RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (Full Version)

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amishbill -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 11:42:58 PM)

I think we enjoy it because, as others have said, we go into it knowing that the ending will be some flavor of satisfactory. I also think that it's partially the highway rubbernecker syndrome. The curiosity and thrill of watching something otherwise awful from a safe distance.

To go a level deeper, lets look at the illustrated stories from Dolcet. (sp?) I'm fairly certain that even the most hardcore painsluts would not want to star in a real life version of those, but many people find them quite arousing.

Just like kids playing cops & robbers with toy guns, these others are mental flights of fancy.




DragonNphoenix -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 12:11:52 AM)


[/quote]


Old hell.. I looked up last week.. they brought back Rick Springfield too!!!!... OMG

Let alone Robert Scorpio... LMAO
[/quote]


Hush... I just finally got myself away from all the soaps....





ownedgirlie -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 12:21:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: DragonNphoenix


quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie




i have two words (names) for you: Luke and Laura

(anyone remember that?)


Now I feel old...






Old hell.. I looked up last week.. they brought back Rick Springfield too!!!!... OMG

Let alone Robert Scorpio... LMAO


OMG they're reaching. Damn. I'm gonna have to start watching again..... LOL (sorry folks, will stop)




bear372217355 -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 3:14:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

i'm really sorry yall... didn't mean to go off like that...

just a little touchy on the subject matter... didn't really mean for it to offend... nor have anyone feeling bad for me.. after thinking about it i tried to go back and delete it.. i was too late..

so again i'm sorry..


I wouldn't call it "feeling bad for you", I would call it compassion, empathy. I'm beginning to think starting this thread may not have been the enlightening venture I thought it would.

There is no reason for you to hide your past or your feelings. It merely shows that you are human and there is a reality to this topic. I do not feel bad for you. It hurts my very soul to know that one has been so traumatised by the acts of a monster and there lies the empathy or compassion.

My feelings on the literature, reguardless of its erotic intent/content, is that it makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't like it (due to certain reasons, I sometimes find myself reading these pieces before they can be posted on forums elsewhere), in the same way I don't like horror films, and to some extent play parties. I spent many years being intentionally cruel to people. I pent several years as a guest of the crown. Since then I have made it my mission to cause no one pain and try to prevent others from inflicting it (this lifestyle aside, as hard as that is). In some ways, I wonder if the position I have chosen is not in some way related to my past.




conscience -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 3:20:07 AM)

Why is it that certain people on this website feel the need to attack a total stranger simply because of their believes or opinions? We each of us have them. People can enter into debate on a posted topic without deliberately causing offense to each other. There is absolutely no neeed whatsoever to use obscenities or profanities or ridicule someone.Those that do so are the people who need too luck at themselves very closely for psychiatric or personality disorders. Each is entitled to their respective viewpoint without the need too insult each other. I venture to suggest that everyone should respect each other and agree to disagree without insulting someone and starting the inevitable flame war. For anyone who is attacked I urge them to resist the tempation to respond back in kind if at all. Only respond to those people that are sane,sensible,decent and measured in their response to your particular post,even if they have the opposite persepective to yourself. Those that perpetrate such attacks are the people who seek attention and not the people they pray on and claim seek attention. If they or ignored they will eventually go away because they will be bored that nobody is paying attention to them or joining in with their immature and childlike antics.






bear372217355 -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 3:25:46 AM)

What brought that on???

Did I miss something???




candystripper -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 3:35:05 AM)

Please don't apologise; i myself need reminding from time to time i do not live in a safety bubble.

candystripper




IronBear -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 3:42:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bear372217355

What brought that on???

Did I miss something???

quote:

conscience


No bear, conscience posted the identicle responce to another thread. I'd just forget it and post on Mcbear.......................

It's all in the game and how you play it!..........




bear372217355 -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 3:52:41 AM)

Thanx, I thought maybe it was in response to my post above it. So I edited my post, thinking that my brief response was taken the wrong way.

Thank you for the affirmation.




Oberonrex -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 6:37:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bear372217355

Do you find rape and/or non-consentual enslavement erotic or stimulating in literature?

And if yes....

Why is it ok in fantasy, but so repugnant in reality?


Literature: It can be, if done very well. Sturgeon's Law applies, and most is dreck. When I do read it, I can do so with detachment and analyze it with a clinical eye. I know that it is not real.

Reality: It is ugly, brutal, demeaning, and damaging -- the complete antithesis of that for which I have chosen to stand. Part of that comes from working through a trusted someone trying something with me one time. Part comes from seeing what has happened to others not as fortunate. Part comes from studying history.

Scene: It is not real. It is consensual. There are safety nets in place because you know you are tap dancing into a mindfield, and I mean that for both parties.

For me, I was lucky. It was a trusted figure in a trusted environment where I <i>SHOULD</i> have been safe (a home). I resisted, and once free, I made use of the fact that I had the option of sending a message via weapon. Message recieved. Most are not so lucky, and even the lucky ones deal with a lot. And, yes, there are days I wish I had shot both that person and one other that day, for I will always wonder who else they might have hurt after. Feh.

Will I do strong play? Yes, but I make damn sure about some things first and I monitor the heck out of myself and the other party. I have turned down some attractive opportunities because the play desired crossed my line on parts of this. A couple were over the play itself, and one or two were because despite the age of the people involved, I did not feel they could form true consent. I don't care if they are 70, if they lack the maturity and intelligence to form consent, they ain't playing with me.

Anything can be turned to or into a positive growth experience, but it is a heck of a lot easier to start with positive and go from there. Years back, a speaker at a BDSM group summed up a lot of how I feel. The topic was abuse versus what is done in BDSM. The way to tell them apart is easy. Abuse destroys. BDSM grows. Those with whom I scene or who enter my service may find themselves stiff, sore, bruised, or whatever; but, they have a positive experience and grow -- even if that growth is just a learning experience of "I never knew you could do X with Y." That is my choice, my dream, my goal for me and my House. I am not interested in breaking, damaging, or destroying. That is what rape and non-consensual acts do, they damage and destroy.

BTW, some of the best NC literature can be found in science fiction, under fan fiction, sub category "Slash." Sturgeon's Law applies there too, but the good stuff is very, very good and well written. The term "slash" comes from the way it was listed on boards as a title with the notation "CharacterX/CharacterY" (i.e. Kirk/Spock). They are mostly same sex pairings, and it is interesting to note that most of the male/male slash is written by females (I know a few of them, and can vouch that they are female), and that some/most of the female/female was being written by guys.

Sorry for the long reply. Really do need to get the safety switch installed on that button...




bear372217355 -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 6:50:03 AM)

np, excellent post.




LadyElizabeth -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 9:29:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

This is really not a Diss to anyone person.... nor to all...

But unless you've experianced kidnapping... rape... you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

There's no opinions here... there's no knowing what you will or will not do in said situations. It's one of lifes experiances... I pray to God.. that if you have never been through... you never do.. Make or female...

And if you have been though it... and have managed to move past it.. great... some do.. some don't... I live day by day now... even though I live the life of a submissive... and I pretty much do what happened to me during my rape.. it's all consentual now.. and personally helps me deal with it. But I still am leary... I still spook easily... I attack when jumped at when someone is playing...

I lived as a submissive before the rape.. I think is why I can still live the life I do live....


But untill you walk the shoes as a victim... there's no fantasy... only reality.... because not even your fantasies... can take you.. where reality takes you in this situation.

Sorry... if this offened anyone.. it wasn't really ment to.. guess just a touchy subject for me...


I can assure you that anyone with an ounce of compassion will not take that as "diss" or offensively.

As one who knows the very feelings that stir inside you, I can relate all too well. Try as we might, to stop it from infecting or effecting our lives, it seems to rear its ugly head from time to time. I know bear feels badly that he drew any bad memories in anybody, he just finds the whole concept of rape as a fantasy hard to deal with and wanted outside input to help him understand it.

For the most part bear goes out of his way to avoid causing physical situations that trigger any memories of mine. As much as I'm over it and have moved forward in life, I can cope with the effects it has had on me. At times I think he struggles with it more then I. My rape happened before I met him, but it hurts him still because he loves me.





truesub4u -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 10:01:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyElizabeth



I can assure you that anyone with an ounce of compassion will not take that as "diss" or offensively.

As one who knows the very feelings that stir inside you, I can relate all too well. Try as we might, to stop it from infecting or effecting our lives, it seems to rear its ugly head from time to time. I know bear feels badly that he drew any bad memories in anybody, he just finds the whole concept of rape as a fantasy hard to deal with and wanted outside input to help him understand it.

For the most part bear goes out of his way to avoid causing physical situations that trigger any memories of mine. As much as I'm over it and have moved forward in life, I can cope with the effects it has had on me. At times I think he struggles with it more then I. My rape happened before I met him, but it hurts him still because he loves me.





Lady Elizabeth....

please know that i ment nothing towards bear on this... I seen his post.. knew the meaning.. I seen that and that's why I wanted to make sure he knew in my next response I was so sorry if it seemed I was ranting on him... when I was actually ranting on the vulture that made me his victim..

Please express to bear it's not of his doing.... and look forward to reading more of his postings.. thoughts... opinions... etc.... both of you are a pleasure to read on here..

hop you liked the coffee too... (grinz)

or was it a martini?... i forget who i served what too now.. LOL




amayos -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 10:16:03 AM)



quote:

ORIGINAL: bear372217355



Do you find rape and/or nonconsensual enslavement erotic or stimulating in literature?





More often I find the descriptions limited and 'been there, done that' in my head. As a writer and extremely 'deviant' soul myself, I must admit that much of what titillates many readers falls short of doing the same for me.






quote:

ORIGINAL: bear372217355

And if yes....



Why is it ok in fantasy, but so repugnant in reality?



I believe we oft fantasize about things we cannot do or have in real life, but if were so endowed with the power to seek them without retribution, or taken in hand by idealized coincidences leading us to the acts as either Master or slave, tyrant or victim, we would embrace them passionately.

Your usage of the word 'repugnant' was excellent, and draws a line of distinction between those who are far less willing to blur the lines than others. I do not find the idea of nonconsensual slavery repugnant, rather something that cannot be attained in our social environment. I personally feel this way about many taboos and forbidden pleasures as well; I'm not shocked and sickened to admit my animal side desires something considered 'evil' by the mainstream.

Ironically, this makes it less of a big deal, too. Bottling it up and fragmenting your personality into locked rooms is what I consider ultimately far more dangerous and poisonous. Witness how the Devil keeps the church in business...





LadyElizabeth -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 10:22:49 AM)

The martini was excellent, who do I see for a refill.

You would have to know bear to understand the dyametrically apposed personalities he possesses(not like subject or conscience). Because of what he is, he can be borish and thought less at times, but because of his ancestry and the fact that he was raised by his Grandmother. He is very subserviant to women. He feels it is duty to protect them at all costs, that includes their feelings. Most of the resrictions he has on him in dealing with women at events are self imposed to protect my feelings. I'm extremely jealous and protective of my bear.

He knows you were not ranting at him, he just wishes that he had not stirred emotions in memory of an action that should not have happened to you in the first place. He'll be fine. Dispite his tuff, smartassed fasade, he's a huge teddy bear, it hurts him to see people hurting in anyway.

When he found out about what had happened to me and that it was someone that he knew, he chipped his own teeth from grinding them together in anger. I hate to sound so childish about him, but I had to hide every sharp object and his hunting bow, as well as talk him down from the very ugly place I first found him in, more then once.

Anyways, enough depression, where's my martini?




mistoferin -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 10:40:25 AM)

quote:

Why is it ok in fantasy, but so repugnant in reality?


This is very easy to answer....it's because in the fantasy version there is NO reality.

quote:

There lies my confusion on the literature though. Even fantasy up sets me. It's not something I am able to wrap my head around.


You're not alone. Not everyone gets off on the fantasy version either. I, for one, am repulsed by the notion that anyone could be aroused by even the concept of rape. I am sure that most likely has to do with my own personal experiences with the reality of it though. Can I understand why others can be titillated by such? Sure I can. For those who have never experienced the real version of it I'm certain that their mind sees it in a much different, more sexual light. Vulnerability can be extremely erotic and a rape fantasy can certainly get you in touch with that emotion. You might be surprised to know though that even victims of the real event have fantasies regarding it, many times going over their own victimization but changing it around to have a more positive outcome, or inventing a different scenario that somehow will counterbalance the horror of the real one.

quote:

I'm beginning to think starting this thread may not have been the enlightening venture I thought it would.


Don't feel badly for starting the thread, there is a lot to be learned and considered. I know that I shared some pretty graphic details of my own experience but please don't misunderstand...it's not like it made me agonize over bad memories. I have fully dealt with all my emotions relating to that event and can now state such facts with no more emotion than if I were relating to you about how I stubbed my pinky toe on the dog food container last week(damn I do have to move that to a better place). I related those details though in order so that some can see that there is a real side to the subject. Most times when someone says they have been raped, it goes no farther than that and the the listener has no more understanding of what the reality of that actually is. In truth, there are no words to express the terror and emotion of the facts, but sometimes the facts in and of themselves do give an understanding of sorts to the listener. Too often, women especially can have a false sense of security and believe that things like that only happen to other people and can't touch them as long as they behave in certain appropriate ways. Too often, those who have not been there can be judgemental in their thoughts about victims of such and by believing that they would have acted differently or done something differently it will somehow keep them safe from ever experiencing the reality of it. The truth is though that there is not one of us who has immunity for falling victim to a predator.

Speaking of the facts is not harmful....but keeping them in the dark can be. I thank you for bringing up the subject for discussion. Many people have the same confusion as you do yourself and I believe that many agonize or feel guilty over any feelings of arousal they may get from such literature. What they don't realize though is that it's kind of like comparing apples to oranges...while there may be some common similarities they are two entirely different things.




truesub4u -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 10:50:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bear372217355



I wouldn't call it "feeling bad for you", I would call it compassion, empathy. I'm beginning to think starting this thread may not have been the enlightening venture I thought it would.




Bear.. you had no way of knowing this would stir up anything.. in anyone at all.... so you are to have to keep on posting like you have been doing.. it' s just one of those that i wish i would of side stepped is all....

After re-reading and going through other postings.. it's a topic well worth the debating... it's interresting to see others thoughts on this as well.

my first post was a thought.. opinion.. it was my second one that i flipped on.. i look forward to your next thought post.. or opinion on others.. yours and Lady Elizabeth's.

Please hand Lady Elizabeth this martini.. sorry i'm not as good at these as veronica... but he's hiding right now... LOL.. my coffee is much better I think.. (grinz)








MHOO314 -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/11/2006 10:52:31 AM)

Sybil! back to your room, its time for your meds!




delectablepink -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/12/2006 9:44:05 AM)

~Opens CM Message board bar~

E/everyone can run a tab...but must keep jukebox playing.

W/who wants to wait tables?

delectable pink




KnightofMists -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/12/2006 4:38:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bear372217355

Do you find rape and/or non-consentual enslavement erotic or stimulating in literature?

And if yes....

Why is it ok in fantasy, but so repugnant in reality?



No.... Non-consensual... is often repugnnant in most cases.





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