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RE: So, a hypothetical - 4/24/2009 3:50:54 PM

Crush

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I know there are several books out there...one reason for the post was to get people to think about those (for those that have read them) and to try to get others to think beyond what someone already wrote/said.

Yeah, partially, Kirata.

What would YOU, not some author or philosopher, (of course, their influence on you will color your answer) imagine. It isn't "see book x" kind of answer, though it is useful to often use them as a starting point for you own thoughts.

What would happen to our society if we could prevent physical "distress" to individuals. What societal changes? Interpersonal? Other changes? Would people "step up" or "step over" challenges and people? What other questions are raised?

And of course, your response here is optional, so if you don't want to contribute, don't feel compelled just to keep your posting count up.

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RE: So, a hypothetical - 4/24/2009 4:26:33 PM

Raechard

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I bet the NRA would survive even the personal shield eliminating the need for guns.

Science teaches us something history wise:

The first person invents the personal shield and the second person starts working on ways to penetrate it.

Also a personal shield doesn’t save you from drowning as demonstrated in SG1 episode. Also personal shield would also be pretty useless against ingested poisons. People would also wonder if the shield was causing their cancer due to radiation/magnetic waves.

The few that had the PS2 (Personal Shield 2) would find themselves better off than those that had the PS1 or no PS at all. This would lead to grand exploitation because if history has taught us anything it is: that those that feel the need to protect themselves will do it by any means and use any justification. Being vulnerable is an important part of being human and there are a lot of people insulated from/by vulnerabilities others have which means they are out of touch with those people and their own humanity.

e.g. Not many in the west care about lack of drinking water in some parts of the world because to them turning on the tap and expecting water is second nature. They don't realise how much they need said water. They are not vulnerable to dry summer

< Message edited by Raechard -- 4/24/2009 4:40:57 PM >

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RE: So, a hypothetical - 4/24/2009 4:35:25 PM

Crush

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Yeah...throw a knife. But what if we had a true "personal shield"? That didn't have those holes? How would society change?

I'll go out and BUY a copy of Pohl's book, since the copyright hasn't expired yet...fortunately there is a used book store down the street ;) Always liked the stuff of his I read.

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RE: So, a hypothetical - 4/24/2009 4:38:04 PM

Kirata

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I haven't read any of the books you mention. So maybe I'm missing the point. Which may explain why the answer seems obvious to me. For the most part, I've been fortunate enough to live in places where people don't as a rule harm each other. Pretty nice, I'd say, compared to a lot of other neighborhoods and places. So, I suspect that if it were the case generally (even if only because they couldn't), things would become a lot nicer for everybody all around.

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RE: So, a hypothetical - 4/24/2009 4:44:10 PM

Raechard

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Some would jump out of planes with no parachute just for fun, imagine that.

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RE: So, a hypothetical - 4/24/2009 4:56:34 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

Suppose that a "personal shield" could be invented that would protect someone something like Superman's skin. No bullets, blades, clubs, etc., could harm you. You could just complain that a nuclear blast was as irritating as a mild sunburn. Yet you could take in nutrition (food/water/beer) (your "shield" would let you take in things...and detoxify it as well.

When no one has any physical vulnerabilities, then what happens to government? To society?

There are still bridges and roads to be repaired or built, still a need for schools and education, a need for prisons, defense etc. Just because I may not be physically harmed doesn't mean buildings can't be blown up, infrastructure damaged, banks robbed, so government would continue on the required scale necessary for our society to function and prosper. I don't see too much change in government just because individuals may be impervious to physical attack. I think it could be viewed as a blessing or a curse. Being invulnerable might make me take more risks or.. hell, I might be bored out of my mind. Can I jump out of an airplane without the worry that if my chute doesn't open I'll die? Without the incentive of a consequence for my action, it all seems rather pointless.

I'd vote for keeping life messy. It's more interesting that way. Right now, it's up to me to behave .. to make sure that I am aware of the consequences, to weigh those with thoughtful consideration and make decisions based on probable outcomes. If I know that jumping off the bridge will not harm me.. I really see no point in jumping off the bridge.. and sometimes jumping off the bridge is a thrill and I love the rush the unknown brings.

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RE: So, a hypothetical - 4/24/2009 4:56:53 PM

Crush

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Maybe go in the water after eating without waiting 30 minutes....

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RE: So, a hypothetical - 4/24/2009 5:00:09 PM

Raechard

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That only prevents cramp don't it? I always thought that was an old wives tale.

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RE: So, a hypothetical - 4/24/2009 5:12:31 PM

Crush

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But, I *do* have my force field ;) So cramps or not, you could! Maybe even walk to Europe....

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RE: So, a hypothetical - 4/24/2009 5:18:49 PM

Raechard

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Depends to what pressure the shield could tolerate, would take longer than across the surface considering the hidden mountain ranges, you may even get stuck in alluvium. An eternity in alluvium can be a form of hell.

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RE: So, a hypothetical - 4/25/2009 5:07:25 PM

Termyn8or

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FR

I have already thought about this in depth. I don't think it would be a good idea in this day and age. Attached is an excerpt from a story I wrote a couple years ago, about this exact subject, and while I don't know if the OP wanted technology involved, in this passage it is. Also realize that this happens four humdred years in the future.

______________________________________________________________________________

During the scan I went and got something to eat, it was only ½ over when I got back. "Susan, don’t try to turn your head and look at me, remain calm. Here’s what you’re getting, when activated you got three times your normal strength, you are also shielded from extreme heat and physical trauma. Your device can actually also provide oxygen for your lungs, but it drains the batteries very quickly. If you don’t use that feature the span is about 12,000 hours. And remember one thing, if you EVER use this technology to hurt anyone I will know and I will personally put you to death by slow torture. And, my dear, I will get away with it".

She paused, but then said "Do it".

Once she was installed I tied her hands behind her back to a chair and proceeded to plug her unit into house power (I mean connect the IPI), which not only runs it, but charges the batteries as well. Even at three times her normal strength she couldn’t break the bonds and I put a plastic bag over her head and cinched it tight. She was scared, but after a couple of minutes she realized that she was not suffocating. She said "Wow".

_________________________________________________________

Is this something like what you mean ? If so it would make for big problems if the technology existed now. One thing about anything, if it can be gotten legally it can be gotten illegally. Wannabe criminals would become successful criminals. Such a device would also have to be outlawed for use in any physical contest or game, like a football game for example. If the risk isn't there it's just not the same.

That story is still available to kinksters for free BTW. It does cover the moral usage of superior technology. The closest thing we have now is good PCP. These guys can take a gunshot in the chest and keep coming. They can break the chain on standard handcuffs and are the reason hingecuffs were invented. What's more, among us are people of unusual strength. Those people sre not afraid of jail in the least. They have that advantage, at least for the time being.

Is that what we are talking about ?

T

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RE: So, a hypothetical - 4/27/2009 4:18:05 PM

Crush

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The exercise is about what would happen if a person could never be injured, how would society change?

Bruisers wouldn't be able to bruise. Any kind of weapon would be useless against an individual. How do you "control" such a society when the individual can't be directly harmed? No super strength or such, just couldn't be harmed.

There are possibilities:
A) controlling food/water/etc, but then could the individual still take it anyway?
B) how would you secure your possessions, or would that be an obsolete concept?

etc.

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RE: So, a hypothetical - 4/27/2009 9:12:27 PM

Termyn8or

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Sorry Crush, it seems I did miss your exact point.

The ramifications would be great indeed. Now I hope this passes muster with the mads, but in this situation, a personal shield being all extolled for it's virtues, who would be the first to get them ? I would say our most precious resource - children. They are not stupid, but they are because they have not had all that much time to learn. However without the pain, and skinned knees and such would they learn as much ? Somehow I don't think so.

In my story, people are more advanced, and the shield I dubbed "nucks" was for use on adults only, and that means adults who have no mental issues or whatever. But really, if such a thing were invented most people would put it on their kids, I would. This is actually something I had not thought about when I wrote it. In the story, I had the nucks, but my kids didn't. It almost seems illogical. But then maybe it isn't. Maybe risk is part of life. Maybe when a wimp finally gets pissed off and goes and kicks a bully's ass out in the schoolyard, the risk of losing and getting hurt has been overcome, leading to the trait of bravery in the person.

Yes, thinking about this in the here and now adds a whole new dimension to the question. In my story such a thing exists, but in a near utopian society. People get out of highschool at age eight, they are all taught psychology from day one, things are very different than they are now. To have such a device now would be quite a different scenario, to say the least.

At this point in history, I would have to say no. Just like I said no to inventing a couple of very effective weapons. I am very technology oriented and yes I have had ideas. There are a couple ideas which I KNOW for a fact can be implemented with today's technology, but in some cases it is better not to share. The human race can barely handle the technology it has now, which is primary based on mutual assured destruction (MAD). With this state of affairs, I hope there is absolutely no advancement in technology because most likely it would be misused.

Call me a pessimist if you want, but in my dictionary pessimist=realist. We are not ready. We are not ready for interstellar travel, nor encounters with aliens. We are not ready for a true doomsday machine, and we are not ready for personal invulnerability. We have not advanced enough intellectually to use the proper restraint with such powerful tools.

Here's one for you if you want to think in that direction - time travel. If someone figured it out they would surely make a mess of things. Think of what could be done, and add to that what you already know about people's general disregard for the well being of humanity. If it sinks in, it is a very scary thought.

I will be dead in a few short years, perhaps a decade or two. By that time I am confident that I will be quite willing to die. I have no desire to live in a world as described in books like 1984. While I suffer no love for the outdoors, that is not the same as personal freedom. I even rue the day I finally got on the internet, much behind schedule I might add. But I am still here. Change is the only constant, and one day it will be too much. At that time I will say goodbye.

T

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