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RE: Gay marriage - 4/18/2009 10:09:50 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or



Fifty percent of marriages end in divorce [in how many years, or is it months now ?]. I know alot of divorcees and there is not one of them happy, their lawyers seem to be well adjusted though.



So now YOU want to do it ? Are you fucking carazy ? C;mon in, there is room for more. You want to face possible alimony or palimoney ? You want to make two local attorneys richer ? Tell you what, go right ahead.

Tell you what, make it legal. Yup. Now you can also take a bite of the shit sandwich.

T


Great logic.

There is a 100% chance of dying.
So why don't we just put down every person born.. since it is going to happen eventually.


Jeez Term.

Do you not realize that gay marriage is needed so that they are afforded the same legal protection that hetero marriages receive?


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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Gay marriage - 4/28/2009 12:03:32 AM   
gman992


Posts: 120
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Good Lord, don't these people know that you are doing time! Either if your homos...homossx...gay or straight, you're doing time!  I mean it's like when I want to take my married buddy out for a beer. He actually has to ask permission. It's not like he's joining the army, he's just going out for a beer at the corner bar.

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Gay marriage - 4/28/2009 6:13:37 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gman992
He actually has to ask permission. It's not like he's joining the army, he's just going out for a beer at the corner bar.


If my husband was 'just going out for a beer' with a little minx like you, I'd make sure he asked for my permission too.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Gay marriage - 4/28/2009 7:06:13 AM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Juliannadelion
You cannot legislate love.  But because people think of marriage as a 'holy union' instead of a federal and state sanctioned legal union - which is what it really is - things get all mucked up in the moral arguments that everyone who isn't gay keeps bringing up.


I do not oppose gay marriage. I would vote in favor of it if it came up on a ballot. I guess I am just not as quick to dismiss the opinions of those who disagree with me as you are. Straight folks have the right to their say in the matter just as gay folks do.

"instead of a federal and state sanctioned legal union - which is what it really is -"

What a crock. There were no marriages prior to the Declaration of Independence, right?

(in reply to Juliannadelion)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Gay marriage - 4/28/2009 7:18:27 AM   
MissVaughn


Posts: 13
Joined: 4/13/2009
From: USA
Status: offline 		I think gays and lesbians deserve a chance to be unhappy and miserable too 

Why should it matter if they are not "man and wife"? Supposedly this is a free country in which you can believe in your own religion and so on and so forth so... what's the big deal with all the, "It was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" bullshit?

God.. Let people live a little. Who cares if they can't procreate with each other. Who gives a shit what other people think. They deserve the same rights as everyone else I mean aren't they human too?


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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Gay marriage - 4/28/2009 7:59:50 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Juliannadelion
You cannot legislate love.  But because people think of marriage as a 'holy union' instead of a federal and state sanctioned legal union - which is what it really is - things get all mucked up in the moral arguments that everyone who isn't gay keeps bringing up.


I do not oppose gay marriage. I would vote in favor of it if it came up on a ballot. I guess I am just not as quick to dismiss the opinions of those who disagree with me as you are. Straight folks have the right to their say in the matter just as gay folks do.

"instead of a federal and state sanctioned legal union - which is what it really is -"

What a crock. There were no marriages prior to the Declaration of Independence, right?


There were marriages.   They just didnt require the sanction of state, country or church


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(in reply to DomImus)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Gay marriage - 4/28/2009 1:19:37 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Juliannadelion
You cannot legislate love.  But because people think of marriage as a 'holy union' instead of a federal and state sanctioned legal union - which is what it really is - things get all mucked up in the moral arguments that everyone who isn't gay keeps bringing up.


I do not oppose gay marriage. I would vote in favor of it if it came up on a ballot. I guess I am just not as quick to dismiss the opinions of those who disagree with me as you are. Straight folks have the right to their say in the matter just as gay folks do.

"instead of a federal and state sanctioned legal union - which is what it really is -"

What a crock. There were no marriages prior to the Declaration of Independence, right?


There were marriages.   They just didnt require the sanction of state, country or church



Which is how it still should be.

Then it'd be 100% fair to everyone, wouldn't step on the toes of the religious, and everyone could be happy.

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Gay marriage - 4/28/2009 11:39:50 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		I agree.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Gay marriage - 4/30/2009 10:49:37 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Actually childless unions have a great deal less stress and therefore are more likely to make it. Also the least likely to divorce are those with four boys. Men get more involved with sons than daughters.

Going by this, gay marriages will not be as likely to not have private time, since there will be no ums needing taking here or there, no nightmares in the middle of the night, and less monetary stress. And lets face it, financial stress causes huge strains on relationships. If two salaries can barely keep a family of four going then obviously two salaries can buy a lot more stress relief for a family of two. Plus no child care costs.

Two men talk the same language and may not argue due to misunderstandings. However they are more likely to have sex outside the primary relationship so an agreement of open marriage is helpful.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Gay marriage - 5/1/2009 1:01:15 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		Ahhhh...marriage....

To me, I have never understood the argument that letting gay people marry will somehow destroy mine.  Thank you, but I don't need any help from gay people to screw up my marriage, I'm doing fine by myself.

If religion does not want to marry gay couples in their church, so be it.  But they should be allowed to get married in civil court.  But in today's world we have to many elected officials bowing down to the demands of religion, or we have huge sums of money being used by religion to put false information out.  Hence the failure of prop 8, yea morons....

I think in the end gay marriages will be allowed, they just have to go through the long fight like everyone else who has fought for equal rights in this country.  The good news is that the states are starting to see the fight is lost and are passing laws allowing them. 



(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Gay marriage - 5/1/2009 1:17:13 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		~~FR~~
..... i personally would be ok with civil unions for homosexual couples.


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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Gay marriage - 5/1/2009 5:06:42 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Actually childless unions have a great deal less stress and therefore are more likely to make it. Also the least likely to divorce are those with four boys. Men get more involved with sons than daughters.

Going by this, gay marriages will not be as likely to not have private time, since there will be no ums needing taking here or there, no nightmares in the middle of the night, and less monetary stress. And lets face it, financial stress causes huge strains on relationships. If two salaries can barely keep a family of four going then obviously two salaries can buy a lot more stress relief for a family of two. Plus no child care costs.

Two men talk the same language and may not argue due to misunderstandings. However they are more likely to have sex outside the primary relationship so an agreement of open marriage is helpful.


While this makes some sense on a certain level, it implies that gays don't have ums and that is just not true.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Gay marriage - 5/1/2009 5:18:31 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Two men talk the same language and may not argue due to misunderstandings. However they are more likely to have sex outside the primary relationship so an agreement of open marriage is helpful.



Actually, while some gay men prefer a primary/secondary relationships paradigm, the majority of gay men I know were in monogamous, long term relationships before the legalization of gay marriage here.
And yes, some of them included children living in the home.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Gay marriage - 5/1/2009 9:53:34 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

Actually this most recent point has not been brought up much. This pushes the CM envelope, but it seems to fly OK for the moment.

Almost universally, objections to Gay marriage are rooted in religion, but that doesn't mean they can't mount any argument whatsoever. Get them into an argument about and they will claim at the very least that Gay couples will raise Gay kids, leading to even more reduction in procreation. Of course not seeing the overpopulation of the world because they live in a bottle is a factor as well. They will also mention the psychological troubles the young might have with this. Things such as "Why does Jenny have two Moms" or "Why does Jenny have two Dads" ? This actually is a valid point in some parts of the country.

However you are allowed to live just about anywhere you can afford to live in this country, so it is a simple matter to live in a more progressive area where you and your lifestyle is accepted. In other words I would not suggest the Bible belt.

Just now what came to mind was the odd couple. Not gay but think of them. Two almost opposing points of view, the range of experience and influence would be near that of a heterosexual couple, if you remember how Oscar and Felix were.

I would have no problem with a Gay couple moving into my neighborhood, not in spite of our difference, almost more because of them. First of all I think they would more likely be able to afford to KEEP a house here (we have had many foreclosures), and I just don't care what they do when the lights go out. Eventually we would bullshit and I would tell them where to get the good stuff locally and which pizza places that deliver here are the best, perhaps help them work on their car or something in the summer months. All the usual neighbor stuff.

Some of my neighbors would say "You know what they are ?" and I would say yes. but they are not out to recruit anyone, nothing like that. I would have to stand with what I believe - acceptance. Some of the neighbors are fuddy tuddies. You should have seen the uproar when they tried to start a halfway house at the corner. Those people are just trying to eek out a life in this miserable world, and it is wrong to kick them when they are down for no good reason.

So let anyone get married who wants to, I have given fair warning so don't come crying to me if it turns into a world of shit. Of course that can happen to anyone. The thing is, even in the Straight people I know, some of the happiest "marriages", and the longest lasting never actually got officially married.

T

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Gay marriage - 5/1/2009 10:04:07 AM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline 		Personally, I have no interest in getting married.  I'm actually pretty near to being ideologically opposed to the very concept.  It certainly isn't my idea of how I want my relationship model to work.

But...

None of that matters.  At all.  Because it isn't the issue.  The issue is that I can choose to reject marriage freely.  Whereas other people don't have that choice, solely because of their sexual orientation.  And, in the end, that's the only significant factor for me.


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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Gay marriage - 5/2/2009 4:13:38 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

This is political because it is law. So I decided to help kick off this new wing of CM because I can. Consider the facts.

Fifty percent of marriages end in divorce [in how many years, or is it months now ?]. I know alot of divorcees and there is not one of them happy, their lawyers seem to be well adjusted though.

Within that 50% there are many in a hetero marriage with kids, they have a rwal reason to try to stay together. They have joint bank acconts, they get along with one another's Parents, life is grand. Yet they can't make it, they can't seem to stay together.

So now YOU want to do it ? Are you fucking carazy ? C;mon in, there is room for more. You want to face possible alimony or palimoney ? You want to make two local attorneys richer ? Tell you what, go right ahead.

Tell you what, make it legal. Yup. Now you can also take a bite of the shit sandwich.

T


There's a risk with any possible thing in life, T; we all make decisions every single day that involve some element of risk. I'd imagine those getting married believe the rewards outweigh the risks.

In terms of gay marriage, well, either you respect individual liberty or you don't; and those who can't afford this to any person of any persuasion, simply do not respect individual liberty.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Gay marriage - 5/2/2009 4:25:47 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Almost universally, objections to Gay marriage are rooted in religion



As religion is a human construct, I'd estimate that objections are rooted in human behaviour: religion is merely one idea of many that can act as a means of separating people into groups and effecting dogmatic adherence to the group norms.

I think it's fair to say that in this country, the Church of England is far more open to gay marriage than the Catholic church. The CofE, of course, has certain values that it holds dear; but it tends to be a church that is short on conservative dogma and long on: "to have faith is enough, god is there for everyone" etc.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Gay marriage - 5/3/2009 7:29:23 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Call me old fashioned..but wasn't marriage established to genetically pass on the bloodline along with propertry and wealth? Very often, it had little to do with love. Are we just going to change the definition of the word and thus invalidate the traditional concept?

Also, I thought civil unions allowed the same previledges that are being called for?

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Gay marriage - 5/3/2009 10:28:54 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Lotus, you really are from the surface of the sun aren't you. You have burned off quite a bit here.

I hadn't considered that, there have been arrainged marriages in many societies, there have been many unions formed for political reasons, sometimes for the purpose of conglomerating powers. There have also been families like the Hatfields and the McCoys, or ala those of Romeo and Juliet. Though fictional, you know it happened somewhere.

Although I do need some time to think about this, it is an interesting aspect to this issue.

On the lighter side, don't push for an arrainged Gay marriage. I can see it now, the boy's nineteenth birthday - "Dad, you gotta be crazy, I gotta do WHAT ?". Now that would be a bit too tripped out for almost anyone. The rest are truly nuts. Just concieving it gives me the willies.

T

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Gay marriage - 5/4/2009 8:04:12 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I hadn't considered that, there have been arrainged marriages in many societies, there have been many unions formed for political reasons, sometimes for the purpose of conglomerating powers. There have also been families like the Hatfields and the McCoys, or ala those of Romeo and Juliet. Though fictional, you know it happened somewhere.

Although I do need some time to think about this, it is an interesting aspect to this issue.

T

Exactly

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Profile   Post #: 60
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