Is ***FREEDOM*** A good Thing to be TAKEN from You?

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Is ***FREEDOM*** A good Thing to be TAKEN from You? - 6/5/2009 7:49:01 PM

popeye1250

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People of the IRISH persuation don't think so.
What say YOU?

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RE: Is ***FREEDOM*** A good Thing to be TAKEN from You? - 6/5/2009 7:53:59 PM

cpK69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

People of the IRISH persuation don't think so.
What say YOU?

Freedom is not about taking, at all, but about giving up.

Edited to add: as in; responsability.

Kim

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 6/5/2009 7:56:36 PM >

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RE: Is ***FREEDOM*** A good Thing to be TAKEN from You? - 6/5/2009 8:11:38 PM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

People of the IRISH persuation don't think so.
What say YOU?

Never is.

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RE: Is ***FREEDOM*** A good Thing to be TAKEN from You? - 6/5/2009 8:30:10 PM

popeye1250

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P.S. ***HONEST*** people only.

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RE: Is ***FREEDOM*** A good Thing to be TAKEN from You? - 6/5/2009 8:49:42 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

People of the IRISH persuation don't think so.
What say YOU?

Popeye, in America and many other countries also, "Freedom" has been slipping away for years.
Most people don't even realize how much "Freedom" they may or may NOT really have.
When I look around at many other countries, I still say we STILL have more "Freedom" than most countries.

I don't see that how we can have the same amount of "Freedom" that we had prior to 9/11,
and keep the United States relatively safe.
I remember going to the airport and checking in and boarding a plane in about 30 minutes prior to 9/11, it was almost as easy as getting into a taxi!
9/11 and the 2 or 3 wars that we have going on these days, have changed many of the rules of the game, forever.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 6/5/2009 9:51:25 PM >

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RE: Is ***FREEDOM*** A good Thing to be TAKEN from You? - 6/5/2009 11:27:14 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

People of the IRISH persuation don't think so.
What say YOU?

Popeye, in America and many other countries also, "Freedom" has been slipping away for years.
Most people don't even realize how much "Freedom" they may or may NOT really have.
When I look around at many other countries, I still say we STILL have more "Freedom" than most countries.

I don't see that how we can have the same amount of "Freedom" that we had prior to 9/11,
and keep the United States relatively safe.
I remember going to the airport and checking in and boarding a plane in about 30 minutes prior to 9/11, it was almost as easy as getting into a taxi!
9/11 and the 2 or 3 wars that we have going on these days, have changed many of the rules of the game, forever.

Mia, you're off on a tangent!
I mean ***AMERICA*** only.

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RE: Is ***FREEDOM*** A good Thing to be TAKEN from You? - 6/6/2009 6:38:45 AM

Musicmystery

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popeye,

No, she's not. Internment camps here during WWII, McCarthyism, conditions the led up to the Civil Rights struggles--freedom has been tenuous here for quite some time.

And for almost a decade, people have nodded in approval while more rights are taken, defending the decision with fear in the current context, ignoring the long term potential for abuse.

Besides, your question is vague, sweeping, and clearly a rhetorical device, not an honest inquiry.

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RE: Is ***FREEDOM*** A good Thing to be TAKEN from You? - 6/6/2009 7:01:44 AM

Crush

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We trade our personal freedom all the time.

However, there are some really bad deals lately people have been making....

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RE: Is ***FREEDOM*** A good Thing to be TAKEN from You? - 6/6/2009 7:44:28 AM

LadyEllen

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define freedom

much is made here of personal responsibility et al, liberty and all that; very often applied to the idea of being able to stand on your own two feet, and often as an attack against the apparently indolent and just as often as an attack against the idea of social welfare provision.

yet consider; taking a job, working for someone else to provide for oneself - this is not freedom or liberty, but a limited form of bondage whereby one gladly gives up one's freedom in order to eat. Neither is this personal responsibility - it is actually an abandonment of personal responsibility to sell oneself to another; it is the employer that has demonstrated personal responsibility in founding a business.

Yet even this paragon of apparent virtue is no such thing, for he is often indentured to the banks and always indentured to his customers - in fact if he has a family depending on the business he is even less virtuous than the employee slave, for he sells not only himself but his family into bondage. and by extension so do the bankers and the shareholders.

We can only conclude then that this freedom thing is an elusive quality in all this, and so it is because we are all, whether we like it or not, interdependent social animals. And we all trade our independence for something more pressing, without much consideration of higher philosophical principles, recognising that we are only each free within the context of the limitations of our situation.

The problem we have is solely when it is others who are deciding what freedoms we should give up for the benefit of those others. This is what is occuring in the EU right now (including Ireland, who are being asked to vote to give up freedom again, having made the "wrong" choice the first time) and what is occurring in the wider western world as our glorious leaders redefine our freedoms without reference to us, yet seem to go unaffected thereby.

E

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RE: Is ***FREEDOM*** A good Thing to be TAKEN from You? - 6/6/2009 8:57:35 AM

CruelNUnsual

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Most ridiculous post of the day

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

define freedom.

yet consider; taking a job, working for someone else to provide for oneself - this is not freedom or liberty, but a limited form of bondage whereby one gladly gives up one's freedom in order to eat. Bullshit. Commerce isnt any form of bondage. If you want to go out and hunt and farm and build your own shelter and not work for someone else you are perfectly free to. In fact it is precisely the opposite. Commerce gives you the freedom to pursue your interests and talents and still provide for yourself, instead of the necessity of hunting/farming/building.

Neither is this personal responsibility - it is actually an abandonment of personal responsibility to sell oneself to another; it is the employer that has demonstrated personal responsibility in founding a business. Maximizing your talents and abilties is in no way an "abandonment of personal responsibility"

Yet even this paragon of apparent virtue is no such thing, for he is often indentured to the banks by choice

and always indentured to his customers -you have a strange defintion of "indentured" if you apply it to customers

in fact if he has a family depending on the business he is even less virtuous than the employee slave, for he sells not only himself but his family into bondage. and by extension so do the bankers and the shareholders. bullshit since the original premise is wrong

We can only conclude then that this freedom thing is an elusive quality in all this, and so it is because we are all, whether we like it or not, interdependent social animals. yes, so elusive it totally eludes you

E