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RE: Taking Shanksville land for a memorial - 5/30/2009 9:51:00 AM   
OrionTheWolf


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Thank you for more examples of government theft.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

That would be the right of the land owner. This country was founded on the principles of land ownership. Now you are creating a hypothetical to justify government abuse, which is a rather shaky justification of an improper action. Regardless of whether you agree with the land owners morals/ethics, if they are not breaking the law then they can do as they wish. It is called being consistant in upholding rights from the US Constitution.

Yeah this is not Gitmo, so folks are justifying this abuse of rights. Hypocricy wins again.

This isn't abuse, this is a fairly classic application of eminent domain. Want to guess how many US national parks include land condemned through eminent domain proceedings? How about all the land flooded by the TVA? Do you think that was all bought from willing sellers?



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RE: Taking Shanksville land for a memorial - 5/30/2009 12:23:49 PM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roselaure
There seems to me to be a difference between using Eminent Domain to appropriate land for a legitimate public purpose with a tangible societal benefit (rural electrification) and appropriating land for a memorial.


This was the sentiment I was trying to express in my OP but you have stated it much better. Thank you.

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RE: Taking Shanksville land for a memorial - 5/31/2009 2:18:16 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

Since there wasnt really a crash and theres no debris, why do they even want it?
...oh sure. And those of us who live there did not smell the burning jet fuel?


You live there and smelled burning jet fuel?
 
I googled "burning jet fuel" Shanksville - and all hits on the first page claim an absence of burning jet fuel.

i also heard it said there was no fire/smoke, and no debris. All of that is false.


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RE: Taking Shanksville land for a memorial - 5/31/2009 3:04:16 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

Since there wasnt really a crash and theres no debris, why do they even want it?
...oh sure. And those of us who live there did not smell the burning jet fuel?


You live there and smelled burning jet fuel?

I googled "burning jet fuel" Shanksville - and all hits on the first page claim an absence of burning jet fuel.

i also heard it said there was no fire/smoke, and no debris. All of that is false.

Where did you hear that? I just now googled Shanksville "no fire/smoke" and got only two hits, only one of which said "No fire. Smoke but no fire" - and that proved to be not about Shanksville, but about one of the WTC towers. Can it be that you are misinformed?
 
In any case there definitely was some debris - but that is not evidence of said airplane having been there. Only an entire, recognizable wreck of an airplane is evidence of such an airplane.

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RE: Taking Shanksville land for a memorial - 5/31/2009 3:44:06 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Where did you hear that? I just now googled Shanksville "no fire/smoke" and got only two hits, only one of which said "No fire. Smoke but no fire" - and that proved to be not about Shanksville, but about one of the WTC towers. Can it be that you are misinformed?

In any case there definitely was some debris - but that is not evidence of said airplane having been there. Only an entire, recognizable wreck of an airplane is evidence of such an airplane.
Rule, we live pretty close to the sight. I have never googled it...never wanted to. What i was saying was basically word of mouth....the rumor mill, et al.

I can tell you first hand there was smoke and there was the smell of jet fuel..as per the person i was with (i had no clue what jet fuel smelled like)


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RE: Taking Shanksville land for a memorial - 5/31/2009 4:41:01 AM   
barelynangel


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I am torn on this -- while i can see the idea of a memorial, i can't see taking someone's land BY FORCE to be a symbol of what these people died for. The idea you are going to be causing someone to lose their land BY FORCE and be upset and feel as if they are being robbed by the very government for people who were victins -- they are by actuality to me making MORE victims to honor other victims. I mean this land is part of someone's HOME, i believe. Is it correct to tear apart someone's home in this instance, is it really a true representation of what they are trying to memorialize or is our own government in this case becoming the terrorist.

I personally, if i would ever visit there, would feel uncomfortable just KNOWING ANY of that land was taken by force, i really can't believe the families would want the government to FORCE someone to give up part of their home. To me, i believe if they do -- they are wrong, and are tainting the memory of their loved ones. The people who died there made a choice and they died, its very sad that to remember them the government wants to take away the right of choice an owner has with regard to his own land.


angel

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RE: Taking Shanksville land for a memorial - 5/31/2009 4:42:54 AM   
Rule


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I do not doubt that there was smoke - and where there is smoke, there usually is fire. I also saw a photograph of a few burned trees and such.
 
So you were present at the site shortly after the alleged crash and you smelled something and the person that stood next to you said that it was jet fuel?
 
I quote:
quote:

"Six days after 9/11, the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) began taking soil samples around the Flight 93 crash site, to test for jet fuel, hydraulic fluids, and other hazardous materials. At least three test wells were sunk to monitor groundwater for signs of contamination. [5]

According to the National Transportation Safety Board, Flight 93 had about 37,500 pounds of fuel remaining when it crashed, which was around 77 percent of its fuel load on takeoff. [6] Yet the DEP tests found no evidence of this huge volume of jet fuel at the crash site. Two weeks after the tests began, DEP spokeswoman Betsy Mallison reported that "no contamination has been discovered." [7] She said that, "whether it burned away or evaporated," much of the jet fuel assumed to have spilled at the site "seems to have dissipated." [8]

Faye Hahn was a local emergency medical technician whose company was quickly dispatched to the crash site. However, she has recalled, "Arriving on the scene" there was "no smoke, no fire." [10] Jeff Phillips, who worked at a nearby salvage yard, heard a colleague calling out, "Plane down, plane down!" and then headed out with another employee to locate the crash site. He has recalled, "We had to have been at least among the first 20 people" to have arrived there. Yet, he said, the crater where Flight 93 supposedly hit the ground "was just a spot that had a little fire on it, which was the airplane fuel burning." [11] And Lee Purbaugh, who worked at a nearby scrap yard, was also one of the first to arrive. Reportedly, he "scrambled down the bluff from the scrap metal company and ran 300 yards to the place where the plane had crashed." He found "a smoking hole in the ground. But why wasn't there more fire?" [12]

Are these tiny fires what we would expect if a large commercial aircraft had just crashed there? And could they really have burned up 37,500 pounds of jet fuel?............................................early witnesses at the scene noticed a particularly strong smell of jet fuel in the air. They later recalled this smell being "overpowering," "incredibly strong," "really strong," or "just horrendous." [19] According to Jere Longman, "The pungency of unburned jet fuel was so strong that it blistered the lips of investigators.""

End quote

So no significant fire, no ground contamination; indicating that a plane neither exploded in the air, nor crashed into the ground. Just a strong smell of jet-fuel in the air - which is not proof of said airplane having been there; only the entire, recognizable wreck of said plane constitutes such proof.

< Message edited by Rule -- 5/31/2009 5:01:10 AM >

(in reply to sirsholly)
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RE: Taking Shanksville land for a memorial - 5/31/2009 5:06:51 AM   
Arpig


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Don't bother Holly, you will never convince him. Even if you actually saw the plane crash, he would discount your story.

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RE: Taking Shanksville land for a memorial - 5/31/2009 5:48:25 AM   
Rule


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If holly asserted to have actually seen the plane crash, I would take that allegation most seriously, and if possible launch an in depth investigation into her background and any ties she might have to the kingpins of 911, as that in my eyes would make her suspect. As it is, I already considered it suspect that she was in the vicinity; so I have been wondering for a couple of years now about the person she was with at the time.

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RE: Taking Shanksville land for a memorial - 5/31/2009 7:47:16 AM   
Arpig


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Thanks for proving my point Rule

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Taking Shanksville land for a memorial - 5/31/2009 8:02:09 AM   
Rule


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Glad to have pleased and obliged you.
 
You USA people may also hire me to solve your crimes, as it appears your detectives botch the job. I propose to call my agency Rule's Bureau of Investigation, with the acronym RBI.
 
Rule 1 of the RBI Statutes of Investigation (SiO) will be: Everybody is a suspect.
 
In front of the RBI office a statue of silicium monoxide (SiO) will be erected.

< Message edited by Rule -- 5/31/2009 8:03:06 AM >

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 31
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