RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!"

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/23/2009 1:38:18 AM

CruelNUnsual

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It was addressed to popeye, but since I mentioned illegals also, I'll answer for me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ienigma777

Don't you want Mexicans to make a living, like anyone else? They are more than welcome to make a living..legally.

OR...is it better to Legally' send US Industries, like the Auto Industry to China, Auto industry to China? What do all Asians look alike to you?

Legally give a Big Ol' Bush Bailout so GM youve got the wrong President who has socialized the auto industry.

and the like; so they can reinvest, Legally' in building their plants in China, Brazil, and reimporting and selling their junk back to us at higher prices. Are you insane? Walmart doesnt make its billions selling things at higher prices.

So a mexican wants a decent living, so, what's it to you? Its a lot to me when they depress wages and use services that i have to pay for.

Your Bush sure made sure those CEO's got a decent paycheck...and for failing at their jobs, destroying the economic base of the US and the world; and giving the US industrry to China. Destroying the economic base of the US? Would you care to look at inflation adjusted GDP now compared to when Bush took office? Despite the Clinton recessions and 9/11? Destroying the economic base of the world? Yeah, the rest of the world just started riding the coattails of the US when Bush took over.

YAAFM

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/23/2009 7:53:53 AM

MmeGigs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Gigs, I think you are making my case for me about how the Democrats and powers that be are going to really misread what the statement was.

Theres no question they are, just like they misread the tea partys, aided by a media that wanted to portray it as a bunch of fat old white guys and organized by Fox News.

Perhaps you'd like to take another look at what I said. I didn't make any characterizations of the no tax folks, other than to say that they are the only folks who are passionate about this issue. I didn't misread the statement made by the vote in CA, nor that of the tea parties. I understand the whole no-taxes thing. I am in MN, where we are currently wrangling over budget and where Gov. Tim Pawlenty is determined not to raise taxes. I read recently that on a per capita basis, our budget woes are worse than that of California. 2/3 of the Californians who cared enough about the issue to show up and vote have made it clear that the CA govt needs to come up with a better plan. I'm sure that they will put a new plan together, and that they will work harder to get people out to vote yes, and the vote no folks will work harder to get their supporters out. The wrangling is not over yet in CA.

None of this is really anything new, though. Some years ago, it was taxpayer's leagues asking candidates to sign pledges. There has always been and will always be a vocal anti-tax contingent. They play an important role, forcing some measure of accountability, bringing up things that folks who aren't as focused on the issue would otherwise miss. They are not going to become a driving force in the next election. By the time the next election rolls around, this vote and the tea parties will be old news. Even if the tea parties are reprised next 4/15, by November they will be forgotten by most voters. And if I recall correctly, many of the tea partiers weren't much more impressed with the Republicans than they were with the Democrats. I think that the Republicans are overestimating the amount of bounce they're going to get from this. It's a situation that is ripe for a third party to capitalize on, though.

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/23/2009 8:03:23 AM

Mezrem

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

And if I recall correctly, many of the tea partiers weren't much more impressed with the Republicans than they were with the Democrats. I think that the Republicans are overestimating the amount of bounce they're going to get from this. It's a situation that is ripe for a third party to capitalize on, though.

Nothing is wrong with your memory, most of us where not happy with either of the parties. From what I gathered though it the parties where not just about taxes.. the idea behind them was also out of control spending.

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/23/2009 8:14:01 AM

Mezrem

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I grew up hearing about part of my family comming here. I was told how they had not a pot to piss in nore a window to throw it out of. They came and where welcomed. They worked hard and became citizens. They struggled to learn english and provide for a better future for thier children. Like it or not crossing into our country without permission is illegal. I have no problem with people wanting to come here legally. To come though and work... pay no taxes... get money from us in the form of health care or social programs.. yeah I have a hell of a problem there. Do I understand why they do it.. sure. I also know why people steal from others.. it does not make it right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ienigma777

What is it with you and 'illegal aliens' ? You slam the hell out of the 'wetbacks' every chance and opportunity you get. Don't you want Mexicans to make a living, like anyone else? OR...is it better to Legally' send US Industries, like the Auto Industry to China, Legally give a Big Ol' Bush Bailout so GM and the like; so they can reinvest, Legally' in building their plants in China, Brazil, and reimporting and selling their junk back to us at higher prices.

So a mexican wants a decent living, so, what's it to you? Your Bush sure made sure those CEO's got a decent paycheck...and for failing at their jobs, destroying the economic base of the US and the world; and giving the US industrry to China.

n. It was legal...

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/23/2009 8:21:14 AM

CruelNUnsual

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Gigs, I think you are making my case for me about how the Democrats and powers that be are going to really misread what the statement was.

Theres no question they are, just like they misread the tea partys, aided by a media that wanted to portray it as a bunch of fat old white guys and organized by Fox News.

Perhaps you'd like to take another look at what I said. I didn't make any characterizations of the no tax folks, other than to say that they are the only folks who are passionate about this issue. I didn't misread the statement made by the vote in CA, nor that of the tea parties.

Perhaps youd like to take another look at what I said. Unless you're media I never said you made any characterizations about them, nor did you say anything about the tea parties that I recall.

However you are dead wrong about the turnout being an indication that people didnt care enough to show up. These props were dead from the day the deceptive brochures were published and the low turnout reflects that. Water cooler conversations have been passionate since the beginning of the budget debate and especially since the increase in sales and auto taxes the Failurnator was elected to stop.It has been that way at all levels of income because of the sales and auto taxes and there is no one that it doesnt affect.

You have totally misread the "statement" made by the vote in CA.

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/23/2009 8:47:21 AM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs
I understand the whole no-taxes thing.

         And that is the misread, Gigs. The measures were a whole range of financial shenanigans. For example, a tax measure passed a few years ago (iirc) that created a special fund for mental health programs. One of the items Tuesday would have allowed Sacramento to use that money for anything but the purpose it was intended.

       Now we certainly pay high taxes in California, and they come at us from everywhere. That will obviously breed some resentment, but we are a liberal state, and voted plenty of them in (see above). Very often, the Legislature will just call it a 'fee'-increase, and drop it in our laps. (It was $180 to register my car this year, next year it will likely be over $400. Fees.)

      Our little tax revolt wasn't about how much they take, Gigs. It was about how they behave with it. Some might call it an intervention. Some will call it anything they can think of, that will allow them to ignore it.

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/24/2009 9:18:19 AM

MmeGigs

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I understand that this is about spending as well as taxes. In a nutshell, it's that a heck of a lot of people feel like they're being screwed. I'm sure that the Republicans do understand this, and will be hitting the "tax and spend" thing pretty hard. Democrats will be vulnerable on this issue, and will have a difficult time coming up with a message that these folks will buy.

What I was responding to was the idea that this is a really big deal. I don't think it is. None of this is new or unprecedented. I don't think that it will translate into a shift in support for either party. I think that come Nov 2010 it will play no larger part in the elections than it has in past elections. If it does, I think that it will be in the form of strengthening a third party bid. I wouldn't be surprised to see some strong Independence Party candidates for house seats here.

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/24/2009 11:07:49 AM

Lorr47

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quote:

And its about time. And California doesnt need to end the "social contract with its citizens", it just needs to end the social contract with illegal aliens.

We agree on something?

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/24/2009 11:14:00 AM

CruelNUnsual

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

And its about time. And California doesnt need to end the "social contract with its citizens", it just needs to end the social contract with illegal aliens.

We agree on something?

We've disagreed on something?

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/24/2009 11:36:05 AM

Lorr47

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

And its about time. And California doesnt need to end the "social contract with its citizens", it just needs to end the social contract with illegal aliens.

We agree on something?

We've disagreed on something?

Maybe I am mistaken. Months ago I had arguments with another; although in retrospect we probably did not disagree on much substantive. We usually ended up arguing on implementation of policy. Someone said that person is now under your name. Probably not. On most issues I am ultra liberal. However, in about ten categories I diverge significantly including the waging of war, war crimes, gun control and illegal aliens. As far around the bend as I am politically there is no problem in taking a step over into Doc Savage's office occasionally.

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/24/2009 12:35:04 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

And its about time. And California doesnt need to end the "social contract with its citizens", it just needs to end the social contract with illegal aliens.

We agree on something?

We've disagreed on something?

Maybe I am mistaken. Months ago I had arguments with another; although in retrospect we probably did not disagree on much substantive. We usually ended up arguing on implementation of policy. Someone said that person is now under your name. Probably not. On most issues I am ultra liberal. However, in about ten categories I diverge significantly including the waging of war, war crimes, gun control and illegal aliens. As far around the bend as I am politically there is no problem in taking a step over into Doc Savage's office occasionally.

Lorr, I'm the same way. I have no problem with gay marriage, legalising certain "substances" of a vegerative category, having a national healthcare program for all citizens that cuts out the middleman insurance companies, having programs that do away completely with homelessness in the U.S. and many other things like that.
However, we elect and hire people to serve in our government for a reason, to do the job! And to enforce our laws.
I don't know *where* this type of thinking comes from that enforcing our laws is "optional" especially our immigration laws.
As I've said many times we need "job-descriptions" in government. There is no "excuse" other than corruption that we currently have *millions* of illegal aliens in the U.S. None.

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/24/2009 2:12:47 PM

CruelNUnsual

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

And its about time. And California doesnt need to end the "social contract with its citizens", it just needs to end the social contract with illegal aliens.

We agree on something?

We've disagreed on something?

Maybe I am mistaken. Months ago I had arguments with another; although in retrospect we probably did not disagree on much substantive. We usually ended up arguing on implementation of policy. Someone said that person is now under your name. Probably not. On most issues I am ultra liberal. However, in about ten categories I diverge significantly including the waging of war, war crimes, gun control and illegal aliens. As far around the bend as I am politically there is no problem in taking a step over into Doc Savage's office occasionally.

Nope, not me. I've never posted here under another name (unless it was an isolated incident thinking I was under this name), and Ive only been here since mid-March or something like that.

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/24/2009 4:10:14 PM

Lorr47

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quote:

Lorr, I'm the same way. I have no problem with gay marriage, legalising certain "substances" of a vegerative category, having a national healthcare program for all citizens that cuts out the middleman insurance companies, having programs that do away completely with homelessness in the U.S. and many other things like that.
However, we elect and hire people to serve in our government for a reason, to do the job! And to enforce our laws.
I don't know *where* this type of thinking comes from that enforcing our laws is "optional" especially our immigration laws.
As I've said many times we need "job-descriptions" in government. There is no "excuse" other than corruption that we currently have *millions* of illegal aliens in the U.S. None.

I am at a total loss about many things "our" government does or does not do. When I saw people walking down the streets of a major US city carrying a flag of a foreign country and bitching that the US does not give them enough I was more than a little turned off.

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/25/2009 12:22:11 AM

ienigma777

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Been off planet for the last 8 years eh. You'll let us know when your space ship lands.

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/25/2009 12:34:32 AM

ienigma777

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So, they are poor ass bastards, not CEOs who lick the Bush Boot for BILLION dollar Bailouts...which your Grand children will pay on. This illegal wetback thing is a diversion; focusing attention from the Corporations bleeding America dry, with their bailout free money.

When they are found out, no green card, they're sent back. It's an on going problem every prosperous country has to deal with.

What ever happens, the socialization of industry, happens because of the Bush era. There is no other way to go, to salvage what Bush has destroyed.

I see you've been off planet for eight years as well, like that other chap.

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/25/2009 1:04:59 AM

ienigma777

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777 to off planet chappers, come in CruelNunsual.....

http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/all/gms-plans-to-offshore-

http://www.economicpopulist.org/?q=content/gm-offshore-outsour

If the addresses are off, well, goggle it yourself.....you do have goggle capabilities on the ship you'r on; don't you.

Yup, Mr. Obama is to blame for 'socializing'...who brought the country to it's current state of bankrupcy?????

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/25/2009 1:17:50 AM

CruelNUnsual

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ienigma777

Been off planet for the last 8 years eh. You'll let us know when your space ship lands.

Nope, been in the same place you have. The difference is I actually understand things, instead of cutting and pasting talking points and zinging snappy one liners.

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/25/2009 1:26:38 AM

CruelNUnsual

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ienigma777

777 to off planet chappers, come in CruelNunsual.....

http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/all/gms-plans-to-offshor
http://www.economicpopulist.org/?q=content/gm-offshore-outsour

If the addresses are off, well, goggle it yourself.....you do have goggle capabilities on the ship you'r on; don't you.

Yup, Mr. Obama is to blame for 'socializing'...who brought the country to it's current state of bankrupcy?????

It isnt in bankrupTcy, yet. Blowboys 10 trillion of debt may do that though. As far as how we got to where we are, Clinton with the repeal of Glass-Steagel and his changes to the CRA are at the top of the list, closely followed by the entire Democrat party for protecting Raines as he was overseeing the meltdown of FNMA.

But Im sure the economics is beyond your ken. Edit: As your next post proves.

< Message edited by CruelNUnsual -- 5/25/2009 1:28:46 AM >

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/25/2009 1:27:00 AM

ienigma777

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I never said it was right......and I will not be accused of HI-Jacking this thread.....it would appear, that California's poor turnout, according to Popeye...stemps from the wetbacks costing CA a bundle....there be your hi-jacker.

Those illegals take the jobs, you won't do, and don't want to do...like cleaning toilets, and they are NEEDED, WANTED by the US employers who exploit the hell out of them simply - because they ARE illegal. They (those certain US employers) want them here. Any Latino who is a CEO, is a citizen, I'm willing to bet...you most likely do not find 'wetbacks' as CEOs.

"Like it or not, crossing into our country without permission is illegal"...Ah yes, but that was not the issue, the issue was the money being spent on them, they earning 100,000 per year? (illustration)....oh please.....whatever, is spent on them, in medical treatment etc....PAILS by comparision to the 'LEGAL' thievery, of the Bush Administration....The Trillions spent on his war, and the subsequent depletion of our rights, the Bailouts, which will be paid by your childrens grandchildren; Mr. Obama's solicalizing? Please .....and popeye worries about some wetback who cleans toilets, taking away a job some american doesn't want to do.

India doctors come here on work visas, make a ton of money, send a good chunk back to India....or become citizens make a ton and go back to India.....Just an example, not meaning any derrogatory statements to the Indians.....just an illustration, of how the game is being played.

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RE: A great big "Oh, HELL no!" - 5/25/2009 2:42:01 AM

Loki45

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ienigma777

I never said it was right......and I will not be accused of HI-Jacking this thread.....it would appear, that California's poor turnout, according to Popeye...stemps from the wetbacks costing CA a bundle....there be your hi-jacker.

Firstly, I'd like to point out that the term you use is blatantly racist and as far as I can see, you're the only one using such derogatory racial terms. We're not.

Secondly, I have issue with the following statement you made:

quote:

ORIGINAL: ienigma777
So, they are poor ass bastards, not CEOs who lick the Bush Boot for BILLION dollar Bailouts...which your Grand children will pay on.

You see, first off I won't be having grand children. But that's really not the issue. The issue is you are taking issue that future generations will be paying, while we are concerned with that WE are paying. The measly 100,000 figure you causally tossed out is laughable and shows you haven't done a lick of reseach except the previously mentioned "talking points and one-liners."

You see, hospitals that service the illegal immigrant population, last I heard, shelled out upwards of $40 MILLION per MONTH for BIRTHS of illegal immigrants' babies. That's $40 MILLION for ONE type of procedure that "anchors" those illegals here. That figure doesn't even take into consideration the fact that illegals tie up the ER for anything from a sniffle to stubbed toe. It doesn't even ballpark THAT figure. It doesn't have to. $40 MILLION per month for ONE hospital is more than I want my tax dollars spending.

You are trying to argue two seperate issues. Don't feel bad. Many people with no valid point often resort to the old "apples and oranges" trick. Problem is it never works. You can be upset at bailouts. That's great. But don't sit there and say one is better than the other. The bailout might rob future generations, but illegals are robbing the CURRENT generation. And as time goes, the amount they are pilfering from us grows and grows while the amount the contribute shrinks and shrinks.

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