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RE: Taking responsibility - 4/30/2009 2:52:21 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Secretary Clinton said the mujahideen were recruited. The Taliban (religious students) were part of the mujahideen recruited.

Source:

The Taliban are one of the mujahideen ("holy warriors" or "freedom fighters") groups that formed during the war against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan (1979-89). After the withdrawal of Soviet forces, the Soviet-backed government lost ground to the mujahideen. In 1992, Kabul was captured and an alliance of mujahideen set up a new government with Burhanuddin Rabbani as interim president. However, the various factions were unable to cooperate and fell to fighting each other. Afghanistan was reduced to a collection of territories held by competing warlords.

Groups of taliban ("religious students") were loosely organized on a regional basis during the occupation and civil war. Although they represented a potentially huge force, they didn't emerge as a united entity until the taliban of Kandahar made their move in 1994. In late 1994, a group of well-trained taliban were chosen by Pakistan to protect a convoy trying to open a trade route from Pakistan to Central Asia. They proved an able force, fighting off rival mujahideen and warlords. The taliban then went on to take the city of Kandahar, beginning a surprising advance that ended with their capture of Kabul in September 1996. http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html "There was no such thing as a Taliban until the Afghanistan’s civil war in the wake of Soviet troops’ withdrawal in 1989, after a decade-long occupation. But by the time their last troops withdrew in February 1989, they’d left a nation in social and economic shards, 1.5 million dead, millions of refugees and orphans in Iran and Pakistan, and gaping political vacuum that warlords attempted to fill. Afghan mujahideen warlords replaced their war with the Soviets with a civil war. " http://middleeast.about.com/od/afghanistan/ss/me080914a_2.htm " The Taliban initially enjoyed enormous good will from Afghans weary of the corruption, brutality, and the incessant fighting of Mujahideen warlords. Two contrasting narratives explain the beginnings of the Taliban.[15] One is that the rape and murder of boys and girls from a family traveling to Kandahar or a similar outrage by Mujahideen bandits sparked Mullah Omar and his students to vow to rid Afghanistan of these criminals.[16] The other is that the Pakistan-based truck shipping mafia known as the "Afghanistan Transit Trade" and their allies in the Pakistan government, trained, armed, and financed the Taliban to clear the southern road across Afghanistan to the Central Asian Republics of extortionate bandit gangs.[17] " 
Closely tied with JUI party in Pakistan, the Taliban received manpower from Madrasahs in Pakistan’s border region. After a request for help from Mullah Omar in 1997, Maulana Samiul Haq shut down his 2500+ student madrassa and "sent his entire student" body hundreds of miles away to fight alongside the Taliban. The next year, the same religious leader helped persuade 12 madrassas in Pakistan's North-West Frontier Province to shut down for one month and send 8000 students to provide reinforcements for the Taliban army in Afghanistan.[120]  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban  I placed a portion in red, as that may be where the misunderstanding is.

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RE: Taking responsibility - 4/30/2009 3:15:50 PM   
DomKen


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I see your confusion. You're confusing the group we call the Taliban, notice proper noun, with groups of taliban that were part of the mhajideen. The Taliban is a creation of the Pakistani intelligence service in the mid 90's as your own sources show. Any religious students, taliban, that were in the muhajideen from 1981 and 82 when the muhajideen were recruited were not still madrassa students by 1994.

I guess you could stretch things a lot and say we are responsible for the Taliban because Mullah Omar may have fought in one of the muhajideen factions. However that is probably propoganda designed to make a Pakistani intelligence official palatable as leader of Afghanistan. Based on the fact that none of the supposed photos of Omar are of the same man it is entirely likely that the man is actually a top official in the Pakistani intelligence service and simply used various stand ins to represent the leader of the Taliban when required. The amusing thing has always been trying to use an eye patch to disguise the fact that the various stand ins weren't the same man. Although he can't possibly be both 6' tall with a sturdy physique and 5' 6" tall with a frail body no matter that both men had eye patches.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 4/30/2009 3:17:21 PM >

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RE: Taking responsibility - 4/30/2009 3:50:22 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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I am confused as what you are saying seems in reverse to what I have read, and what Secretary Clinton testified to as well. Do you have any sources I could read on this? Are you saying that the group we currently call The Taliban is not the Taliban you are refering to?

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RE: Taking responsibility - 4/30/2009 4:34:31 PM   
Politesub53


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The Taliban were formed by Mullah Omar in the 90s, with backing from the ISI, so in that respect America isnt directly responsible. The fact remains though that many of the commanders who formed them, had been fighting with Mujahideen groups against the Soviets. Its hard to get away from the fact there is an indirect link with the original support from the CIA though.

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RE: Taking responsibility - 4/30/2009 6:06:44 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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I also read about weapons purchased by the US being sent, as well as the US requesting other countries in the region to assist in recruiting fighters to go to that area. One of the things I read was that after it was all said and done, the teachings that followed were more closely aligned with things from Saudi Arabia, than from the taliban students that participated in the fighting.

Do you have ant sources I could read on it?

Also, my OP was more directed at a US politician in power that was accepting a non-partisan responsibility for the US involvement, how ever great or little that is.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The Taliban were formed by Mullah Omar in the 90s, with backing from the ISI, so in that respect America isnt directly responsible. The fact remains though that many of the commanders who formed them, had been fighting with Mujahideen groups against the Soviets. Its hard to get away from the fact there is an indirect link with the original support from the CIA though.


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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Taking responsibility - 5/1/2009 1:43:53 AM   
Politesub53


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With regards to the OP. I think its a good thing for any politician to realise some of todays problems may have been caused, or at least influenced, by previous political policies.

Try and find a book called "The Base: In search of al-Qaeda" by Jane Corbin. Its a really good indepth account of how we got to todays position. Below are a couple of links that may also help.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban-time.html

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 46
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