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RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 7:10:56 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No one wants a war that’s for sure...but… now be truthful... would you be afraid if Iran had a nuclear capability and a delivery system?

....not really.

quote:

Would you take a chance that some fanatical religious nut thinking God is on his side would decide to use his weapon?

......we've just had a situation where the US president said that God wanted him to invade other countries. How is that any less scary?

quote:

It is not war mongering to think about these prospects and solutions if diplomacy does not work.

..that would assume that diplomacy had been tried.

Phil I think we are on the right tract for diplomacy with Obama... but we will have to see.

All the times you have posted on your abhorrence of religious fanaticism...and on Bush, which I agree with, I find it hard to believe you could care less if a religious nut had his finger on a launch button. If you worried about Bush you should be no less worried about Khamenei

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/18/2009 7:52:10 PM >

(in reply to philosophy)

RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 7:11:52 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

People who think Iran wants to start WWIII are off their trolley.

Do they even have trolleys in Iran? It seems awfully secular...

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 5/18/2009 7:12:13 PM >

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(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 7:14:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

are you as sure of Iran?

I'm sure you remember all the propaganda against 'the Evil Empire' - turned out it never dropped the bomb, no matter what the fear-mongerers said. Does it ring a bell?

Which country ever dropped the bomb on another? I'm sure you know.

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RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 7:17:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

People who think Iran wants to start WWIII are off their trolley.

Do they even have trolleys in Iran? It seems awfully secular...

*Sigh* - Iranians dream of something awfully secular.

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RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 7:22:19 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

are you as sure of Iran?

I'm sure you remember all the propaganda against 'the Evil Empire' - turned out it never dropped the bomb, no matter what the fear-mongerers said. Does it ring a bell?

Which country ever dropped the bomb on another? I'm sure you know.

I agree kittinsol... but do you believe any and every country should have H-bombs? I am trying to be practical. Bad enough the ones that have them already...us included. I'd love the UN to put its foot down but we know that will never happen.

Would you feel safer for your children and grandchildren if all nations had nuclear weapons?

Butch

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 7:23:12 PM

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quote:

Just me ...no proof... but I think Israel may have a nuclear weapon…if they were of the mind to use it they would have. I think they can be trusted not to use it…are you as sure of Iran?

Again just opinion…Israel has its fair share of religious nuts but none that are in or close to power. The same cannot be said of Iran.

Do we really need another nation with nuclear capabilities?... Are you of the mind that because we have H-bombs that every country that wants one should be allowed to develop them…Just to be fair? Not good thinking in my view.

I don’t think Israel is a threat to Iran except when it comes to the development of nuclear weapons and the US is also not a threat. So the only reason Iran wants this capability is to dominate the region. I don’t believe this is a good enough reason.

So my bottom line… the line I hope we do not have to cross… is I would rather use military action against Iran…either by Israel or us then deal with nuclear blackmail in the area.

Um... I was just being humorous.

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(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 7:25:12 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Just me ...no proof... but I think Israel may have a nuclear weapon…if they were of the mind to use it they would have. I think they can be trusted not to use it…are you as sure of Iran?

Again just opinion…Israel has its fair share of religious nuts but none that are in or close to power. The same cannot be said of Iran.

Do we really need another nation with nuclear capabilities?... Are you of the mind that because we have H-bombs that every country that wants one should be allowed to develop them…Just to be fair? Not good thinking in my view.

I don’t think Israel is a threat to Iran except when it comes to the development of nuclear weapons and the US is also not a threat. So the only reason Iran wants this capability is to dominate the region. I don’t believe this is a good enough reason.

So my bottom line… the line I hope we do not have to cross… is I would rather use military action against Iran…either by Israel or us then deal with nuclear blackmail in the area.

Um... I was just being humorous.

I know I was using your post as an excuse to talk more...lol

(in reply to Marc2b)

RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 7:26:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Would you feel safer for your children and grandchildren if all nations had nuclear weapons?

I've dreamt of global nuclear disarmament all my life, so I know where you're coming from.

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RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 7:26:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No one wants a war that’s for sure...but…

Errr ... sadly,that's not true.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
now be truthful... would you be afraid if Iran had a nuclear capability and a delivery system?

Not afraid (not part of my vocab in that context) and are we basing this on an accurate delivery system or the one the US uses?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Would you take a chance that some fanatical religious nut thinking God is on his side would decide to use his weapon?

Thankfully Bush is out of the equation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
If not a military option what do you see as an alternate solution.

I would never say that a military option is not a solution ... as a very,very last resort to solve a situation but what is it you want me to propose an alternate solution to?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Myself I think it will come down to bombs or Special Forces. If Pakistan does not get control of its country we will have to consider military options there to secure the nuclear weapons as well.

(I'm guessing "we" is the USA?) So this is not about Pakistan's stability, it's about nicking their nukes?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I think we must face the reality that if Muslim extremists were to get a nuclear device they would use it.

How does one distinguish between an extremist and a non extremist ? (Muslim,Christian,Jewish,or any other for that matter)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
It is not war mongering to think about these prospects and solutions if diplomacy does not work.

Diplomacy is not even being paid lip service by many key players at present, however if it were (on a world platform) then it is not likely to result in war, should it be a case of "who goes first"? or should the powerful nations be setting a better example?

Pirate

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 7:37:05 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Would you feel safer for your children and grandchildren if all nations had nuclear weapons?

I've dreamt of global nuclear disarmament all my life, so I know where you're coming from.

I'm with you kittinSol...I'd like to see global nuclear disarmament along with a treaty among former nuclear nations that they would band together to stop any other nation from developing weapons… But then I also dream that I am 30 again...good looking…great shape…and know your address.

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 7:45:22 PM

kdsub

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jonnieboy Bush may be gone but Khameini is there and will be for a long time.

I would like alternate solutions on how to keep Iran ...and other nations from getting a nuclear capability... without using force.

Of course Pakistan’s stability is important ...but more important is who controls their nuclear arsenal if the government falls.

And finally I think we need to give Obama a little more time before we judge his sincerity at diplomacy.

Butch

(in reply to JonnieBoy)

RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 8:27:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

…Israel has its fair share of religious nuts but none that are in or close to power.

....er......that's not true. Those right wing coalitions in Israel don't just stay in power by themselves.
Check out their latest foreign minister.......

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 8:32:08 PM

kdsub

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hmm so by your thinking...it is ok for Iran to have a nut with a bomb..because Israel also has a nut with a bomb... and it is much safer with two nuts with bombs.

Am I right?

Butch

(in reply to philosophy)

RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 8:35:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

hmm so by your thinking...it is ok for Iran to have a nut with a bomb..because Israel also has a nut with a bomb... and it is much safer with two nuts with bombs.

Am I right?

Butch

...i'm against a double standard. If we're advocating military action to divest religious nuts of their bombs we're going to be attacking not just Iran. If we're sanguine about Israel having a nuke, it follows we ought to cool with Iran having a nuke.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 8:37:33 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

hmm so by your thinking...it is ok for Iran to have a nut with a bomb..because Israel also has a nut with a bomb... and it is much safer with two nuts with bombs.

Am I right?

Butch

...i'm against a double standard. If we're advocating military action to divest religious nuts of their bombs we're going to be attacking not just Iran. If we're sanguine about Israel having a nuke, it follows we ought to cool with Iran having a nuke.

So the more bombs the better?

(in reply to philosophy)

RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 8:40:42 PM

kdsub

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I'm not trying to put you on the spot Phil... there is just little we can do about Israel and their bombs... but it is not too later for Iran..I am being practical.. Is Iran with a weapon a stabilizing proposition?...Does it make the world safer?

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/18/2009 8:41:17 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 8:40:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

hmm so by your thinking...it is ok for Iran to have a nut with a bomb..because Israel also has a nut with a bomb... and it is much safer with two nuts with bombs.

Am I right?

Butch

...i'm against a double standard. If we're advocating military action to divest religious nuts of their bombs we're going to be attacking not just Iran. If we're sanguine about Israel having a nuke, it follows we ought to cool with Iran having a nuke.

So the more bombs the better?

....if thats the conclusion you're going to draw from what i wrote, whats the point of continuing this conversation? Sheesh.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 8:42:56 PM

kdsub

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Then state your position without double talk... I ask a question of you then you answer with another question.. I answer yours why not at least attempt to answer mine directly

(in reply to philosophy)

RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 9:05:06 PM

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I wonder why if Pakistan and India and Israel and China and Australia and South Africa and what ever other countries should have the bomb... why can't Iran. I'll tell you why, because Iran has called for the end of Israel, just as Hussein did.
I'll tell you all, it scares the HELL out of me to think China has the bomb... why are we so worried about Iran?

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Obama finally did something I liked - 5/18/2009 9:10:28 PM

kdsub

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I'm worried about anyone with a bomb... and think we do not need anymore. I only mentioned Iran because of the nature of the thread.

If we just set back and not try to stop new development eventually someone will use one. We can't do anything about those that have bombs but we could with those that desire them.

Butch

(in reply to MissSepphora1)

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