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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/30/2006 7:07:12 AM

Arpig

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quote:

The Gorean Forum was set up to discuss Gorean topics... why bring a arguable topic to this board that will surely raise heated debate?

Some of the dominant women on this site have already contributed to this thread on the board where it started.

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MstrssPassion

Ummm.....maybe because the poster wanted the opinions of the dorts of people not really likely to frequent the gorean forum....dominant and slave/sub-owning women?

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/30/2006 9:00:07 AM

GoddessDustyGold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

Plenty of men and women believe submission is a primal need in women (as a gender) and that all women are not complete without a man in their life to take control. It's not just a Gorean held philiosophy.

Do I find this thinking insulting? Not at all. People are people and will be whoever they want to be... if being a 'Gorean Kajira' makes a woman happy then who am I to put down what makes her content.

I talk about 'Fem Supremacy' as a kink, not a belief, and plenty of men and women subs/slaves seek just that...in their eyes ...'a superior woman'...Goddess, Queen, Mistress, Priestess, etc,. One just needs to read a % of male profiles on here and other sites to see just how primal a need it is for a lot of men to submit to a woman, supremacy believer or not.

So on a day to day deal, all women are slaves philosophies doesn't worry me ... and if I am berated in conversation, public or private, by someone who holds this belief...I politely tell them ... all men are submissive when their dick's hard ... and if you don't believe me, just try denying one the opportunity for an orgasm...dominant or not...he'll beg.

The same can be said for women turned on needing release too... lol but I do so love trotting that line out for the hardcore men are in charge brigrade and watching them spluttering over their cognac trying to refute it.

Once again, Jasmyn, you take the words right out of My mouth.
My sentiments exactly.

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They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
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Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/30/2006 11:02:08 AM

MistressAlexaS

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I have two thoughts on Gor. Firstly the *male superiority* idea (which I think is hogwash, both sexes are equal IMHO) is one of males who are afraid of women. Of course they won't admit it even under extreme duress but rest assured its there. They fear women because of the power reproductive power we have, the ability to nuture and feed our young, but also because our children are so deeply bonded to us. Also what straight guy won't do most anything for pussy? Its a POWERFUL draw and some men fear that. Naure did that to make sure that we reproduced and kept the species going. What men fear they feel they must dominate and control. Brute strength and stature does not make one superior, what lies between the ears does. Its been proven males and females are equal in the intelligence arena. Both sexes has their strengths and weaknesses.

Secondly not ALL women are submissive, I am a Dominant female myself. I will never bow down to a man, I will not be under his control, I will not take his orders. I am a true believer in equal relationships where compromise and communication are key. Freedom is very dear to me and as I have said before, I'd rather DIE then be under someone's boot. I also don't like the way the slaves are treated in the books, I think its appalling.

If you like the books as a fictional work thats fine, but if your like some that are out here preaching it as a religion AND trying to convert people, then you've got mental issues as far as I'm concerned. There are women like myself who will stand up to a Gorean male anyday and show him just how strong a woman can be.

~Alexa

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/30/2006 11:17:22 AM

MistressAlexaS

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The Gor folks I've met online have been pretty unaccepting of dominant females and they treat male submissives like trash. To me male submissives are the REAL men as they acknowledge who they really are,know what they want and aren't AFRAID to act on it. I've had SO many Gor Dom's IM me asking me to dominate them online but "PLEASE Mistress, don't let any of my Gor friends/slaves find out about it" they'd whine. Why keep it such a secret if your so superior? What are you afraid of? I refused to dominate them, they were too wimpy for me. I like real men who aren't afraid to stand up and be themselves, not what everyone else thinks they should be.

I read on the net the reason Norman wrote these books was on a bet with a friend. He said he knew he could write a series that would sell if it contained fantasy/sci fi and kink...so this so call philsopher wrote his *bible* on a bet and he's taking his followers money happily to the bank.

~Alexa

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/30/2006 2:11:28 PM

TeeGO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressAlexaS

The Gor folks I've met online have been pretty unaccepting of dominant females and they treat male submissives like trash. To me male submissives are the REAL men as they acknowledge who they really are,know what they want and aren't AFRAID to act on it. I've had SO many Gor Dom's IM me asking me to dominate them online but "PLEASE Mistress, don't let any of my Gor friends/slaves find out about it" they'd whine. Why keep it such a secret if your so superior? What are you afraid of? I refused to dominate them, they were too wimpy for me. I like real men who aren't afraid to stand up and be themselves, not what everyone else thinks they should be.

I read on the net the reason Norman wrote these books was on a bet with a friend. He said he knew he could write a series that would sell if it contained fantasy/sci fi and kink...so this so call philsopher wrote his *bible* on a bet and he's taking his followers money happily to the bank.

~Alexa

Thank you. I appreciate that.

As for this thread. What if I started a thread that said "you must renounce your deviant ways and repent and accept Jesus Christ as your savior. It's the only true way to live."

I think most would say why waste our time with something like that. Take it to some other board. Same with Gorean nonsense. If it makes them happy, I'm happy for them. But please keep your nonsense to yourself. I have no time for that crap.

Goreans (or any in this lifestyle that thinks only their narrow-minded way is the only right way) and bible thumpers. Pretty much the same to me. I avoid to preserve brain cells.

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/30/2006 2:12:39 PM

TeeGO

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OH, let me add to the Gor folk that ARE accepting of others and their choices. I don't mean you.

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/30/2006 3:46:04 PM

MistressDREAD

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Im glad You added that TeeGo
I was pulling out My daggar and
getting ready to jump on you
from behind and slice thru your
jugular. ~smiles~

the half sentance that all woman are slaves is but 4 words out of thousands of words that make up a whole world that is not
run by Male Supremicy but run by BUG Supremicy that puts in place a Male Dominated Society that has its exceptions of Female Dominations with in its writings as well as male slavery that tries to express the Nature of Male Strenth in the vision that the Writer desired to see in a World that at the time was being overrun and invaded in the eyes of the writer by the Powerful Woman of the World at that time. The books have much historical fact at its background basis in the socieites during the roman times and were applied in John Normans writings. He was first a college teacher of history and as such his writings refect this and this is why it is hard for many to spend any time with in his books with out finding their selfs board. His style for many who seek to read the sinsationalizem of today will find His writing very dry but if you read deep will gain a wide understanding of his parables that he sticks in to make his points and parralles of His world He was living in as well as thriving and surviving thru to where his writing is today.

I would apply the same value to His writings which established a lifestyle for like minded folks to that of O which brought people by the thousands out to express their real feelings of the same things they read this woman live thru and experiance. The book of Sade were thought to have been totally fabricated at one time and the masses felt such facts could not be true untill it was discovered that such was to the public at large. even the bible has men who fly and heal misteriously and rise up from the dead. How sci fi does all that sound and still a whole group of people not only established their lifes off of what was written in those scrolls but became large in that beleif to the point that it florishes now all over the world. We never know where a new world a new society will spawn from and become the popular lifestyle of the day and how it might draw its strenths to the point of becomeing an accepted form of alternate lifestyle living.

I am Gorean
I am Free
I am BDSM
I am Poly
I am a Sadist
I dont think any here who have known Me over the past two years of this sites exsistance would ever question My Alpha Dominance.
They wouldent question My Arrogance, Hardheadedness, Steadfastness,Meaness, and say hell ya She is really Perverse and Weird!
But I am so much more....... but the one thing I would never be is a slave of or on Gor. This does not mean that I do not respect equal or better Dominance then My Own. I hope this enlightens those who do not know GOR to come and learn tolerance for it and not judge it nor Us as Goreans till You have read the books your self and judge the position that each Gorean chooses to live and not all of Us based off of the views of a few. Gor is just as diverse as America is. And there is a very large society here online that roleplay GOR who have nothing to do with the real life Goreans nor BDSM or Alternate Lifestyle living what so ever and view Gor very differently from Us real life Goreans and it could be that here online the Gorean that you have had contact with might have been a online player and not a lifestyler. There are differances in Us just as there are differances in those who come to the kinks of BDSM for fun online and escapeizim and fantisizims for adult online enjoyment but havent a clue about Our lifestyle in real life what so ever. fonixz werks fer mi.
if it dont werk fer U dont read. ~smiles evily~

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 1/30/2006 4:19:52 PM >

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/30/2006 5:37:48 PM

TeeGO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

Im glad You added that TeeGo
I was pulling out My daggar and
getting ready to jump on you
from behind and slice thru your
jugular. ~smiles~

And frankly I would have deserved it. Without it I would be as judgmental as those I accused. Thank you for showing me a Gorean that is not prejudiced. My beef is really with the close-minded from any sect.

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/30/2006 10:01:55 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

The Gorean Forum was set up to discuss Gorean topics... why bring a arguable topic to this board that will surely raise heated debate?

Some of the dominant women on this site have already contributed to this thread on the board where it started.

Yes arpig said it right. i also looked at the gor thread but that is two guys who like to banter started that one and it is quite interesting but i wanted to "ask a mistress" rather than the gor people. i wanted to open this up for general discussion with women who would not normally go to the gor threads and hear thier opinion on this too. Frankly i am enjoying this thread more.

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/30/2006 10:17:47 PM

UtopianRanger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA

my experiences with Gor, although strictly online, places a male slave lower than than scum and not worth keeping alive...or so the online Gorean Masters have expressed in the past...

I wouldn't sweat the goreans if I were you.... they are completely irrelevant. They are a very small minority who represent an even smaller sub-set of the lifestyle than you do. Besides.... the types of women you like, for the most part, think they're utterly ridiculous and loathe them...

In the end... it probably doesn't matter whether you're dominant or submissive. But when we evaluate our own selves.... I really think we need to look at three things.....

Are you a gentleman and do you treat the lady you like the way she likes to be treated?

Are you mentally fit?

Are you physically fit?

I would say if you cannot put check next to each one.... it's time to get to work and quit worrying about the goreans.

By the way...what do you think a gorean woman thinks when the guy has to stop and rest, half-way through the motions, because the backs of his legs are out of shape and weak - Points to ponder HAR!

- The Ranger

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/30/2006 10:23:26 PM

michaelGA

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quote:

Are you a gentleman and do you treat the lady you like the way she likes to be treated?

yes, i do. i believe that women should be cherished and served to the best of my abilities.

Are you mentally fit?

well, being one that constantly has to cope with depression, i would say that i'm not sompletely mentally fit.

Are you physically fit?

i am not as totally fit as i should be

< Message edited by michaelGA -- 1/30/2006 10:25:05 PM >

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/30/2006 10:44:27 PM

mantis65

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quote:

I hope this enlightens those who do not know GOR to come and learn tolerance for it and not judge it nor Us as Goreans till You have read the books your self and judge the position that each Gorean chooses to live and not all of Us based off of the views of a few. Gor is just as diverse as America is. And there is a very large society here online that roleplay GOR who have nothing to do with the real life Goreans nor BDSM or Alternate Lifestyle living what so ever and view Gor very differently from Us real life Goreans and it could be that here online the Gorean that you have had contact with might have been a online player and not a lifestyler.

Gor is not my me…..but online you can’t tell who is real about anything unless you have talked to someone into the actual lifestyles whether its Gor BDSM, Femdom or D/s.
I have discovered people that actually practice lifestyles like this generally don’t bother to waste their time trying to convert people (unless that person wanted to be converted) with no interest or impress others with whether they are right or wrong.

My point is it is a waste of time for both parties to argue about philosophies when they could be spending time with people that actually share their interests.

If a Domiant female sadist can practice a real life Gor lifestyle that shows you how different RL can be from a lot of the online stuff I have seen. Not just Gor…. I have read all sorts of fetish sites and BDSM site material that was 100% pure fantasy.

There are a lot of Gor things I disagree with for various reasons but even as a sub male I am fascinated by the type of slavery talked about in the books.
( I still have the book with the panther girls)

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/30/2006 10:48:42 PM

MrDiscipline44

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It's funny, from the replies on here, I can tell that not one (with the exception of Miss Dread) went to even read the thread this one is based off of. The first thing most Gorean men that replied, state is that to say ALL women are slave is a falsehood. Even the poster who originally created the thread doesn't believe it and thats why he started the thread. Interesting how the people who spout how narrowminded the Goreans are, are really the ones being narrowminded. It seems the judgmental don't like to be judged.

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/30/2006 11:55:09 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

It's funny, from the replies on here, I can tell that not one (with the exception of Miss Dread) went to even read the thread this one is based off of. The first thing most Gorean men that replied, state is that to say ALL women are slave is a falsehood. Even the poster who originally created the thread doesn't believe it and thats why he started the thread. Interesting how the people who spout how narrowminded the Goreans are, are really the ones being narrowminded. It seems the judgmental don't like to be judged.

is that some new developement? i remember reading about some gor master who claimed to have written something similar to a gor bible and i frankly do not remember every thing about it because this was like 5 years ago but if memory serves all women had to earn the position of a free woman by being a slave to a male or remain as a slave to a male. therefore i do not see how that invalidates all women are slaves unless they are waking up and something new is coming down the pike? now this was a while back so i dont remember all the intimate details aside from writing gor philosophy off as the biggest crock of bs i heard in some time.

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/31/2006 12:29:33 AM

mantis65

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quote:

It's funny, from the replies on here, I can tell that not one (with the exception of Miss Dread) went to even read the thread this one is based off of.

Oh no I stay out of the Gorean threads!

I don’t feel I belong there……
Not judging them here I just know it’s not for me.

I have read some of the books and I have also read some of the posts on Gor before it was a separate category on Collarme.

I also know I don’t know anything about the real Gor lifestyle, but I have met people offline that have much different than Ideas about subjects like male submission and sadism/masochism which are the points I find myself disagreeing with a lot of the online types.
I am out of the loop so I only know what I have been told or things I have read not what I have ever seen first hand.

But everyone is entitled to their own beliefs

I personally believe most men and woman are submissive (but not always slaves) by nature I think there are only a few people cut out to be true Born leaders within both sexes. I also believe people sometimes change over time or under circumstances that forces them to change to become leaders when needed.

I am talking about the human race as a whole not just the people here that are actually aware of their dominant or submissive orientation and enjoy it.

That is not a fact that’s just my opinion and it could be dead wrong.

< Message edited by mantis65 -- 1/31/2006 12:32:40 AM >

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/31/2006 3:39:53 AM

TeeGO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

It's funny, from the replies on here, I can tell that not one (with the exception of Miss Dread) went to even read the thread this one is based off of. The first thing most Gorean men that replied, state is that to say ALL women are slave is a falsehood. Even the poster who originally created the thread doesn't believe it and thats why he started the thread. Interesting how the people who spout how narrowminded the Goreans are, are really the ones being narrowminded. It seems the judgmental don't like to be judged.

I no longer enter the Gor forum. When I did I ran into a lot of posts which were frankly insulting. Did I respond to these things? No. It was the Gorean forum and that is where such ideas are shared and belonged. I understand not all in the Gorean lifestyle feel that way. I did mention that folks like you that are NOT of that mindset are not the ones I'm talking about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TeeGO

OH, let me add to the Gor folk that ARE accepting of others and their choices. I don't mean you.

I am very happy to hear that most are open-minded. But there is a reason that the Gorean thought is generally found repugnant among Female Domme's and male subs. That is because of the many insults that have been fired at us in the past. The open-minded are always welcome. Thanks for your post and your position on the OP.

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/31/2006 8:55:00 AM

MrDiscipline44

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
is that some new developement? i remember reading about some gor master who claimed to have written something similar to a gor bible and i frankly do not remember every thing about it because this was like 5 years ago but if memory serves all women had to earn the position of a free woman by being a slave to a male or remain as a slave to a male. therefore i do not see how that invalidates all women are slaves unless they are waking up and something new is coming down the pike? now this was a while back so i dont remember all the intimate details aside from writing gor philosophy off as the biggest crock of bs i heard in some time.

So you judge the whole based on the one? Thats as ignorant as the guy you're talking about. Thats like saying all Dommes are just self-centered slaves afraid of there true calling just because I read of one that was. Or that all male subs/slave are pussywhipped nancies that can not be considered a man, just because I READ of one that was. Truth is, you really have no clue what you're talking about. You don't know squat about the Gor ideals and just seem to spew out crap.

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/31/2006 9:00:02 AM

MrDiscipline44

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TeeGO
But there is a reason that the Gorean thought is generally found repugnant among Female Domme's and male subs.

You're right TeeGo. Thats because it underminds the Female Supremacy. Just like Female Supremacy underminds Gorean. Truth is they are more alike then people like to admit. And thats just funny to see when it's put into eachothers faces.

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/31/2006 9:20:37 AM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44
So you judge the whole based on the one? Thats as ignorant as the guy you're talking about. Thats like saying all Dommes are just self-centered slaves afraid of there true calling just because I read of one that was. Or that all male subs/slave are pussywhipped nancies that can not be considered a man, just because I READ of one that was. Truth is, you really have no clue what you're talking about. You don't know squat about the Gor ideals and just seem to spew out crap.

yeh maybe i dont. but then you have not shown us anything to illustrate that i am wrong other than your personal style.

If i look into the catholic religion or any pholosophy i may choose to endeavor, i will gather all the data i can at the time and make my judgement based on what ever is availiable "at that time".

Truth is you did not read my post very well.

i left the door open for you give me some kind of data to show this thread is incorrect. Gor pretty much like klingon has everything in writing. if you cant come up with soemthing to show me in writing then it seems maybe you are the one who is spewing your ideas and they may not be in the same mindset of the creators.

That is why i asked if there is a new developement. So is there? then show me some gor text to back yur azz up bro. So once again is there some new developement?

until i see something showing me otherwise i no reason to think otherwise.

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RE: All Women are slaves? - 1/31/2006 10:05:54 AM

TeeGO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

quote:

ORIGINAL: TeeGO
But there is a reason that the Gorean thought is generally found repugnant among Female Domme's and male subs.

You're right TeeGo. Thats because it underminds the Female Supremacy. Just like Female Supremacy underminds Gorean. Truth is they are more alike then people like to admit. And thats just funny to see when it's put into eachothers faces.

Female Supremacy is another issue. And yes it is a lot like Gor only flip-flopped. But the "normal" Fem Dom and male sub, which I think is what is represented in this forum, are not about to say there should be no Male Doms or female subs. I remember one of the Domme's said that Female Supremacy is their kink, not belief. I'm guessing that would describe your Gorean philosophy?

BTW i respect the fact that you came in here and took offense to the Gor bashing. Between you and MistressDREAD I'm very much lightening up on my Gor-aphobia. I do hate judgementalism.

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