RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom?

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RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitmen... - 6/4/2009 6:03:09 PM

PeonForHer

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Joined: 9/27/2008
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Firstly, I agree that collars can be important - perhaps more so for subs than for dommes. That goes for titles and honorifics, too. Perhaps at some deeper level the sheer formality of all this it is 'regulating' and 'constraining'; thus, appealing to the sub mindset. Whatever. I like it a lot of it, anyway.

However, the following gets to a much more fundamental point:

quote:

AAkasha

As others have pointed out, a collar means whatever the two parties say it means. But what do you do in a situation like this:

Femdom: What does collaring mean to you? What does it mean to be owned?
Sub: It means x to me.
Femdom: Ah. Well, x is way too serious to me based on what I am looking for; it means y to me.
Sub: Ok that's fine, I agree with that, I can take that too. I meant to say a collar means x or y. Please collar me.
(one month later)
Sub: I am feeling uncomfortable, I need/want/deserve (list)/I am feeling uncomfortable because collaring means x to me.
Femdom: I told you when I collared you, it means y.
Sub: I know, but I was just saying that because I thought I could change how I feel, but I can't. Now what do we do?

Of course, that's a very watered down version, but people get what I mean.

I've a growing sense that there's an endemic problem in D/s that relates particularly to your line "a collar means whatever the two parties say it means". I do have a feeling that many people involved in D/s don't really, profoundly, accept that. Time and again I've read, or heard, of partnerships that have splintered because of assumptions that have gone unconveyed from one side of the partnership to the other.

The first part of the job is to know oneself; the second, to convey that knowledge to one's partner. Hmm. If I were a dominant, I'd set an awful lot of essays. I can't think of a better way to force oneself to look at one's own drives and assumptions. Hell, I think I'd write a lot of essays, as a sub, even if I weren't forced to.

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RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitmen... - 6/4/2009 6:58:13 PM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
But I really am hesitant to get a submissive's emotional attachments all wrapped up in a much bigger deal, the "collaring" the "being owned" and then just setting themselves up to get hurt. What I find is that submissives, especially ones who have wanted something a long time, will understate their needs or compromise themselves until later because they honestly feel they can change what they want and need and "something is better than nothing." They will downplay the significance of things or their level of needs initially, and then once they get emotionally way too involved, they confess that it's a much bigger deal and/or are getting hurt.

I am now in my third D/s relationship, and "collaring" in the relationships sense so far hasn't been involved at all. In my first, as a Domme for almost 5 years, he was my boyfriend and my submissive, but we didn't use a physical symbol, or even play with collars. In the second (I was in egalitarian kinky relationships in between) I was a submissive for 3 years, which ended in January. I was his girlfriend, and his submissive, but he didn't bring up collaring in a relationship sense. We did play with a collar frequently, and had a ritual around him putting it on and taking it off of me. I was never allowed to do so myself. I just became owned by EnslaverDom a few days ago, and he also asked me to be his girlfriend at the same time. We met a couple of months ago, and have had lots of discussions about submission, slavery, expectations, etc., but the subject of physical symbols or collaring in the relationship sense hasn't come up yet. We have played with collars, and again, have rules/rituals involving them, but only when he is physically present.

To me, collaring in the relationship sense would definitely involve a romantic and ownership connection, not just a playpartner, even if they were not casual. It sounds to me like the submissives you mention are engaging in a degree of self-deception. They aren't deliberately being dishonest, and they understand logically/rationally what is offered, but they want it so badly that they are willing to stuff their other needs down in order to satisfy that particular one.

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RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitmen... - 6/4/2009 8:04:56 PM

LyraLaLaurie

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Joined: 4/14/2009
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Probably like many others I had a collaring "itch" early in BDSM play. But as the dynamics of the relationship formed it became clear we were both still very much exploring, developing, and balancing. After that (and seeing other younger D/s couples struggle with it) I got very collar shy. Yes a symbol is just a symbol, but to me a collaring in the relationship symbolizes that the balance of power has settled to where both partners *know* it belongs. The only collared couples I've seen work out were much older, more experienced, settled in their lives/careers/etc.

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RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitmen... - 6/4/2009 10:48:58 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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I'm thinking that having the occasional "Collaring Itch" is a jolly healthy thing. I get it watching those 20 something, shaking nubile bodies on CMC or wandering about shopping centrers.. My first thought is "Dommee or sub/slave?" the next thought is usually in the style: "Sheesh, she would look so good kneeling naked, chained and collared at the feet of a Master." Nice thoughts and then the business at hand takes over and those thoughts are forgotten in the reality of life. Good looking guys get the same treatment and often both Neets and I will comment to the other ther "Collar Material" is passing by....

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RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitmen... - 6/4/2009 11:06:55 PM

sweetsub1957

Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
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~Fast Reply~
i don't think collaring is necessary for a committed relationship. i used to want to be collared so badly i thought about it all the time. Then, when i met Sir i forgot all about it.....He and the relationship were more important to me than any collar. But one evening, He showed it to me and asked me if i'd wear it. Now it only comes off in the shower (it's leather). To me, it's a daily reminder of Him & my submissiveness to Him (like i need a reminder, lol), and it represents commitment on both sides (which really would be there, collared or not). His collar is not a magickal thing, it's a representation and reminder to me of other realities.

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RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitmen... - 6/5/2009 7:35:54 AM

KateyCaine

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Joined: 5/7/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

The Problem with collars is that they mean so many things to so many different people. It is so hard to come to an agreement because even when you think you have explained what it means you cannot account for what the other believes.

I see Collars as being a symbol of my responsibility to the other individual. They do not mean Love, but they can mean love, they do not mean permanent, but they can mean permanent.

I look at the process of collaring someone as me saying "I take Responsibility for our relationship" However collaring isn't always about a collar. In fact I have collared a few women who never actually got a physical collar because the bond was in the mind where it always should be as locks can rust and leather break the bond in the mind can last forever if it is nurtured so.

That being said, Define what your play partners WANT in a collar, if they want more connection to you than you are comfortable with than the relationship has grown larger than you wish and should be terminated. It is sad but there are times when one has to let their slave go because you can no longer give them that which they NEED and for some the Need is Love and Companionship. If you are not willing to do that then you cannot give them what they are hopeing to one day get from you.

Steel

I agree with you completely. A simple item like a collar may mean something to one person; however it may have a whole different significance to another person. If a person has fallen deeply in love with the one that is collaring them, then the collar will mean for them a symbol of love and commitment - it will reflect their own feelings and mean what they want it to mean. I say this from personal experience: make sure when you put a "play collar" on a submissive or slave, you have made it clear what your feelings may or may not be. For me, BDSM is a very emotional thing and involves a lot of trust and giving over of oneself to the other party, and sometimes you can develop deeper feelings for a Dominant/Master without realising that this is occurring. That is one thing that I have learned - love can't tell the difference, the heart wants what it wants. If you don't feel, or know that you will never feel, what they are hoping you will eventually feel, I advise against going any further.

Master Charles and I are in different countries and have never met face to face or been in the same room together, yet the bond i feel that I have with Him is that strong. i have no doubt whatsoever about the depth of my love and respect for Him, and my trust in Him. This is because we have both done the groundwork over almost a year and established that we BOTH want the same thing, and feel the same love for eachother. We were best friends on the Official Saw Forum (believe it or not!) before we realised that there was something else there, something beautiful and loving. Prior to the addition of emotions, I had previously confided in Him things that I had not told anyone else, I knew I was that accpted unconditionall and loved. He calls me AT LEAST once a day, even just to ask how I am, and make sure I am okay,

He hasn't put a collar around my neck physically yet ( a bit difficult to do that over a phone line across continents!), however, i take what we have as seriously as if He had done so. As far as i am concerned, i belong to Him in my heart, where it matters. Leather can break, locks can rust, that is true, but our emotional and spiritual bond endures.

k.

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i wear His collar on my heart; and wherever i am, i know He is with me.

His love and my devotion and service to Him are stronger than leather or steel.

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