RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/2/2009 7:33:06 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Let us not forget the 1200 years of the crusades. Fanatics of any kind can be dangerous,

So what was the nationality of the assailant?

quote:

ORIGINAL: xiam

quote:

MissSepphora1: "...i don't think christians have waged a holy war on muslims or abortion doctors just yet."

Then you have no concept of history. And, FYI, the closest English translation of jihad is "struggle", particularly the struggle with one's own iman, translated most closely to "faith". "Holy War" has nothing to do with it, and Christians historically have had that strongest dibs on that.

At last count, there were a hell of a lot more Christians killing abortion doctors than Muslims and Jews combined. This is why someone cleverly coined the bumpersticker "God, please protect me from your followers."

Religion is beautiful, it is people who are ugly. I certainly didn't haul my puppies off to the pound when Berkowitz said "The dog made me do it." It's easy in that instance to see that it is the individual who is flawed, and not a far stretch in my mind from the current subject.

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/2/2009 7:47:03 PM

nelly33

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this thread is stupid... all religions have retards... and if you don't know about Islamic wars, then you're ignorant... most educated people do, and most non-educated people think they're all terrorists... i don't think anybody here says Islamic terrorists are better than terrorists of any other religion. /thread.

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/2/2009 8:12:23 PM

Arpig

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Seems to me that, according to the US legal definition, it isn't terrorism as I do not see how a soldier can be considered a noncombatant. That being said, that is the only real difference between this killing and the abortion doctor killing, the fact that the victims were not "non-combatants". This in no way makes one worse or a lesser outrage, it does however make a difference in legal terms. That's how I see it at any rate.

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/2/2009 9:08:30 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Let us not forget the 1200 years of the crusades. Fanatics of any kind can be dangerous,

So what was the nationality of the assailant?

quote:

ORIGINAL: xiam

quote:

MissSepphora1: "...i don't think christians have waged a holy war on muslims or abortion doctors just yet."

Then you have no concept of history. And, FYI, the closest English translation of jihad is "struggle", particularly the struggle with one's own iman, translated most closely to "faith". "Holy War" has nothing to do with it, and Christians historically have had that strongest dibs on that.

At last count, there were a hell of a lot more Christians killing abortion doctors than Muslims and Jews combined. This is why someone cleverly coined the bumpersticker "God, please protect me from your followers."

Religion is beautiful, it is people who are ugly. I certainly didn't haul my puppies off to the pound when Berkowitz said "The dog made me do it." It's easy in that instance to see that it is the individual who is flawed, and not a far stretch in my mind from the current subject.

Just wondering...knowing the history and economics during and prior to the crusades...would you still call all crusaders fanatics?

Butch

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/2/2009 9:35:09 PM

BamaD

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the crusades did not begin untill the 11th century if they lasted 1200 years they would still be going

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/2/2009 9:45:08 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Oops. Actually that should be 170 years, approxiamtely. There were periods of no activity, but it was from 1096 to about 1270 or so.

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/2/2009 9:49:33 PM

OrionTheWolf

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I would call much of their devotion fanatical, whether it was devotion to the church, God, or power.

I still wonder in all that is occuring with the Islamic faith, what has happened to the Sufi?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just wondering...knowing the history and economics during and prior to the crusades...would you still call all crusaders fanatics?

Butch

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/2/2009 11:15:51 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

QR
Seems to me that, according to the US legal definition, it isn't terrorism as I do not see how a soldier can be considered a noncombatant. That being said, that is the only real difference between this killing and the abortion doctor killing, the fact that the victims were not "non-combatants". This in no way makes one worse or a lesser outrage, it does however make a difference in legal terms. That's how I see it at any rate.

You might have something there, Arpig. If we go that way though, that he was attacking our military instead of non-combatents, then he was making war on his own country. We call that 'treason' here, and it is the only crime our Constitution defines. I'm not sure that is a better charge.

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/3/2009 5:43:00 AM

Crush

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In the US, we have Title 18,2331, which defines both domestic and international terrorism.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002331----000-.html

It doesn't really differentiate between a person committing a terrorist act in his own beliefs (see Unabomber) or a group identity committing those acts (see SLA/ELF/ALF/Al-Quaeda.)

It describes the purpose/intent of the acts that are committed. In brief, trying to influence/intimidate/coerce citizens/government through violence.

So both killers can qualify as terrorists. It comes down to intent...did they intend to i/i/c or was it an act of retribution?

And both are acts of cowardice, as is the case of most terrorism. They can't make their case through "civilized" discourse or influence. They resort to violence.

It doesn't mean they don't have valid viewpoints...it means they have crossed the line of behavior that is acceptable for persuasion.

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/3/2009 11:19:36 AM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1
Since philosophy was so quick to point out that there are so many christian terrorists in the US.

......i pointed out that they exist. not that there are 'many'. Feel free to find a quote of mine where i said that..........either that or apologise. i'll be waiting, but i wont hold my breath.

As for the OP......i condemn terrorists of whatever stripe.

Phil, that's good of you but, would you hesitate to call the Taliban "ragheads" for fear of "insulting" them or,....."hurting their feelings?"
What kind of "thinking" is that? A group that wants to destroy you and your way of life and some people don't want to, "offend" them?
Maybe those people think that if they don't "offend" the Taliban or Al Qeada they'll,....."go away?"
Oh, I know, just send them over some tollhouse cookies and all will be well, right?
It's simple to counter those politically correct anal-retentive goosesteppers, all you have to say to them is, "Hey, I'm *offended* by that!" lol
Their assholes pucker up tight as a drum!
On an episode of "The Sopranos" Tony's daughter asks him if he's in "The Mafia" on their way to Maine to check out a college for her.
He gets irate and says, "Hey that's a stereotype against Italian-Americans and I find it "offensive!" Then he looks away and smirks.
While in Maine he spots a rat in the witness protection program and garrots him to death.
Did you ever watch someone who's anal-retentive? They don't even realise that they're doing it!

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/3/2009 11:24:25 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Phil, that's good of you but, would you hesitate to call the Taliban "ragheads" for fear of "insulting" them or,....."hurting their feelings?"
What kind of "thinking" is that? A group that wants to destroy you and your way of life and some people don't want to, "offend" them?

...i don't call the Taliban 'ragheads' for fear of offending them. i refrain for a wholly different reason. In my opinion, calling them 'ragheads' is an imprecise term......it's lazy thinking. Only by avoiding lazy thinking can we ever hope to find a solution to terrorism of any kind.
You've been assuming what my reasons were.......but thank you for the opportunity to put you straight :)

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/3/2009 11:25:42 AM

Arpig

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quote:

You might have something there, Arpig. If we go that way though, that he was attacking our military instead of non-combatents, then he was making war on his own country. We call that 'treason' here, and it is the only crime our Constitution defines. I'm not sure that is a better charge.

If it fits the crime better, then I would say its the better charge.

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/3/2009 3:11:14 PM

MissSepphora1

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I wonder what Philosophy would do in a room blindfolded, gaged, with bright lights and men reading prepared verses in Arabic. Would it help to scream "I'm not with them! I don't agree with them! Hell I'm not even American!!"

PS... emergency Arabic - Ana canadi(ya) - I'm canadian (female)

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/3/2009 3:14:32 PM

Jack45

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So if a Jewish guy or a Christian guy commits a crime that indicts the whole religion?

I would wager that 90% of the murders and rapes in the US are done by Christians. Seriously. Must that be that Gospel of Jesus driving them all insane?

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/3/2009 3:18:28 PM

Jack45

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I still wonder in all that is occuring with the Islamic faith, what has happened to the Sufi?

The Sufis were the first Iraqis to take up arms in resistance to the US invasion. Don't mistake that tranquility for non-violence.
Speaking of which was I ever flipped out by BUDDHIST MONKS beating the crap out of each other in Thailand I think it was, and it was NOT an isolated case. I thought they OF ALL PEOPLE would have that chilling out thing down pat.

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/3/2009 5:37:35 PM

MissSepphora1

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Well I have a hard time believing this, but since Jews are only about 5% of the population, that would kinda make sense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jack45

So if a Jewish guy or a Christian guy commits a crime that indicts the whole religion?

I would wager that 90% of the murders and rapes in the US are done by Christians. Seriously. Must that be that Gospel of Jesus driving them all insane?

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/3/2009 8:04:27 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Wow. I did not know that. I must say that a Sufi Mosque, when I visited, was in comparison to a Buddhist temple. When speaking with a very knowledgable Sufi Cleric, I was amazed at some of the peaceful wisdom he had. I know they make up a very small percentage of the Islamic faith, but in times past they have been the ones that have assisted in quelling violence. Guess times are a chaging.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jack45

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I still wonder in all that is occuring with the Islamic faith, what has happened to the Sufi?

The Sufis were the first Iraqis to take up arms in resistance to the US invasion. Don't mistake that tranquility for non-violence.
Speaking of which was I ever flipped out by BUDDHIST MONKS beating the crap out of each other in Thailand I think it was, and it was NOT an isolated case. I thought they OF ALL PEOPLE would have that chilling out thing down pat.

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/3/2009 8:43:21 PM

Arpig

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I don't know if they were the first Orion, but they have certainly been active, as the results of a simple googling will show: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=sufi+resistance+iraq&meta=&aq=f&oq=

As far as the juxtaposition between what you heard from that Sufi cleric, and their actions in Iraq, one need look only to nearly any other religious group.

They all have teachings of peace and tolerance, and much wisdom to impart, and yet they are all also capable of astounding violence when they feel they (or their institutions) are in some way threatened. If violence on the part of a follower of a religion is to be used to somehow invalidate a religious teaching, then they are pretty much all invalidated.

Before somebody starts listing various fringe groups such as the Quakers, Mennonites, Baha'i, etc who have no record of violence, I will readily admit that such groups exist, which is why I said "nearly all".

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/3/2009 9:29:52 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

I wonder what Philosophy would do in a room blindfolded, gaged, with bright lights and men reading prepared verses in Arabic. Would it help to scream "I'm not with them! I don't agree with them! Hell I'm not even American!!"

PS... emergency Arabic - Ana canadi(ya) - I'm canadian (female)

....two points. If i'm blindfolded i can't see the bright lights. And if i'm gagged i aint screaming out anything.

Do you ever think before posting?

Oh, and third point........what was your actual point? Merely having a go at me or did you actually have something useful to add to this, or indeed, any other conversation?

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RE: Islamic Terrorist kills two in Arkansas - 6/4/2009 7:40:56 PM

MissSepphora1

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a) i didn't say you were screaming, i merely wondered if it would help if you did scream. which i doubt. b) if the lights were bright enough you would know. anyone who has been blindfolded knows that some light can come through. and you might also know from the heat.
The point is this: the extremists terrorists muslims aren't going to care if you're american or not, pacifist or not, sympathizer or not.
point is the british man who was beheaded recently. he was a tourist, not a soldier, not a government agent. he was in his 60s for God's sake. And they make an example of that? wow, we can behead an old man.
The point is, if you're western, you're not with them.

In this thread the "them" is anyone who would take a civilian and behead them with no other reason but to cause terror.

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