Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (Full Version)

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SteelofUtah -> Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/14/2009 9:20:09 PM)

Okay this is a Thread I wanted to do for a LONG time but always thought that this would end up in Random Stupidity or Deleted outright.

I seriously want to discuss the HEAT of a discussion. Why is it that when Religion or Radical Right or Communist Left or Guns or which President screwed up America Most gets discussed it is always a matter of who is right and who is wrong?

I am a Fairly Conservative guy I think most people know this. I really don't care about Gay Marriage, if you wanna marry fine you deserve to lose half your shit in a divorce just like the rest of us. I don't care about Gay's in the Millitary I kinda want the guy who's covering my ass to be someone attracted to it. I don't care about people who own Assult Rifles or Gernades. I don't care if Big Brother listens in on my phone calls cause I got nothing to hide. I don't care is animals are used for testing if it means that a human being won't be hurt from a product. I think PETA needs to calm down a bit, but I don't think that what they are trying to do is a bad thing I just think they should stop being hypocritical about it. I think Bush was a Horrible President but I don't think he was the worst and if you do maybe you need to do some History Homework. I don't think Obama is gunna Fix the economy in fact I think just as he leaves the white house we will be in the worst position we have ever been in.

HOWEVER, all of these things are opinions and you are welcome to have ones that are different than mine. My Question is why is it so important that you point out that my belief is wrong because yours is right?

You got Facts that prove your point? I got facts that prove mine. There is ever Mathamatical Proof none of us actually exist (Douglas Adams ROCKS)

The Question is what Fuels the Passion?

Look forward to discussing this.

Steel




slvemike4u -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/14/2009 9:32:38 PM)

Usually Starbucks...but later at night I drink a lot of Coke Cola,if that helps.  [:D]




SteelofUtah -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/14/2009 9:34:21 PM)

I'm serious mike,

I have wanted to discuss this for awhile, what is it specifically that makes you so passionate about the political or religious views that you hold so dear to and why do you cold them with such conviction agains others views when they differ?

Steel




Vendaval -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/14/2009 9:35:18 PM)

The need to protect that fragile entity known as the human ego.




ReverendJim -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/14/2009 9:36:12 PM)

Everyone should own guns,and in the plural sense,how on earth can folks protect themselves from the government when it tries to tell us there are no real aliens out there and act all friendly with them?




Emperor1956 -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/14/2009 9:36:48 PM)

FR:  How do you confirm a priest is gay?  I mean, do you do field work?  Do you have to go and...oh....wait.  OH....man....ohhhhhh  Steel....your knees are dirty!

E.




kdsub -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/14/2009 9:38:22 PM)

There is right and wrong...the majority decides which is which...The world changes with ideas...Ideals are only changed by opinions..If I want to change the world I need to convince my ideas are right...makes no difference if they are or not.

Does that make sense to you?...if so i am right again..

Butch




aravain -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/14/2009 10:08:21 PM)

To be quite honest, the writers from the movie "Dogma" said it best (or whoever they stole it from did)...

People have taken ideas... and turned them into beliefs.

A belief is something that, if disproved or challenged... it *hurts*, and so we're compelled to defend it (or to not listen to those who disprove or challenge it while validating our beliefs).

I do it... every person I've met on the planet does it. That's just part of how we tick (and, really, I've seen it in domesticated animals too... silly puppies). Belief is a truly powerful way of controlling someone, since once it becomes a belief it rules them.

I've never seen anyone change a belief. I've heard of it happening... but I've never seen it.




marie2 -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/14/2009 10:21:50 PM)

I have no idea, but it's the reason why I will bail right out of a topic of discussion once it looks like it's getting personal and heated.   I used to stay with it, but I just walk away anymore.  I have no desire to debate with people who aren't capable of a discussion without getting emotional and nasty about it. 

I have no problem with a discussion where someone is being narrow-minded and a poster points out another angle to the person; hell, I've done that, and others have done it to me.  That's the whole point of discussions as far as I'm concerned.  But getting defensive and insulting when someone doesn't feel the same way (sometimes about the most mundane shit) is a sign to me that some people have serious temperment issues, anger, insecurities, and baggage that was existant long before I ever disagreed with them on a chat board. 





ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/14/2009 10:22:39 PM)

quote:

The Question is what Fuels the Passion?


Each of us has a vision of how an ideal world ought to be designed, and it is this vision that forms the basis of our sociopolitical ideology. For each of us, our unique vision of this ideal world is shaped by the peculiarities of our own individual personalities - our sense of altruism, our desire for personal financial security, our concern for the safety of our children, our concern for the well-being of the children of total strangers, our desire to see justice visited upon transgressors, our sense of practicality and pragmatism, our own individual willingness to make personal sacrifices for what we perceive to be the common good, and a hundred other things all go into how we define a Perfect World.

But whatever the ingredients that have gone into our recipe, once we have decided that that's the way the world ought to be, we become deeply invested in it emotionally because that codified vision reflects the very core of who we are - our values, our morals and ethics, our hopes for the future and our fears for what might happen if the world goes in a different direction; in fact, I would argue that for almost all of us, there is nothing in the world more important than our personal vision of The Way Things Ought To Be.

The problem is, other people have other visions of The Way Things Ought To Be. Sometimes those visions (while somewhat different than our own vision of TWTOTB), are similar enough to our own that even though we may disagree somewhat, that other particular vision doesn't really represent any sort of threat to our own. So we don't really get up in arms over it, because it's close enough to what we want ourselves.

But other times, someone else's vision of TWTOTB is so very different than ours, we feel personally threatened by it on a very deep, visceral, fundamental level. For example, if my vision of TWTOTB is centered around abundant educational opportunities for my children and a strong national defense to keep my children safe, and someone else argues for a vision that weakens the educational system and cuts the military in half, then that person's vision is not only in conflict with my own, it represents a direct and dire threat to my deepest hopes and most heartfelt values. On some instinctive level, I may perceive that person as not just someone who sees things differently, but is the mortal enemy of everything I believe in. I feel deeply threatened; reason and civility go right out the window, and animal emotions such as fear and anger take over and drive the debate from that point on. These motherfuckers aren't just wrong, they're threatening my way of life, my children's future, and they're the enemy.

That's where the passion comes from. That's where the heat comes from, and that's why it becomes critically important to prove ourselves right. And prove those other motherfuckers wrong, before they get away with whatever evil scheme they're trying to promote. That's where it all comes from, and that's where it all falls apart whenever two or more of us are gathered in the name of Politics.




aravain -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/14/2009 10:25:10 PM)

Ack! Now I remember that acronym, but can't remember what YMMV means T_T

Damned acronyms... too many [:(]




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/14/2009 10:25:44 PM)

Your Mileage May Vary!




Kirata -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/14/2009 11:17:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There is right and wrong...the majority decides which is which.... Does that make sense to you?

No.
 
K.
 
 




aravain -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/14/2009 11:32:53 PM)

Ack! Now I've forgotten that other one WII...something or other... T_T




philosophy -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/15/2009 12:44:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There is right and wrong...the majority decides which is which.... Does that make sense to you?

No.
 
K.
 
 


...and a million times more no.

i don't care how many people vote that black is white or up is down or left is right. Reality FTW.




PanthersMom -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/15/2009 12:56:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain

Ack! Now I've forgotten that other one WII...something or other... T_T


WIITWD=what it is that we do

morals and society's beliefs are formed by the majority, and that is not always a good thing.  we've had similar discussions in my ethics classes, whether or not it is a good or a bad thing, which i really cannot answer.  you can have a majority of idiots deciding what is moral and just in a particular society.  you can have one person in power dictating their own morals and beliefs as the only allowable views.  each person must decide for themselves whether or not to follow the path of society or to follow their own path, where to concur and where to deviate.  we all must make those choices based on our own conscience.

as for the priests and guns, hell, i think everyone should own guns.  then the crooks won't be the only ones with arms and they'll be a little less likely to attempt something they shouldn't, they might get a fatal case of lead poisoning.
PM  [;)]




kittinSol -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/15/2009 5:34:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There is right and wrong...the majority decides which is which.... Does that make sense to you?

No.
 
K.
 


Ditto. This would imply that the majority is always right, which is asinine.




UncleNasty -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/15/2009 8:17:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There is right and wrong...the majority decides which is which...The world changes with ideas...Ideals are only changed by opinions..If I want to change the world I need to convince my ideas are right...makes no difference if they are or not.

Does that make sense to you?...if so i am right again..

Butch


No.

Ayn Rand had a quote I like:

"You can evade reality, but you can't evade the consequences of evading reality."

And Marie2, I have similar views and practices. My view is that once it becomes a competition of who is right and who is wrong it isn't about "truth" but rather about winning. I'm more interested in truth.

Uncle Nasty




GotSteel -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/16/2009 4:44:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There is right and wrong...the majority decides which is which...Does that make sense to you?...

Butch


No, it's kind of horrifying actually. However it's much more horrifying to have a minority or dictator decide.




JohnWarren -> RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? (4/16/2009 4:51:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There is right and wrong...the majority decides which is which...Does that make sense to you?...

Butch


No, it's kind of horrifying actually. However it's much more horrifying to have a minority or dictator decide.



One of the major jobs of the Constitution is to limit the worst of abuses inherent in unlimited democracy.




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