RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (Full Version)

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sirsholly -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 1:37:03 PM)

yanno...all this talk about the opposition to gay/ lesbian relationships/marriage makes me think of one particular biblical passage...Matthew 7:1-2

Judge not lest ye be judged.

*i love it when the bible thumpers forget this one*



Truthiness -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 1:38:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

There's nothing bigoted about my stance,


Like I said.. none so blind.

quote:

and b) My stance includes absolutely zero discrimination and equal rights for anyone.


It only calls for equal rights which you 'allow'. Big difference. That might not be your stance. I don't know. But it is what you wrote. Own your words or not, that's up to you.


As I said, you should familiarize yourself with the word "'allow"...one meaning of which is to "acknowledge."

Right now, the OP is ranting that the government wouldn't give permission in California for gays to wed. My stance (as stated) is that noone should need permission.



Truthiness -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 1:40:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

yanno...all this talk about the opposition to gay/ lesbian relationships/marriage makes me think of one particular biblical passage...Matthew 7:1-2

Judge not lest ye be judged.

*i love it when the bible thumpers forget this one*



Hence why I'm not judging. It's others being quick to judge me for my beliefs.



Aylee -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 1:41:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

yanno...all this talk about the opposition to gay/ lesbian relationships/marriage makes me think of one particular biblical passage...Matthew 7:1-2

Judge not lest ye be judged.

*i love it when the bible thumpers forget this one*



I was always particularly fond of:

"Albert, stop telling God what to do." ~ Niels Bohr



BitaTruble -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 1:43:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness


Maybe you should familiarize yourself with the different definitions of "allow"...one of which means to "acknowledge."

hmmm...

"appreciate my wanting to compromise to allow them equal freedom on the matter."

"appreciate my wanting to compromise to acknowledge them equal freedom on the matter."

Nope, that doesn't make sense. Backpeddle didn't work, dude. If you're going to be posting here, get used to being called on what you write, not what you meant to write.

You don't need to compromise to acknowledge we have equal rights.. but you would need to compromise to allow them if it goes against your chosen belief system.

[8|]





Truthiness -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 1:48:05 PM)

No, the "compromise" is in how to do it on a government level...compromising between equal freedom and not wanting the government to codify something in support of sin.

"my wanting to compromise to acknowledge they have equal freedom on the matter" makes a lot of sense to me if having a remotely open mind on it.



sirsholly -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 1:50:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

yanno...all this talk about the opposition to gay/ lesbian relationships/marriage makes me think of one particular biblical passage...Matthew 7:1-2

Judge not lest ye be judged.

*i love it when the bible thumpers forget this one*



Hence why I'm not judging. It's others being quick to judge me for my beliefs.
yep..not you. Everyone else [8|]

Your posts sound extremely judgmental against homosexuality...you judge your gay "friends" as sinners.




Truthiness -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 1:52:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
you judge your gay "friends" as sinners.




No I don't. To say so just shows a lack of understanding of my beliefs. I'm equally a sinner, but don't hold myself in judgement over it; that's not my job.



DreamGoddess666 -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 1:59:40 PM)

I'm sorry, but those who oppose gay marriage (and if the semantic nonsense is so important, I'll add "and still supports straight marriage", though those who are against all marriage completely are an insignificant minority at best) are, by the very definition of the term, bigots. You are putting into law something that which forces your belief on unwilling and innocent people, a pure form of oppression. This IS bigotry, and thus those who support such measures ARE bigots.



maybemaybenot -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 2:21:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

. You are putting into law something that which forces your belief on unwilling and innocent people, a pure form of oppression.


I swore I wasn't gong to read this trainwreck of a post, but ya know....

1-No....  the law already existed. It was about changing an already existing law.

2-No... it is not forcing anyone's belief on you or anyone else. No one can make you subscribe to a belief system. It was a vote. People vote for all different reasons and I am sure many voted without a religous foundation backing their vote.

I could be wrong on number two. Have the California Christians begun kidnapping gays and dragging them  to church and brainwashing them ?

                                       mbmbn



RCdc -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 2:32:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness
It takes some digging but it's explained Bibically why homosexuality is a sin; and it's not just because God thinks it's icky.



I pretty much kept out of this thread after my initial posting, because calling death to a whole community pretty much sucks for me - on any side.  But give me religious reference and I'm there.
 
It's my calling.[;)]

Some very rough translations in the OT can possibly be linked to calling out homsexuality as a big ole sinbin.  But Jesus did not condemn homosexuality.  In fact, he physically healed a boy who had a high probability of being a homosexual.
 
But hey, feel free to ignore scripture if it suits ones agenda.
 
the.dark.



Truthiness -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 2:35:36 PM)

Romans 1 was pretty critical of homosexuality too and explains it's origin. As a friend of mine who extensively studied Greek and Hebrew translated it, using his own version of "Snark" to translate to, it basicly says "If you turn away from God he will make you gay and kill you".

And yes, II'm well aware Jesus healed and stuck up for sinners, as should we. I'm aware Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the prostitute saying "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

I'm also aware that he told her after "Go, and sin no more."



Domin8tingUrDrmz -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 2:39:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I wonder how many of those who defend marriage according to religious principles and accord marriage thus as having deep religious meaning to them also make pure recourse to religious principles upon divorce, as opposed to seeking redress through the civil processes which they appear to hold irrelevant to the notion of marriage?

E



I also wonder, if those who claim marriage belongs to religion, why is that atheists are allowed to legally marry? If atheists, anti-religious persons are allowed to marry, then marriage belongs to the people, not the church. Hence all should be permitted to marry, or no one should be permitted to marry.



jlf1961 -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 2:41:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

I'm sorry, but those who oppose gay marriage (and if the semantic nonsense is so important, I'll add "and still supports straight marriage", though those who are against all marriage completely are an insignificant minority at best) are, by the very definition of the term, bigots. You are putting into law something that which forces your belief on unwilling and innocent people, a pure form of oppression. This IS bigotry, and thus those who support such measures ARE bigots.


By your logic, any law that prohibits someone from having the same rights and privileges as the majority of the people is bigoted.

The problem with this logic is that there are laws that prohibit various rights to convicted felons, and force restrictions on other convicted criminals, such as the laws that require sex offenders to register where they live.

There is also a law that prohibits people who were not born American citizens from becoming president.

Now while I have nothing against gay marriage, there is a simple fact that you have not considered.

In a republic, such as the United States, (the US is NOT a democracy) the majority of people elect representatives to government office to make laws for the MAJORITY of the citizens.  Whether you like it or not, majority rules, and the majority of the citizens in the United States still have problems with gay and lesbian marriage.

While there is widespread acceptance of the lifestyle choice, there are still limits to how far that acceptance will go. 

Finally, be thankful that the 'sodomy' laws are not being enforced,  since those laws prohibit any sex act other than vaginal penetration between men and women. 

By the way, those laws are still used when prosecuting sex related crimes.

So quit pissing and moaning and advocating armed violence against the government, get over yourself and wait until the rest of the country is more tolerant... or you can move to a country that allows gay and lesbian marriage.



RCdc -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 2:46:31 PM)

Jesus also 'changed' the law.
See, this is where christianity gets a bad wrap.  People get so wrapped up in the laws of the teachers and scholars that God used to relay his shit, which they ignored anyway that they forget that Jesus came along and tried to make it a hell of a lot easier for people to be exactly what he created them for.
 
Yes, and I know, Jesus rebuked people for thinking that the old laws were obsolete and chastized them for thinking he was the easy way out.  But that whole speach wasn't so much about remembering old, misrepresented laws but more about not denying where they came from.
It's like, just because you are wearing rubber boots, doesn't mean it's ok to now stick your fingers in a socket.
 
Oh and the whole comparing the homosexual servant to a prostitute?  Not so good.  Jesus never called him a sinner.  Never called him out for his homosexuality.  He healed him because his 'master' had more faith in the fathers ability to heal than most christians had and have in their little finger.
 
Oooo... spooky.  Hows that for faith without works?*takes a bow - bouddomtish - drumrole please*[;)]

 
the.dark.



RCdc -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 2:51:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I wonder how many of those who defend marriage according to religious principles and accord marriage thus as having deep religious meaning to them also make pure recourse to religious principles upon divorce, as opposed to seeking redress through the civil processes which they appear to hold irrelevant to the notion of marriage?

E



I also wonder, if those who claim marriage belongs to religion, why is that atheists are allowed to legally marry? If atheists, anti-religious persons are allowed to marry, then marriage belongs to the people, not the church. Hence all should be permitted to marry, or no one should be permitted to marry.


I believe it was covered in this thread by someone else, but really, marriage isn't a religious ceremony.  If it was, then it would only be held in religious buildings.  As it is, it's about law.  I agree with you, you don't have to be religious to get married and that pretty much defaults the whole 'gays shouldn't marry' shit anyway.
 
the.dark.



beargonewild -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 2:52:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nelly33

i disagree with the edit... a main point is that gays want the same state given rights as hetero marriages... seems like the state is involved whether they want to be or not.


Realize that in this present society that the state is involved in this,  people like me have to use the system to our advantage. Until such time there is another way, we have to work with what we have at present.



RCdc -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 2:57:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

Romans 1 was pretty critical of homosexuality too and explains it's origin. As a friend of mine who extensively studied Greek and Hebrew translated it, using his own version of "Snark" to translate to, it basicly says "If you turn away from God he will make you gay and kill you".


Just to add, and not wanting to edit.
I have no idea what snark is, but I a going to assume until you correct me, that you are meaning a translating tool?
Didn't your teachers ever tell you to never use an online translator to translate anything?  Truthfully, go use any translator if you are multi lingual in any way and find out.
 
And I have to say, if the biblical scholars for hundreds of years cannot and could not translate the bible correctly into english or any other language, what possibility has a computer translator?
 
the.dark.




beargonewild -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 3:04:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

dcnovice, you owned that one, bravo! [:)]

The majority should NEVER be allowed to oppress the minority. When that happens, it's time to fight for what's right, fight against oppression, fight for freedom!


But the minority should be allowed to oppress the majority?



CD....please rethink this. This issue is NOT the minority to which I belong in trying to oppress the majority. It is trying to get the majority to modify and accept the minority.
When you ask a question such as that, you imply that the minority is attempting to change the majority's way of thinking to our way, this is not so, we just want the equality and full acceptance into a society which perceives us as degenerates, filth and an abomination against the natural order of things. If we were trying to oppress the majority of the heterosexuals, then you'd see us using terrorist tactics in order to convert and subvert you to my way of living. The majority of us LGBT people simply want to co-exist in peace and have all rights and privileges that the heterosexual population have and are given: simply because you are attracted and sexual with the opposite sex.



RCdc -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 3:09:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: yourdarkdesire

Well - I keep trying to stay awy from this train-wreck - but for some reason I can't. The problem I'm having keeps popping up and deals with CHRISTIANS opposing homosexuality. Why this intent on only the christian population of the world? What about the Jews? What about the Muslims? What about the Hindus and the Buddists? You can't keep pointing the finger at the Christian community and making blanket statements. If you could, then I would be able to say that all Male, Catholic Priests are Homosexual Pedophiles! Why not try talking about "Modern Society"?


Because it's uncool to persecute the jews! (It's ok, Jesus was an exception).
Weird thing is, the only real references that people tend to point to come from the OT.
Um.  Point 1.  Christians follow who again?
Point two.  And the OT was.....
 
But meh.  Pagans had it a while back.  Jews already got fucked over.  Christians and Muslims are the 'in' thing to beat up at the moment.  But no worries.  That will be basically uncool in a maybe less than a hundred years.  I am going to make a prophecy....(oh how presumptuous of me).  I'll lay bets that Hinduism will be the next cool target, give or take the next 50-100 years.
 
the.dark.



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