RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (Full Version)

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Fitznicely -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 10:18:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: trappedinamuseum
Perhaps the tone of voice, or the timbre of the conversation also has something to do with it.


Absolutely! Nonverbal communication doesn't come across too well here, I guess.



trappedinamuseum -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 10:20:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fitznicely


quote:

ORIGINAL: trappedinamuseum
Perhaps the tone of voice, or the timbre of the conversation also has something to do with it.


Absolutely! Nonverbal communication doesn't come across too well here, I guess.


Nor in texts or e-mails.  I find that is one of my greatest struggles - I misinterpret what he says quite often because of this.



Fitznicely -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 10:21:48 AM)

Much as I cringe at emoting in messages, sometimes it's just necessary [:D]



ACryFromTheSoul -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 10:25:28 AM)

oh hugs... your wonderful.

Trying to think of one that won't get the ball rolling in the other direction again. (eeek) 

I am talking about those little things a submissive does to just see if the dominant is still on top of things, still there, still active in the relationship mentally (things done unconsciously) .  I am not talking about deliberate actions, I am not talking about going against what he has asked of her (anything but)

it can be the tone she uses
it can be she might take more time then normal to do something (but still does it)
it might mean she looks around prior to doing something out of the ordinary in public

I am talking about the simple, little things... the things that don't affect the foundation. 

does that make sense...





agirl -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 10:26:24 AM)

My thoughts are, that *topping from the bottom* can only occur if it's *allowed*. I can try to top as much as my little heart pleases, it won't alter the fact that he IS on top.......and I'll only get to top if he lets me ..which isn't topping from the bottom anyway.

I actually don't care in the least that I might be called a *brat or a *manipulator*, or just *out for fun and games*.. I'm going to try to have things the way I want because I'm selfish ............and I don't LIKE it when things aren't the way I want. I'm stuck with someone who *carries on regardless*.

agirl





breatheasone -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 10:28:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ACryFromTheSoul

let me clarify my view on toping from the bottom:

example.. I asked my ex if I could have 5 minutes to clean my car before he got in. He said sure. I then turned around and asked if I could have 10 minutes instead. He said don't nickle and dime me... you now have 3 minutes.

And while I was not consciously to manipulate him, the fact that he called me out on it... I broke out in an unexpected smile on my end almost to the point of giggling... as it was thank you, thank you, thank you... for putting your foot down.

Also, I am not talking about deliberate acts, or intentional ... I am talking about those little things that do not affect the  foundation of the relationship.

In my opinion that was NOT topping from the bottom. Please be aware that SOME "D" types use the "you are topping form the bottom" cry to bemoan the simplest things like the example you sighted. To be blunt, SOME "s" types get FALSELY accused of "topping from the bottom"



Fitznicely -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 10:37:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ACryFromTheSoul

oh hugs... your wonderful.


*smiles and bows*
quote:


Trying to think of one that won't get the ball rolling in the other direction again. (eeek) 

I am talking about those little things a submissive does to just see if the dominant is still on top of things, still there, still active in the relationship mentally (things done unconsciously) .  I am not talking about deliberate actions, I am not talking about going against what he has asked of her (anything but)

it can be the tone she uses
it can be she might take more time then normal to do something (but still does it)
it might mean she looks around prior to doing something out of the ordinary in public

I am talking about the simple, little things... the things that don't affect the foundation. 

does that make sense...


This all comes firmly under the banner of cute, sweet and amusing [:)]



agirl -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 10:38:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ACryFromTheSoul

oh hugs... your wonderful.

Trying to think of one that won't get the ball rolling in the other direction again. (eeek) 

I am talking about those little things a submissive does to just see if the dominant is still on top of things, still there, still active in the relationship mentally (things done unconsciously) .  I am not talking about deliberate actions, I am not talking about going against what he has asked of her (anything but)

it can be the tone she uses
it can be she might take more time then normal to do something (but still does it)
it might mean she looks around prior to doing something out of the ordinary in public

I am talking about the simple, little things... the things that don't affect the foundation. 

does that make sense...





The only thing that would affect our relationship would be a total and utter refusal. Not one of those * I don't want to do this but I will, even though I'll hate you for a few hours* things.

If I refused to do something, then we ALREADY have lost the M/s relationship. TFTB would be the least of any concern. I can whine, I can whinge, I can try his patience in many ways , I can spit, I can fume , I can show-off, I can be ill-behaved.........but I cannot refuse AND and keep an M/s relationship.

agirl





NihilusZero -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 10:39:25 AM)

Obviously much of the issue would rest in the demeanor and intent behind this topping-from-the-bottom...but it's not something I'd find attractive under most of the presumptions you've outlined.

This is essentially an offshoot thread to a recent one started by DemonKia about how well "testing" is received (which strikes me as interesting as more people seem comfortable with the same premise made here, just being described in a different way). And while I argued, there, that such testing, when put into play at the beginning of the interaction phase between two people, can help uncover compatibilities, I made specific mention that such testing becomes an attempt at covert manipulation once the relationship has started.

Once a sub/slave is in a relationship with me, I would not tolerate for them to create scenarios so they can determine stuff  with subterfuge...things that, if they really needed to know, they should have ascertained before entering into a formal relationship with me.

A sub doing these things because she is whimsically playful and has no ulterior motive is one thing. A sub initiating these things becasuse they think they are charged with the task to temper/test/mold/maneuver my wishes and thoughts, on the other hand, would quickly get the boot from me.

Sure, we all learn things from the people closest to us in our lives...but I don't need those very people to be in my life (certainly not what should be an obedient sub/slave) presuming they are meant to take up the secret role of educating me on me through randomly fabricated scenarios meant to elicit my Dom reactions.



subangi -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 10:39:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ACryFromTheSoul

oh hugs... your wonderful.

Trying to think of one that won't get the ball rolling in the other direction again. (eeek) 

I am talking about those little things a submissive does to just see if the dominant is still on top of things, still there, still active in the relationship mentally (things done unconsciously) .  I am not talking about deliberate actions, I am not talking about going against what he has asked of her (anything but)

it can be the tone she uses
it can be she might take more time then normal to do something (but still does it)
it might mean she looks around prior to doing something out of the ordinary in public

I am talking about the simple, little things... the things that don't affect the foundation. 

does that make sense...



I think for most it is a round about fun way of getting a form of dominant acknowledgement for lack of a better term.  It is not meant to "top", or give disrespect.  One that usually ends up with both giving a grin, and a good feeling.



oceanwinds -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 10:40:57 AM)

Hi OP
First of all I wanted to give you a little encouragement for just posting. A word can have so many meanings, that the transition can get lost easily. So please do not think yourself a failure and continue to post. Heck my words garble a lot:)

If i understand what you are saying, it sounds like you are testing your Dom. to see if he is acknowledges his position with you. I am not sure how long you been in this relationship, or what is going on that you might feel like testing, but perhaps reflecting on that might give you some insight.

Just a thought. Again thank you for being brave and posting on CM



agirl -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 10:47:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ACryFromTheSoul

it can be the tone she uses
it can be she might take more time then normal to do something (but still does it)
it might mean she looks around prior to doing something out of the ordinary in public



....standard practise here on occasions. No *result* in mind, just expressing my disapproval.......LOL

agirl



ACryFromTheSoul -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 11:00:56 AM)

thank you for the encouragement... soft smile

The question is a general question, but one that I find myself in at times. And I think the reason why I used the word topping from the bottom the way I did, is my ex used that term in reference to what I described.

I think there is an additional aspect also, that sometimes the phrases that I use while fine in normal conversation in work/with family/friends, might not be altogether great in a d/s relationship.

hugs







ACryFromTheSoul -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 11:04:10 AM)

for you yes, for my ex not so much.

which might be one of the reasons why he is my ex. ... smile



ACryFromTheSoul -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 11:07:06 AM)

quote:

I think for most it is a round about fun way of getting a form of dominant acknowledgment for lack of a better term. It is not meant to "top", or give disrespect. One that usually ends up with both giving a grin, and a good feeling.



one would think that, but I don't seem find those particular dominants.

Hugs.



ACryFromTheSoul -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 11:11:12 AM)

Thank you, for everyone who took what started off as a horrible beginning , and helped me get it going in the right direction... smile

(whew )



IronBear -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 11:22:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone


In my opinion that was NOT topping from the bottom. Please be aware that SOME "D" types use the "you are topping form the bottom" cry to bemoan the simplest things like the example you sighted. To be blunt, SOME "s" types get FALSELY accused of "topping from the bottom"



On principle I agree with you from a logical point of view, having never experienced it or even seen it in any of the M/s dynamics I know.

What you do say however goes to validate my views of a clear and concise set of protocols for a dynamic which allows a slave (or sub) to draw the Master/Mistress's attention to something they have missed or that needs to be dealt with. Personally I give a slave the latitude to approach with such information I am lacking, reminders or even a suggestion of a better way to do something. This needs to be done respectfully and if I tell them to wait and approach me again when I have finished doing what ever it is I am busy with, he or she batter have a jolly good reason for persisting in trying to draw my attention to what ever it is they need to tell me. .. I value good staff/slaves and expect them to be alert and bring to my attention I may have forgotten or that needs my personal attention. This makes for a far better home and no micromanagement is needs with such gems..



oceanwinds -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 12:01:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ACryFromTheSoul

thank you for the encouragement... soft smile

The question is a general question, but one that I find myself in at times. And I think the reason why I used the word topping from the bottom the way I did, is my ex used that term in reference to what I described.

I think there is an additional aspect also, that sometimes the phrases that I use while fine in normal conversation in work/with family/friends, might not be altogether great in a d/s relationship.

hugs







Oh been there , done that, and i am sure to repeat that again:)

hang in there sweetie



NihilusZero -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 12:01:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ACryFromTheSoul

I am talking about those little things a submissive does to just see if the dominant is still on top of things, still there, still active in the relationship mentally (things done unconsciously) .  I am not talking about deliberate actions, I am not talking about going against what he has asked of her (anything but)

Unless someone is having trouble controlling themselves in the simplest of senses, how does a sub do something "just to see" and have it not be "deliberate"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ACryFromTheSoul

it can be the tone she uses

This seems deliberate to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ACryFromTheSoul

it can be she might take more time then normal to do something (but still does it)

Again, deliberate. And irreverent for the sake of...what? Seeing the reaction to irreverence?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ACryFromTheSoul

it might mean she looks around prior to doing something out of the ordinary in public

Confused by this one. Too vague.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ACryFromTheSoul

I am talking about the simple, little things... the things that don't affect the foundation. 

You can't answer the question at the very same time you are requesting people's views on it. What you are asking is if these things would "affect the foundation" (and why). If you have marginalized them to where they do not already, then we're talking in circles, essentially asking:

"Would it upset you if your sub did something that wouldn't upset you?"

For me, some of the antics you've described would affect the foundation.



NihilusZero -> RE: Shouldn't a submissive try to top from the bottom? (5/26/2009 12:14:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

You can't answer the question at the very same time you are requesting people's views on it. What you are asking is if these things would "affect the foundation" (and why).

...which got me thinking that this thread is, then, an ironic and subtle example of that very type of deliberate (or not) TFTB.



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