RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (Full Version)

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LadyHibiscus -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 9:08:48 AM)

Still confuzzled...  playing is not fucking!  Foreplay, maybe... [8D]




RedMagic1 -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 9:09:43 AM)

Words are so limiting.  Perhaps I could provide you with a hands-on demonstration.




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 9:11:57 AM)

woohoo!!  [:D]




PeonForHer -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 9:12:35 AM)

One thing I'm thinking is that, though Sodsta says there's definite chemistry, she may not feel confident yet that he's attracted enough to her as a woman and a dominant.




aidan -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 9:18:14 AM)

sodsta, duder, I feel for you. I really do. This was a personality quirk I had to get over not too long ago myself.

I'll tell it to you straight: you can't feel bad about your desires or your feelings for this girl, and about acting on them, because there's absolutely nothing wrong with them. If you've presented events correctly, than she's certainly digging you and she wants to have some kind of more intimate relationship. But she's shy, she's nervous, and she's new. She's really not all that different from you.

Thing you gotta remember, and what a few posters here seem to have forgotten, is that she's a fallible human. Her being shy or unsure doesn't make her less dominant, it makes her less experienced. Few people have absolute confidence when they're first exploring or starting anything new, but especially sexual activities. If she really likes you, I don't think she'll be offended by you being more active in pursuit. Women generally like to feel desired by the men/women they find desirable. She basically gave you permission to at least be more flirtatious and try a little more physical intimacy.

I understand why it's hard though, and I'm surprised nobody mentioned it already. Perhaps it's less of a submissive male thing and more of a generational issue, but here it is: guys from our generation, especially of a submissive bent, are bombarded with and internalize a lot of messages that tell us our sexual and romantic feelings are wrong/perverted/usurious/degrading, and that we have to try and repress them, numb them, hold them back until given absolute, explicit permission from a woman to even broach the subject of intimacy. We're told that our advances are neither desired nor acceptable. To be the initiator is to be the aggressor and rekindle a cycle of misogyny thousands of years old.

Now this may or may not be conscious, or even accurate to you. It's a general issue that affects a good portion of the submissive male population in our age bracket, at least from my and others' anecdotal experience. (I'm wedging a different issue issue in here, but this is another argument in favor of an empirical study of the BDSM population. We need some sociologists up in this piece. Regardless...) Just think about it a while. I know it took me a while to accept what programing I had internalized and to learn to diffuse it.




aidan -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 9:19:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

One thing I'm thinking is that, though Sodsta says there's definite chemistry, she may not feel confident yet that he's attracted enough to her as a woman and a dominant.


Spot on.




ShaktiSama -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 9:38:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sodsta
Boy is now unsure if he should be trying to initiate something or not.


Only if he ever wants something to happen.  [;)]

Whatever it is that happens when the two of you are physically together, you are not sending out the right signals to this girl that you want to be played with or dominated, right now, right this minute.  Most dominants of any age keep themselves under tight restraint until they receive the appropriate signals from a potential partner--sorry to be blunt, but the ability to read consenting invitation in our partner's body language and tone of voice is what keeps us out of jail.

I seem to recall that you have posted a bit in the past about passivity and intimacy issues--was there a fear of being kissed in there somewhere?  In any case, your body language may be saying "Don't touch me" and "I don't want you" to this girl, even if what you feel internally is just the opposite.  It may take conscious effort for you to open yourself up and give her the "take me now" signal, verbally and physically.




Politesub53 -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 10:31:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Okay, please someone tell me the connection between second base and PLAYING? 

Confuzzled Hib


Both make my eyes glaze over.....That isnt what you meant is it Ma`am  [8D]




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 10:35:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Okay, please someone tell me the connection between second base and PLAYING? 

Confuzzled Hib


Both make my eyes glaze over.....That isnt what you meant is it Ma`am  [8D]


They both make me short of breath, too!  [8D]




OttersSwim -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 1:52:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Still confuzzled...  playing is not fucking!  Foreplay, maybe... [8D]


So PforH was talking about getting to kissing and maybe heavy petting...and was looking for the proper term...I gave him "second base" as an American slang for that level of sexual interaction...

Was not referencing "play" at all there Lady H.  [:)]




PeonForHer -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 2:13:24 PM)

Maybe clarification needed from the OP.  I thought his relationship with his partner was (hopefully) going to be about both playing and having sex.  Not to mention romance, and stuff.

I think Sodta's input is required. 

(Geddit?  Hell, is my wit on fire tonight or what?!)




Lockit -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 2:18:46 PM)

<<<< wants to know how geddit sounds coming with an English accent.




LovingMistress45 -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 3:47:55 PM)

Well, she has indicated she wants you to initiate - so go for it.  Personally, I don't know why she doesn't feel comfortable doing it, but if you want to play with her it seems you have to do it.




sodsta -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 3:57:58 PM)

quote:

Maybe clarification needed from the OP. I thought his relationship with his partner was (hopefully) going to be about both playing and having sex. Not to mention romance, and stuff.

I think Sodta's input is required.


Hmm... I think the situation is made slightly more complicated by the fact that she's Poly. I'm open to both play and romance, but am not entirely sure if she's looking for one or the other... or both. I don't think romance is out of the question - in fact, I think she'd be open to and happy with it... but having never been with a Poly person before I'm not entirely sure what sort of expectations go with such a relationship. Perhaps my OP should have addressed this? I wasn't sure how much of an issue it was or how relevant it was to the actual situation.

I spoke to her briefly this morning, after making this post, and asked her, in a casual sort of way, how she got with her other partners. She said she is usually the one to make first contact, to "reel them in", then she wants them to seduce her. Apparently it's worked with her other partners, but I'm not terribly suave, lol. I've never really had to "seduce" someone before... it sounds so sophisticated and intimidating. :S




Venatrix -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 4:07:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sodsta

I've never really had to "seduce" someone before... it sounds so sophisticated and intimidating. :S



You could always try the "shut up and fuck me" approach.




PeonForHer -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 4:23:01 PM)

quote:

Hmm... I think the situation is made slightly more complicated by the fact that she's Poly. I'm open to both play and romance, but am not entirely sure if she's looking for one or the other... or both. I don't think romance is out of the question - in fact, I think she'd be open to and happy with it... but having never been with a Poly person before I'm not entirely sure what sort of expectations go with such a relationship. Perhaps my OP should have addressed this? I wasn't sure how much of an issue it was or how relevant it was to the actual situation.


I think you need a sober talk with her about this poly versus one-to-one matter.  That could be a whole new nest of unanticipated difficulties further down the line if you're not used to poly relationships.   Me, I'd worry about how smitten I might become with her in the future - and then how I'd feel when other people come into her poly life. 


quote:

I spoke to her briefly this morning, after making this post, and asked her, in a casual sort of way, how she got with her other partners. She said she is usually the one to make first contact, to "reel them in", then she wants them to seduce her. Apparently it's worked with her other partners, but I'm not terribly suave, lol. I've never really had to "seduce" someone before... it sounds so sophisticated and intimidating. :S


TBH, I think her talk of your seducing her is just a more flowery way of saying she wants you to take the initiative.   I wouldn't worry about trying to be 'sophisticated'.  If you're still concerned - just do and say the same things as you would ordinarily, only wear a monocle.  [;)]




OttersSwim -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 4:35:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
... If you're still concerned - just do and say the same things as you ordinarily, only wear a monocle.  [;)]


Monocle's do NOT equal sophistication...Allow me to demonstrate with three words:

"Ah, Colonel Hogan..."

[;)]





Lockit -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 4:39:49 PM)

I do believe she has said enough to think she has started the drawing you to her... with her bringing it all up the way she did.  Now she has told you, that other relationships started with her drawing them and them responding by making the first steps after that.  It sounds like she hints or lets you know that she is open to it and wants you to be the one to actually make the moves.  She may not ever be aggressive sexually or she may just be young and maybe afraid for some reason.

Many submissive's are afraid to make the first move and when you have a dominant that is as well... there's a mismatch or it can take forever to never to get something started.

As for the poly thing... that is something you need to work out before this goes any further.  I am not saying you have to know you can handle it. You might not know that unless you try.  If you reject the idea altogether... which I am not sure you do because you have gotten this far knowing she is poly, so play with the idea a bit more and if you aren't totally against it or afraid... try it!  You might actually like it.

One thing about being the age I am now is that I had a lot of years to explore and play and learn all I have.  The only way you really learn some of this is to get out there and do it, take some risks, be open to different things... so that you know what it is you really want and can do.  Don't be afriad of broken hearts!  That fear holds many back and they don't live free to explore.  We all get hurt.  It isn't any fun... but I will tell you... I have learned and grown from every single hurt I have ever had and for the most part, I wouldn't say I wish I had never gone there.  There is more than a broken heart or pain there.  There was life, emotion, experience and learning.. all leading to who I am today, good or bad.

Don't be afriad to live... be afraid of holding back from living because of fear.




PeonForHer -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 5:38:28 PM)

[:D] Superb.  I'm going to download some of those.




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Conundrum: Who initiates? (5/15/2009 6:07:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Still confuzzled...  playing is not fucking!  Foreplay, maybe... [8D]


So PforH was talking about getting to kissing and maybe heavy petting...and was looking for the proper term...I gave him "second base" as an American slang for that level of sexual interaction...

Was not referencing "play" at all there Lady H.  [:)]




OTTERS IS A SASSMONKEY!  Just sayin;[;)]




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