex and power issues. I think you made it up. Indeed, that concept is pretty much directly opposite what Freud says in the famous 1908 paper "Character and Anal Erotism" where he lays out the foundation for what is generally known today as "anal-retentive" character. There is no link I have ever read in Freud's own writings that supports your statement. Now I have not read all of Freud. If I missed something, please, please enlighten me?

Pure and simple: Support your arguments. Or as we say in the halls of academe: Put up or shut up.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 41

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/3/2009 10:03:00 PM

Emperor1956

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Joined: 11/7/2005
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DarkSteven, my point is that the statement of a conquering army publicly sodomizing (or watching its leaders sodomize) the generals of the conquered army is a historical libel that has so far as I know NO historical fact behind it. I know that "libel" is often repeated by Turks against the Persians, and by the way, it is also said about the Turks, by the Persians. And it was a libel used to "prove" the savageness (and argue for the eradication of) certain western American Indian tribes in "accounts" of U.S. Cavalry officers. But it is a libel -- a falsehood -- used to perpetuate myths of violence about certain people or events. I have never found a reliable eye-witness account of such activity.

In contrast, here is a wartime activity of the victors over the vanquished of which we have ample contemporaneous historical accounts: Sewing the fields of the vanquished with "salt" (or lye or some other alkalid or damaging salt) to inhibit the ability of the conquered to grow crops. It was common for the Assyrians to do so. It is referred to in the Old Testament (although I would not rely only on biblical sources, but there is contemporaneous support). Notably, there are accounts of the sacking of Carthage and the "salting of the earth" at the end of the Third Punic War when Rome defeats the Phoenecians at Carthage.

My point? If this public sodomy which Orion is so fond of really existed, why can't he cite a single historic account of it? I suspect that his "proof", just like those Iranian-Americans proof, is in impassioned belief, but not fact.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 42

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/3/2009 10:07:30 PM

girlygurl

Posts: 6973
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: in the palms of His hands
Status: offline

Why would performing anal sex determine a persons sexuality?

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happily forever one

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Post #: 43

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/3/2009 10:14:14 PM

RainydayNE

Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline

if a guy who wants to have anal sex with a female should be suspected of being gay, what about the female who wants him to perform anal sex on her? =p if attraction to anal sex is some magical determiner of something, then is something wrong with HER too? =p
this is ... oy...

labelling is silly.

(in reply to girlygurl)

Post #: 44

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/3/2009 11:38:12 PM

Vanityfull

Posts: 196
Joined: 3/6/2009
Status: offline

im thinking she must be gay then if she wants anal sex with a guy or possibly transgendered i donno the law of labing these days..

< Message edited by Vanityfull -- 4/3/2009 11:42:28 PM >

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Post #: 45

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/3/2009 11:40:52 PM

Vanityfull

Posts: 196
Joined: 3/6/2009
Status: offline

quote:

Orion, you make the unfounded statements. Back them up. I don't need to "do the research". I've asked, simply, for one documented act of the revenge sodomy you talk about. One. Is it that hard to justify what you say? Maybe no one has ever called you to account for random unsupported statements. I have.

prison

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"give away everything, so others have nothing"

(in reply to Emperor1956)

Post #: 46

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/4/2009 1:54:48 AM

subboi3382

Posts: 379
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline

lol i always thought that about str8 guys always seeking anal

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

In psychology, and particularly in psychoanalysis (pun not meant), it's frequently suggested that a man's desire for anal sex is a homoerotic impulse. Much to the annoyance of straigher than straight guys who like to think of themselves as the pinnacle of heterosexuality .

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 47

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/4/2009 1:56:20 AM

subboi3382

Posts: 379
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline

interesting i have found many gay guys that like to give but that the vast majority of bi guys just want to receive

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I'm curious as to why you believe as many gay males like to give as do enjoy receiving. In the frustrated words of one of my old friends about other gay males "Everyone wants to be fucked, nobody wants to fuck". He was a bottom obviously (pun intended).

Beyond that, the definition of heterosexual is attraction to and sexual activities with the opposite sex.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 48

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/4/2009 7:47:53 AM

BarbieDollMaid

Posts: 2
Joined: 3/31/2009
Status: offline

Something that is often advised to TGwomen planning GRS (gender reassignment surgery) and that I feel was the best advice I ever had before I had my grs. "don't have grs thinking men will want to have sex with you" they want you to fuck them! I don't know how many of my tgsisters would agree with that but my own experiance when I was preop and dating men was they all expected, and really beleived that is what TGwomen do. Another thing I noticed. Men that knew I was tg and had the surgery could not perform in the "missionary position" which for me was the most fleeting of all sex acts. I don't think there is a man out there seeking tgwomen preops that will say he's gay even though getting pegged by that dick is the motivating factor!. (imho) Herein lies the secret as to way so many tgwomen can "fool" guys. the guys hardly ever suggest having missionary position sex. For me it's all so many many years ago.
Denise

< Message edited by BarbieDollMaid -- 4/4/2009 7:49:51 AM >

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 49

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/4/2009 10:56:32 AM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

maybe it's because the ones affixing the labels are supposedly heterosexual and would never attach a negative to themselves.

on another note, i find the whole thing pretty hot. i didn't always feel like this, but far be it from me to deny a man his wish.

porcelaine

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His will; my fate.

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 50

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/4/2009 2:08:04 PM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline

Emporor, maybe I should have said "taunting" instead of "accusing," but I can't go back and edit the OP. In any case "incorrectly claimed in a derogatory fashion" seems a little too wordy! It's not that homosexuality is a crime, or anything, but it's a little annoying to have people try to insist that you are something that you aren't (or aren't something that you are, for that matter). As to the historical accounts, there are plenty of documented atrocities that have occurred in war even in modern times, without eyewitness documentation, and often the victors try to cover things up. I doubt there was a formal ritual about the sodomy, if it happened, but there were plenty of times when the women of a town were raped in front of their men in order to humiliate both, before the men were killed. Those weren't necessarily documented by the winners, either.

Thanks, porcelaine. :)

Vanityfull, yeah, I've even had gay men (who you wouldn't think would care about it) and straight men claim that I can't be bisexual unless I like men and women equally well, or have done a particular sex act, or have a boyfriend and a girfriend simultaneously, or whatever. Some of them have also claimed that all bisexuals (including me) are greedy, slutty, indecisive, unable to make a commitment, etc., even though I was in a monogamous relationship at the time. Nobody argues with me that I can't be heteroflexible.

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 51

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/4/2009 4:52:15 PM

Vanityfull

Posts: 196
Joined: 3/6/2009
Status: offline

i prefer to call myself a fag with some breeder tendances

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Post #: 52

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/4/2009 5:47:37 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Sex and Conquest: Gendered Violence, Political Order, and the European Conquest of the Americas by Richard C. Trexler

"Character and Anal Eroticism" in The Standard Edition of the Complete Psychological Works vol. 9

"Sex Without Consent: Rape and Sexual Coercion in America" Merril D. Smith

"Encyclopedia of Rape" Merril D. Smith

There are a few for you. With your insulting, and condescending attitude, I am pretty much done with you.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Emperor1956)

Post #: 53

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/4/2009 6:24:45 PM

MarsBonfire

Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline

So, just wanting the incredibly intimate penetration... the intense tightness... and the wanting to fuck with 0 chance of preganacy... is somehow a "tell" for being a closet cocksucker? Really?

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 54

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/4/2009 6:36:23 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I'd think if that were true, the world would be a much more interesting place, at least for Me.

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Post #: 55

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/4/2009 7:59:15 PM

LPslittleclip

Posts: 1163
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline

gay used to mean happy and a fag was a cigarette. i am attracted to the opposite sex not to my own sex. so what. i don't judge others by how they enjoy sex. as far as enjoying anal yes i enjoy anal, again so what. the American culture has put up such a bunch of barriers to enjoyment that its a wonder any of us manage to have any at all. my opinion is stop with the segregation and pigeonholing of the populace and just accept and tolerate the world and just be happy.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 56

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/4/2009 8:54:42 PM

DarkFury

Posts: 264
Joined: 4/1/2009
Status: offline

The sad part is the stigma of a man wanting anal from a woman is still considered a gay activity.

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Did you eat a bowl of stupid for breakfast?

The Chosen Bear & RESIDENT MANWHORE

(in reply to LPslittleclip)

Post #: 57

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/4/2009 8:59:52 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

The sad part is PERVS having these kinds of incredibly prejudiced views. I know, there is no reason for the bdsm or Gorean populations to be any different from the world at large, but I find it sad when one edge group cannot accept another, but has the need to stigmatize it, spread warped stories, and spread libel.

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Post #: 58

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/4/2009 9:00:59 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

But wouldn't the very fact that he is with a woman at the very least have him fall into the term bisexual if anything? The problem that I have with the terminology discussed here is that it isn't even accurate.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to DarkFury)

Post #: 59

RE: Men, anal sex, and accusations of being gay - 4/4/2009 9:07:56 PM

DarkFury

Posts: 264
Joined: 4/1/2009
Status: offline

In my opinion I wouldn't think so simply as he is with a woman who is giving him pleasure through anal much in the same way a man will give pleasure to a woman as he is preforming anal on her. As I see it, if a male was having anal with another male then the likelihood that will fall in the realm of homosexual activity. Just let me also say that this is my concept and belief.

_____________________________

Like a dagger you stick me in the heart and taste the blood from my blade
And when we sleep would you shelter me in your warm and dark embrace

Did you eat a bowl of stupid for breakfast?

The Chosen Bear & RESIDENT MANWHORE

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 60

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