Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (Full Version)

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Owner59 -> Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/26/2009 8:27:11 PM)


Petraeus speaks out.


"I think, on balance, that those moves help [us]," said the chief of U.S. Central Command. "In fact, I have long been on record as having testified and also in helping write doctrine for interrogation techniques that are completely in line with the Geneva Convention. And as a division commander in Iraq in the early days, we put out guidance very early on to make sure that our soldiers, in fact, knew that we needed to stay within those guidelines."

[:D]

How long before the right throws Gen. Patraeus under the bus?

[&o]



MrRodgers -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/26/2009 9:49:34 PM)

Why am I not surprised ?



Aneirin -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/27/2009 11:00:49 AM)

GTMO needs to be resigned to the history books of not what to do to people as soon as possible and all those who had fun in the name of interrogation of suspected, untried, unconvicted people need to spend some time looking out from cages themselves. What went on at GTMO, is an abomination not worthy of the American people and of those who underwent such experiences, accused of being terrorists and jihadists, if they were'nt then, I wonder if they are now, or even sympathetic. GTMO did the U.S. no favours, and might even have changed some people's perspectives of what the U.S. is about.



MarsBonfire -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/27/2009 3:15:53 PM)

And another republican hero breaks with the pack, waking up from the kool aid they've all been drinking for seven and a half years.



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/27/2009 3:22:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
GTMO did the U.S. no favours, and might even have changed some people's perspectives of what the U.S. is about.


Might? It definitely changed mine. I don't know if I'll ever be able to look at my country, and the people who live here, the same way again. It wasn't just the fact that my government did it, but the fact the reason they were able to do it was because of the utter cowardice of so many of fellow citizens, who were willing to accept any moral outrage as long as it made them feel just a little bit safer. I'll be a long time in forgetting that.



servantforuse -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/27/2009 3:51:16 PM)

Now all you have to do is find someplace to put them once Gitmo is closed.The Democrats won't release funds to close it because they don't want them in their states and prison system. Our friends overseas also want nothing to do with taking these terrorists. A big problem for Obama who might even change his mind on closing it. He even has left the door open for "enhanced interrogation" in the future..



popeye1250 -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/27/2009 5:06:01 PM)

I want it closed too.
Just shoot all the prisoners as spies and close it.
It's a good Naval Base though, been there many many times and had fun horseback riding and fishing.
When you went to "The Club" at night though and it closed they'd load everyone into "cattle cars" a semi trailor truck with a cattle trailor on the back and take everyone back to their ships. Hot as hell and you just prayed that no-one started puking!



snappykappy -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/27/2009 5:11:13 PM)

i was also there back in 71 and it was listed as the best base overseas to be at
u could also go to haiti, puerto rico, jamaica and just before i left to miami

best place to drink was in the cuban village and they had drinks the size of small juice glasses but the cost was 25 cents and the best sandwiches for 50 cents

the cost of a fifth of booze was no more than a dollar so you can see what the tax is with the cost of booze now

used to go do windmill beach and drank lots of salty dogs

also had a paddle wheel pontoon boat and went out to the mouth of the bay and fish

the shelf would drop off like going off a building but had great times down there



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/27/2009 6:52:56 PM)

~FR~

Too bad Obama's hands were tied by a Democrat led congress eh?



CruelNUnsual -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/27/2009 9:51:32 PM)

Why would anyone want to throw Petraeus under the bus when what he said (and Obama's position) is identical to the GOP position?

"Mr. Bush said in 2006 that he would like to close the detention center. He said Thursday the fact that the facility is not closed is proof of how difficult it will be for Mr. Obama to follow through quickly.
"All I can tell you is that I have said I'd like to see Gitmo closed, this is about three years ago I said that, and we have worked very hard to put tribunals in place, for example, as a way to adjudicate some of these cases. And you've noticed how slow it's been," he said. "





subrob1967 -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/28/2009 5:03:05 AM)

Again, Hyde Park in Chicago is a lovely neighborhood for the Gitmo Terrorists.

What happened to Betrayus? Oh thats right he became Obama's golden boy.



NihilusZero -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/28/2009 6:50:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
GTMO did the U.S. no favours, and might even have changed some people's perspectives of what the U.S. is about.


Might? It definitely changed mine. I don't know if I'll ever be able to look at my country, and the people who live here, the same way again. It wasn't just the fact that my government did it, but the fact the reason they were able to do it was because of the utter cowardice of so many of fellow citizens, who were willing to accept any moral outrage as long as it made them feel just a little bit safer. I'll be a long time in forgetting that.


50 points.



Aneirin -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/28/2009 1:07:25 PM)

Seeing as the held people in GTMO have not been tried, proven guilty or whatever, put them back where they were taken from and close the detention centre. Yes back to Afghanistan, if they are terrorists, they may continue their actions and find their truth on the battlefields. If they are not terrorists, they might just make their way home as many claimed they were doing in the first place. But given their experiences in GTMO, I would not be surprised if all of them had a lot of anger to get out.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/28/2009 2:20:12 PM)

As has been mentioned in other topics on this:

1) Some of those countries will not have them back.
2) The US is prevented by UN Treaties, from sending them to countries that may torture (yeah go figure) or kill them.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Seeing as the held people in GTMO have not been tried, proven guilty or whatever, put them back where they were taken from and close the detention centre. Yes back to Afghanistan, if they are terrorists, they may continue their actions and find their truth on the battlefields. If they are not terrorists, they might just make their way home as many claimed they were doing in the first place. But given their experiences in GTMO, I would not be surprised if all of them had a lot of anger to get out.



Aneirin -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/29/2009 6:11:55 PM)

Well, if that is the case, the U.S.has got itself into a bit of a pickle then, perhaps this should have been thought of before they detained these people. Either try them, or let them go, keeping suspects indefinately is just plain wrong and of course, the world is watching.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/29/2009 8:44:56 PM)

Well we are here now, so it has to be dealt with. What I find disturbing is that even under the current President it is being mentioned that some of these detainees will never be released. What is more disturbing is that some blindly follow him, and were up in arms when Bush was talking like that.

It was a Democrat that had a provision put in the budget that was just passed, that prevents any funds being applied to move the detainees on to US soil, for any reason. That pretty much forces military tribunals, and possible indefinate detention.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Well, if that is the case, the U.S.has got itself into a bit of a pickle then, perhaps this should have been thought of before they detained these people. Either try them, or let them go, keeping suspects indefinately is just plain wrong and of course, the world is watching.



Aneirin -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/30/2009 7:44:24 AM)

Then if indefinate detention without trial or conviction is where the U.S. wants to go, then it has just consingned to the past all it's tennants of freedom and justice. Something all of you, in fact all of us should be aware of, for the passing of such bills in times of so called tension removes the freedoms our ancestors fought and died for.

So called anti terrorist laws that have been brought into existence in recent years have turned freedom into an idea, not an actuality, none of us are free, perhaps never were in entirety, but now, even less so, we have in effect gone backwards, not forwards. Just to think, anything can be labelled a security threat by the powerful when ultimate power is wanted, be that for political, financial or other means.

But as to those terrorists that initially woke up the Western World to what has now become a war with the West sending their loved ones to fight and die in the supposed home lands of terrorism, what was their initial aim, and did they achieve it, perhaps they did, for we all now suspect our own countyrmen of being the enemy, anti terror laws prove this. The idea of one nation being looking forward has changed to one nation, looking everywhere, even at our closest neighbours.

If they sought chaos in the western world, they have largely achieved it, old laws and ideals have been consigned to past.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/30/2009 9:48:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Then if indefinate detention without trial or conviction is where the U.S. wants to go, then it has just consingned to the past all it's tennants of freedom and justice. Something all of you, in fact all of us should be aware of, for the passing of such bills in times of so called tension removes the freedoms our ancestors fought and died for.


I do not disagree, and that is why it bothers me that this may be continued by another President. Then there is the side of me that says "If two Presidents, privy to information that I do not have, make the same decision, then there may be a good reason for it.".

quote:


So called anti terrorist laws that have been brought into existence in recent years have turned freedom into an idea, not an actuality, none of us are free, perhaps never were in entirety, but now, even less so, we have in effect gone backwards, not forwards. Just to think, anything can be labelled a security threat by the powerful when ultimate power is wanted, be that for political, financial or other means.


They have not been blatantly used, but the existance of them is something I do not like. I hope some of that will change soon, but I am not holding my breath. These things set bad precedent, and are open to abuse, as has been illustrated by the previous admin.

quote:


But as to those terrorists that initially woke up the Western World to what has now become a war with the West sending their loved ones to fight and die in the supposed home lands of terrorism, what was their initial aim, and did they achieve it, perhaps they did, for we all now suspect our own countyrmen of being the enemy, anti terror laws prove this. The idea of one nation being looking forward has changed to one nation, looking everywhere, even at our closest neighbours.

If they sought chaos in the western world, they have largely achieved it, old laws and ideals have been consigned to past.


I think this may be better in it's own topic, so I will not respond and derail this topic.



MissSepphora1 -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/30/2009 6:41:13 PM)

I suggest they transfer all Gitmo detainees to a prison in Georgia. 



whatsupsub -> RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture (5/30/2009 6:52:56 PM)

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