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Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right-Win... - 6/12/2009 8:05:47 AM   
rulemylife


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Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right-Wing Extremism

The Big Hate - NYTimes.com



Back in April, there was a huge fuss over an internal report by the Department of Homeland Security warning that current conditions resemble those in the early 1990s — a time marked by an upsurge of right-wing extremism that culminated in the Oklahoma City bombing.


Conservatives were outraged. The chairman of the Republican National Committee denounced the report as an attempt to “segment out conservatives in this country who have a different philosophy or view from this administration” and label them as terrorists.


But with the murder of Dr. George Tiller by an anti-abortion fanatic, closely followed by a shooting by a white supremacist at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, the analysis looks prescient.


There is, however, one important thing that the D.H.S. report didn’t say: Today, as in the early years of the Clinton administration but to an even greater extent, right-wing extremism is being systematically fed by the conservative media and political establishment.


Now, for the most part, the likes of Fox News and the R.N.C. haven’t directly incited violence, despite Bill O’Reilly’s declarations that “some” called Dr. Tiller “Tiller the Baby Killer,” that he had “blood on his hands,” and that he was a “guy operating a death mill.” But they have gone out of their way to provide a platform for conspiracy theories and apocalyptic rhetoric, just as they did the last time a Democrat held the White House.


And at this point, whatever dividing line there was between mainstream conservatism and the black-helicopter crowd seems to have been virtually erased.


Exhibit A for the mainstreaming of right-wing extremism is Fox News’s new star, Glenn Beck. Here we have a network where, like it or not, millions of Americans get their news — and it gives daily airtime to a commentator who, among other things, warned viewers that the Federal Emergency Management Agency might be building concentration camps as part of the Obama administration’s “totalitarian” agenda (although he eventually conceded that nothing of the kind was happening).


But let’s not neglect the print news media. In the Bush years, The Washington Times became an important media player because it was widely regarded as the Bush administration’s house organ. Earlier this week, the newspaper saw fit to run an opinion piece declaring that President Obama “not only identifies with Muslims, but actually may still be one himself,” and that in any case he has “aligned himself” with the radical Muslim Brotherhood.



And then there’s Rush Limbaugh. His rants today aren’t very different from his rants in 1993. But he occupies a different position in the scheme of things. Remember, during the Bush years Mr. Limbaugh became very much a political insider. Indeed, according to a recent Gallup survey, 10 percent of Republicans now consider him the “main person who speaks for the Republican Party today,” putting him in a three-way tie with Dick Cheney and Newt Gingrich. So when Mr. Limbaugh peddles conspiracy theories — suggesting, for example, that fears over swine flu were being hyped “to get people to respond to government orders” — that’s a case of the conservative media establishment joining hands with the lunatic fringe.


It’s not surprising, then, that politicians are doing the same thing. The R.N.C. says that “the Democratic Party is dedicated to restructuring American society along socialist ideals.” And when Jon Voight, the actor, told the audience at a Republican fund-raiser this week that the president is a “false prophet” and that “we and we alone are the right frame of mind to free this nation from this Obama oppression,” Mitch McConnell, the Senate minority leader, thanked him, saying that he “really enjoyed” the remarks.


< Message edited by rulemylife -- 6/12/2009 8:08:12 AM >
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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 8:12:14 AM   
Sanity


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And so it has began. First you couldn't say it if it wasn't PC, now if it isn't leftist groupthink it's a hate crime.

Nice.

The icing on the cake though, is that Krugman's "White Supremacist" was a registered Democrat who railed against Bill O'Reilly and "Neocon" Jews.

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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 8:30:36 AM   
LadyEllen


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we have people such as reported over here too - we call them the BNP and marginalise them and their dangerous (and oh so appealing) rhetoric out, despite their recent Euro election success.

Losing the election, as I predicted at the time will come to be the best thing to happen to the Republican party in decades and all this heightened rhetoric coming from the emptiest barrels adhering to it is merely part of the process whereby the moderates within the party will see that they must seize back the party and make it a sane and sensible choice once again, by marginalising the crazies who rightly belong elsewhere.

The same happened to the UK Labour party - taken over as it was in the early 80s by the far left. The same happened to the UK Conservative party when it was briefly hijacked by what can best be described as the WASP contingent. Extremes are, as the word suggests extremes - they do not appeal to a majority and parties pursuing them are rarely elected to power in any fre and fair election system.

However, the Republican party must do more than simply distinguish itself from its extreme element - it must also maintain its central purpose and win back many of those who have identified with the extreme. To succeed in one but not the other is to risk the New Labour problem we find now - where the core vote deserts because a party has moved too far from its central purpose, allowing minority extremist parties like the BNP into affairs.

In the meantime, free speech is what it is - and such that these talking heads do not openly inspire violence they must be allowed to speak. As must those with opposing views, which I hope and trust will be the majority of US citizens, for if they now remain silent and allow such propagandists to gain and hold more ground then heaven help the west.

E


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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 8:43:21 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


And so it has began. First you couldn't say it if it wasn't PC, now if it isn't leftist groupthink it's a hate crime.

Nice.

The icing on the cake though, is that Krugman's "White Supremacist" was a registered Democrat who railed against Bill O'Reilly and "Neocon" Jews.


You've picked out one item in the article and ignored the main point.

When someone who is already on the edge, so to speak, hears a constant litany of hateful rhetoric by people like Limbaugh and even Jon Voight then that is very likely to drive him over the top.

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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 9:21:14 AM   
Cagey18


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
The icing on the cake though, is that Krugman's "White Supremacist" was a registered Democrat

Maybe, maybe not.  There was a von Brunn who was a Democrat in 1968, and that may not have been the same guy.

But it is clear 40 years later what this right-wing terrorist Jew-hating murderer thought about President Obama:
quote:

I don’t care what the liberals that voted for Obama think.
They put the bastard in office, they can live with him.
--Von Brunn, posting on right-wing website FreeRepublic.com

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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 9:24:23 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


And so it has began. First you couldn't say it if it wasn't PC, now if it isn't leftist groupthink it's a hate crime.

Nice.

The icing on the cake though, is that Krugman's "White Supremacist" was a registered Democrat who railed against Bill O'Reilly and "Neocon" Jews.


You've picked out one item in the article and ignored the main point.

When someone who is already on the edge, so to speak, hears a constant litany of hateful rhetoric by people like Limbaugh and even Jon Voight then that is very likely to drive him over the top.



rule,

I'm glad to see that you are finally speaking out against all those left wing nuts who insisted that Bush wasn't elected, and that just maybe that his assassination would simply be "just deserts", and that "dissent was the highest form of patriotism ...

Oh, wait ... you are talking about Obama and the right now ...

My bad.

Firm


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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 9:24:48 AM   
slvemike4u


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A typically "fair and balanced" reading of the op-ed Sanity....if nothing else you are a constant in an unstable world.
As for Krugman's op-ed.....I read it this morning and thought he was spot on.....words do matter,none of those cited in his piece add anything of value to the public discourse.While I do beleive a great portion of their audience can recognise that some of the more inflammatory statements are nothing more than posturing ,there is that fringe element that buys all the shit that is shoveled by these clowns.

_____________________________

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Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 9:39:09 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

rule,

I'm glad to see that you are finally speaking out against all those left wing nuts who insisted that Bush wasn't elected, and that just maybe that his assassination would simply be "just deserts", and that "dissent was the highest form of patriotism ...

Oh, wait ... you are talking about Obama and the right now ...

My bad.

Firm



That may have been something on a blog but I have never heard that from any major media outlet, CNN, CBS, Time, or the NY Times, and I'm sure you haven't either.

We have, by contrast, the inflammatory statements of right-wing, mainstream commentators listed above.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 6/12/2009 9:40:45 AM >

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 9:45:27 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

rule,

I'm glad to see that you are finally speaking out against all those left wing nuts who insisted that Bush wasn't elected, and that just maybe that his assassination would simply be "just deserts", and that "dissent was the highest form of patriotism ...

Oh, wait ... you are talking about Obama and the right now ...

My bad.

Firm



That may have been something on a blog but I have never heard that from any major media outlet, CNN, CBS, Time, or the NY Times, and I'm sure you haven't either.

We have, by contrast, the inflammatory statements of right-wing, mainstream commentators listed above.

hmmm,

So I guess "inflammatory statements" are statements that you disagree with? Dissent ISN'T the highest form of patriotism, after all?

Or are you saying that freedom of speech should only be allowed for those people for which you agree with?

Firm

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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 9:50:43 AM   
slvemike4u


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Might I take a shot at that Firm....my own point of view of course.
Freedom of speech is one of our most sacrosanct rights ,one that should never be lightly abridged.....but it comes with a responsibility to act responsibly.....and access to public airways to is not free and requires a heightened sense of responsibility.Something the Limbaugh's and the Beck's do not allways maintain.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 9:51:43 AM   
rulemylife


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No, what I'm saying is the same thing thing the article pointed out.

There is a difference between voicing dissent and creating inflammatory nonsense to pander to your listeners' biases.

From the link:

Exhibit A for the mainstreaming of right-wing extremism is Fox News’s new star, Glenn Beck. Here we have a network where, like it or not, millions of Americans get their news — and it gives daily airtime to a commentator who, among other things, warned viewers that the Federal Emergency Management Agency might be building concentration camps as part of the Obama administration’s “totalitarian” agenda (although he eventually conceded that nothing of the kind was happening).


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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 9:57:21 AM   
KaineD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


And so it has began. First you couldn't say it if it wasn't PC, now if it isn't leftist groupthink it's a hate crime.

Nice.

The icing on the cake though, is that Krugman's "White Supremacist" was a registered Democrat who railed against Bill O'Reilly and "Neocon" Jews.


Link?

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 10:04:17 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

rule,

I'm glad to see that you are finally speaking out against all those left wing nuts who insisted that Bush wasn't elected, and that just maybe that his assassination would simply be "just deserts", and that "dissent was the highest form of patriotism ...

Oh, wait ... you are talking about Obama and the right now ...

My bad.



I think you've got a good point. But if that's the case, then the only immediately apparent difference is that liberals appear to have the sense and the sanity not to flip out and commit acts of terrorism when their party is not in power, whereas for some reason conservatives seem far more likely to resort to terrorism. Why is that?


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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 10:12:12 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

No, what I'm saying is the same thing thing the article pointed out.

There is a difference between voicing dissent and creating inflammatory nonsense to pander to your listeners' biases.

From the link:

Exhibit A for the mainstreaming of right-wing extremism is Fox News’s new star, Glenn Beck. Here we have a network where, like it or not, millions of Americans get their news — and it gives daily airtime to a commentator who, among other things, warned viewers that the Federal Emergency Management Agency might be building concentration camps as part of the Obama administration’s “totalitarian” agenda (although he eventually conceded that nothing of the kind was happening).



It's not an article. It's a commentary.

You seem to have a problem distinguishing between commentary and "news" as well, since you are trying to compare political commentary from Rush et al to news coverage of NBC, CBS et al.

The air waves aren't really "free" btw, and regardless of what you've heard, they are actually controlled by the government. That's why illegal transmitters get you fines and jail time, and why the FCC can fine a broadcast network for something like the Janet Jackson-Superbowl-costume malfunction.

The "airwaves" are a government monopoly, and as the talk we have seen over the last few years have shown, if you piss off the government, the chances of you staying off the airwaves grow exponentially.

The difference between "inflammatory nonsense to pander to your listener's biases" and "dissent" is which side which side of the toast your butter is on, and often times as not, the government's control of the airwaves gives them the ability to place someone's comments on the side most helpful to their agenda.

Your (and Krugman's) political biases are currently "in". Doesn't make them right, nor does it make them accurate.

In fact, I could easily make the argument that you and Krugman are contributing to defining political dissent as a criminal act, and are therefore more dangerous than Rush et al to the health of our republic.

And, as far as the quoted portion of the commentary directly above ... did you actually see Glenn Becks show and exactly what he said? Did Krugman? Or are you - and he - interpretating something third hand, or leaving it out of context (a common ploy, btw)?

Firm

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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 10:16:06 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

rule,

I'm glad to see that you are finally speaking out against all those left wing nuts who insisted that Bush wasn't elected, and that just maybe that his assassination would simply be "just deserts", and that "dissent was the highest form of patriotism ...

Oh, wait ... you are talking about Obama and the right now ...

My bad.



I think you've got a good point. But if that's the case, then the only immediately apparent difference is that liberals appear to have the sense and the sanity not to flip out and commit acts of terrorism when their party is not in power, whereas for some reason conservatives seem far more likely to resort to terrorism. Why is that?


No offense panda, but is this a "fact" or simply your own personal bias?

You have scientific sample or study that we can dissect?

Firm

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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 10:30:24 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

rule,

I'm glad to see that you are finally speaking out against all those left wing nuts who insisted that Bush wasn't elected, and that just maybe that his assassination would simply be "just deserts", and that "dissent was the highest form of patriotism ...

Oh, wait ... you are talking about Obama and the right now ...

My bad.



I think you've got a good point. But if that's the case, then the only immediately apparent difference is that liberals appear to have the sense and the sanity not to flip out and commit acts of terrorism when their party is not in power, whereas for some reason conservatives seem far more likely to resort to terrorism. Why is that?


No offense panda, but is this a "fact" or simply your own personal bias?

You have scientific sample or study that we can dissect?

Firm


No, that's why I said "seems." It is, however, something that could probably be broken down with a bit of research. JFK, Martin Luther King.... Sirhan Sirhan probably cancels out John Hinkley... Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, various anti-abortion terrorists... of course, you do have the weather Underground, the SDS, and the SLA...  I dunno, maybe it's all a wash.

I'm reasonably comfortable assuming the research would bear me out, but I'm open to the idea that I'm wrong about it.  Either way, I wouldn't waste much of my own time doing the research for a debate on a forum where people seriously argue that Hitler was a liberal. 


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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 10:31:09 AM   
LadyEllen


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Men are so simple and so ready to follow the needs of the moment that a deceiver will always find someone to deceive.

your sig line says all that needs to be said on the subject of these right wing talking heads and their listeners Firm.

if you really cant discern between the tone they use and the tone used by their political opponents...... not the substance of each side but the tone, then further discussion must become rapidly more fruitless.

it is pandering, pandering to the lowest common human denominators, bereft of any higher thought or principle save for the craft employed in its fashioning and delivery.

there is nothing whatsoever wrong with Nationalism - or Republicanism as its known over there, except when instead of appealing to the Nation as a whole, it seeks by division to set a Nation against itself. And on this count, the Republican party must be found guilty by negligence, in allowing such dividers to gain such a strong voice and so much influence. 

throw them out. throw them all out. rebuild what ought to be the natural party of America into that mould. much of the reason for the appeal of such talking heads lies after all in the absence of any decent, well thought out counter argument to the Democrats, not in any real anger or hatred that exists. The longer this castrated Republican party continues in such empty rhetoric, the more anger and hatred will be generated in the vacuum and find expression in those most susceptible to its influence.

E

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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 10:49:27 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

No, that's why I said "seems." It is, however, something that could probably be broken down with a bit of research. JFK, Martin Luther King.... Sirhan Sirhan probably cancels out John Hinkley... Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, various anti-abortion terrorists... of course, you do have the weather Underground, the SDS, and the SLA...  I dunno, maybe it's all a wash.

I'm reasonably comfortable assuming the research would bear me out, but I'm open to the idea that I'm wrong about it.  Either way, I wouldn't waste much of my own time doing the research for a debate on a forum where people seriously argue that Hitler was a liberal. 


I did a little looking, but as you said, there would be a lot of room for spinning the research to give the result that one was looking for.

So, in effect, we agree to disagree. Your bias is that there are more "right" originated attacks. Mine is that there are more "left" originated attacks.

Neither of us can (or are willing) to actually back up our biases ...

Interesting links:

Weathermen

Domestic Terrorism in the US

Terrorism in the US


Unholy Alliances

Also, if you wanted to enter into a calm discussion about the issue, I might even grant your thesis for the sake of the discussion (there is more right wing violence in the US today than left wing violence), I think there are some interesting things to say about it.

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 6/12/2009 10:52:38 AM >


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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 11:06:41 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Also, if you wanted to enter into a calm discussion about the issue, I might even grant your thesis for the sake of the discussion (there is more right wing violence in the US today than left wing violence), I think there are some interesting things to say about it.

Firm


I think it would make for a fascinating discussion, but I know I won't have the time for it for at least 48 hours, and I'm not sure about Monday, either. So like so many times before, I have to pass on the opportunity to engage rather than start a discussion i know I won't be able to support. I hate being a hit and run poster, and I find myself being exactly that too often because of a busy schedule.

I would like to keep it in mind and pick it up again at some later date, though, and if i don't happen to spot you on the boards when I'm thinking of posting it, I'll drop you a line on the other side and see what your own schedule is like.


_____________________________

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In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
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RE: Krugman Slams Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh: Right... - 6/12/2009 11:12:44 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Also, if you wanted to enter into a calm discussion about the issue, I might even grant your thesis for the sake of the discussion (there is more right wing violence in the US today than left wing violence), I think there are some interesting things to say about it.

Firm


I think it would make for a fascinating discussion, but I know I won't have the time for it for at least 48 hours, and I'm not sure about Monday, either. So like so many times before, I have to pass on the opportunity to engage rather than start a discussion i know I won't be able to support. I hate being a hit and run poster, and I find myself being exactly that too often because of a busy schedule.

I would like to keep it in mind and pick it up again at some later date, though, and if i don't happen to spot you on the boards when I'm thinking of posting it, I'll drop you a line on the other side and see what your own schedule is like.


Not a problem.

My schedule is pretty much like yours in that I'm often so busy for lengths of time that I often hesitate to start in on a subject in detail.

It's an interesting concept, if we could manage to keep the "riff-raff" at bay ... or at least keep them from inflaming the discussion beyond all reason.

Firm

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