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Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 9:59:13 AM

FawneTwo

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Thoughts on recovered memory? Opinions please.

< Message edited by FawneTwo -- 6/12/2009 10:23:50 AM >

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 10:16:16 AM

leadership527

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Read the latest issue of Discover then forever more ignore recovered memories. Actually, depending on which sections you read, you may feel compelled to discard all memory and, for that matter, reality as you know it *laughs*. Damn that Stephen Hawkings.

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 10:22:25 AM

FawneTwo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Read the latest issue of Discover then forever more ignore recovered memories. Actually, depending on which sections you read, you may feel compelled to discard all memory and, for that matter, reality as you know it *laughs*. Damn that Stephen Hawkings.

Darlin', reality is tossed
Discover? OK, will read. TY kindly.

LOL

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 10:54:24 AM

antipode

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quote:

Thoughts on recovered memory? Opinions please

Sure - I just remembered how I hate one liners from people who obfuscate their profile.

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 11:33:28 AM

FawneTwo

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I never ever believed in it before because of the sensationalistic hype [ and weirdness and bs... ) we hear about.

a quote on forgetting from AllPsychOnline : Failing to remember something doesn’t mean the information is gone forever though. Sometimes the information is there but for various reasons we can’t access it. This could be caused by distractions going on around us or possibly due to an error of association (e.g., believing something about the data which is not correct causing you to attempt to retrieve information that is not there). There is also the phenomenon of repression, which means that we purposefully (albeit subconsciously) push a memory out of reach because we do not want to remember the associated feelings.

and I don't think it has to be bad. no judgement here, only curiousity

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 11:46:30 AM

oceanwinds

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Repressed memory doesnt disappear. Yes, I have had that happen to me where years have been forgotten. Yes, I have regained my memory. Why the lost? Trauma that occured in my younger years.. How did I regain it? I sought professional help. This is not the place to offer suggestions on how a person can regain their memory. To many pseudo thinkers with too many pseudo answers. So, I always suggest seek a professional if this is a concern to anyone, and check out the professional before you enter therapy with them.

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 12:55:03 PM

leadership527

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~FR~

The article in Discover will tell you that "memory" is probably not what you think unless you are a memory researcher. It turns out that it is rather easy to edit human memory and it can be done with a great deal of precision. Hence, "recovered" memories are highly suspect -- which is not to say they must be false, only that there is a great deal of question around them. Consider this:

"In support of this view [that recovered memories are frequently bogus] psychologist Elizabeth Loftus, then of the University of Washington, proved how easy it is to implant a false memory, especially one that is plausible. In a famous experiment, she gave volunteers a booklet narrating three true stories of events from their own childhood along with an invented tale that described their getting lost in the mall at age 5. When prompted later to write down all they could remember about the events, 25 percent were sure that all four events had actually happened to them." Kathleen McGowan, Discover Magazine, July/August 2009, p.34

That's it. No drugs. No hypnosis. No long therapy sessions. Nada. The article goes on to explain exactly HOW this occurs and why. But the theories are pretty solidly supported at this point with a fair degree of research. For those who want to know more and don't trust discover, look up the work of Alain Brunet and Karim Nader. We're talking Neuroscientists here not pseudo thinkers.

All that being said, I highly concur with oceanwinds that anyone thinking this is a problem needs real professional help. But be very very cautious of what you're hearing and educate yourself first. As we begin to understand EXACTLY how the brain works, we are finding that things are not as they seem. If you believe that somewhere in a bunch of neurons you have encoded some memory that you can later recall, you're wrong. It just doesn't work that way. Memories are actually "reconstituted" every time you recollect them and they can be edited each time quite readily. After reading this article and then doing some back research, I'd be pretty skeptical of any memory recovery technique that couldn't clearly explain to me how this effect was being avoided. In fact, the newer theories throw the whole concept of "memory" into a pretty vague "maybe" sort of area whether or not they were "lost" and later "recovered". In a sense, all memory is that way.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 2:54:40 PM

DavanKael

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It's very important, when dealing with the potential of recovered memory, for a practitioner not to interject or offer leading questions. People also tend to want to please the person doing the querying and cue on subtleties that they interpret as positive affirmations or negative reactions and could adjust their answers accordingly without overtly meaning to lie.
A very public example of repressed and recoveried memories that has since been discounted (Because of the subject being 'led', etc.) is Sybil.
I'm not saying that all repressed or recoveried memories are not valid but I am saying that one must exercise extreme care.
Davan

< Message edited by DavanKael -- 6/12/2009 2:57:10 PM >

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 3:01:11 PM

sirsholly

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it is repressed for a reason. Be careful and prepared for memories that are not easy to deal with.

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 4:06:19 PM

pahunkboy

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I have maybe 150 micro cassettes of my life in the 80s. The turbulance. I am torn. On the one hand- I would like to preserve them... but on the other hand- a good amount of my past IS best to be forgotten.

As I got older- I will only discuss the ugly past- on my terms. Not simply for the entertainment value. Reliving some memories is not good for the persons well being.

So these tapes just sit. It is a package deal- for all the good stuff it would trigger - there are bad stuff too. so- at the current stage of my life- I am not willing to go thru this.

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 5:25:58 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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I have to say, I'm very suspicious of any so-called "recovered memories."

I had a girlfriend once, a very sweet, loving, woman, who was severly bipolar. Bless her heart, she did her best to keep it from interfering with the kind of life she wanted to live, and for the most part she did a remarkable job. She was one of the bravest people I've ever met.

But a couple of years into our relationship, her father died. Whatever stability she'd managed to weave into the fabric of her life just came apart, and over the next few months the wheels pretty much completely came off for her. Poor thing. Nothing any of us did helped her at all. Nothing worked. But at some point in the process, during or immediately after one of her countless hospitalizations, she somehow got ahold of this repressed memory business. Long story short, it was just incredible the totally ludicrous things she "remembered." At one point, she "remembered" that I was a former Navy SEAL who had killed three men in a bar fight, and then somehow that all changed and I had murdered them in a drug deal or something of that nature. She further remembered that I had tried to kill her too, and the only thing that got her off of that one was when she remembered that her father had confessed to the entire family that he'd killed JFK. Yes, I'm serious.

So I'm somewhat skeptical about repressed memories or recovered memories. I'm sure there are many people who are absolutely sincere in believing that their recovered memories are accurate and authentic, and that being in trouch with those memories is genuinely helpful to them, but my experience is that they simply cannot be trusted.

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 6:04:32 PM

LookieNoNookie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I have to say, I'm very suspicious of any so-called "recovered memories."

I had a girlfriend once, a very sweet, loving, woman, who was severly bipolar. Bless her heart, she did her best to keep it from interfering with the kind of life she wanted to live, and for the most part she did a remarkable job. She was one of the bravest people I've ever met.

But a couple of years into our relationship, her father died. Whatever stability she'd managed to weave into the fabric of her life just came apart, and over the next few months the wheels pretty much completely came off for her. Poor thing. Nothing any of us did helped her at all. Nothing worked. But at some point in the process, during or immediately after one of her countless hospitalizations, she somehow got ahold of this repressed memory business. Long story short, it was just incredible the totally ludicrous things she "remembered." At one point, she "remembered" that I was a former Navy SEAL who had killed three men in a bar fight, and then somehow that all changed and I had murdered them in a drug deal or something of that nature. She further remembered that I had tried to kill her too, and the only thing that got her off of that one was when she remembered that her father had confessed to the entire family that he'd killed JFK. Yes, I'm serious.

So I'm somewhat skeptical about repressed memories or recovered memories. I'm sure there are many people who are absolutely sincere in believing that their recovered memories are accurate and authentic, and that being in trouch with those memories is genuinely helpful to them, but my experience is that they simply cannot be trusted.

I used to think that my perception of the world was a highly rational one...and that....mine had some preponderance on the whole as to reality.

At 50 I've finally gone through enough heartache and bullshit that I'm now fairly clear that just because I did or did not experience something....doesn't preclude someone else from experiencing something entirely outside my ability to grasp it.

As to the question....I haven't a clue.

(I've finally discovered I don't know shit).

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 6/12/2009 6:06:24 PM >

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 6:18:02 PM

Kalista07

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i'm going to attempt to explain this as best i can.....{Okay, well the best i can with my current massive migraine}. For those of You who do not believe in recovered memories there is a lovely foundation that would support and equally love Your support...Its called the repressed memory society (or something like that).
My experiences are the my 'recovered memories' were in fact very realistic. i had educated myself long enough to know i had some classic 'issues' that were symptomatic of someone who had been sexually abused.. (self harm, purging, body dysmorphic issues, depression, lack of trust with men, alcoholism since elementary school, sexual issues, etc) but i also knew enough to know nothing like that could have ever happend in my family...i mean come on...And yeah, just cause i have like very little recognition of important details during my growing up years that doesn't mean anything does it? Until one day i was in a pool....with these guys...that we barely knew...i had only had one drink..they were pretty far gone...i will never forget the way this man smelled as he stood behind me...his arm around my throat... his breath on my neck.... or the way i went home.....literally peeled off my clothes....took a scalding hot shower for about three hours until i had scrubbed each inch of my body until it was bright red... and then i went and saw my therapist....while i paced in her office...trying to convince her that hte memories that had flooded me that day were not true.... Until i broke down sobbing...Feeling compeltley stupid and inadequate because how could i have allowed this to happen to me for so long and just pushed it all away every night? What kind of freak does that?
Anyway, i don't know if any of this will even be of any help or not....Just thought i'd pass my experience along.
i will tell You all that (as a therapist myself) i know my therapist well enough to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that she never planted any memories or fed any wavery memories or anything.
Kali

edited to add: Panda, while i respect Your experience, i do know beyond a shadow of a doubt that recognizing the truth (or even 'my truth') for what it was has allowed me to heal and become the wonderfully awesome person i am today.

< Message edited by Kalista07 -- 6/12/2009 6:19:38 PM >

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 6:34:58 PM

ChasingOblivion

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I speak from personal experience on this. If your mind has repressed it, there's probably a very good reason and you should just let it go and forget about it. Ultimately, whatever it is, it's over now and nothing can be gained by dredging it up.

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 7:26:34 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07
edited to add: Panda, while i respect Your experience, i do know beyond a shadow of a doubt that recognizing the truth (or even 'my truth') for what it was has allowed me to heal and become the wonderfully awesome person i am today.

And awesome you are, of that there can be no doubt!

I just want to say that I, in turn, respect your own experiences, and I'm very glad that whatever process you followed has apparently led you to where you were trying to go. Congratulations on both the outcome, and the hard work you had to have done in order to achieve it. I want to be clear that I'm not doubting in any way the validity of your own memories; I'm just saying that since I know from experience that not all recovered memories are accurate, I can't have any faith in the reliability of the concept. If I'm ever in a position where I have to make any kind of a decision that required trusting the validity of a recovered memory, I won't be able to do it. No offense meant; I hope none was taken.

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 9:09:44 PM

DomKen

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As has been pointed out therapy to recover lost memories is at best a crap shoot and is far more likely to result in recovering memories that feed the preconceptions of the therapist.

Having a flashback, as Kalista described, is a different thing entirely. I have PTSD and certain things will trigger an intense flashback of events I otherwise do not clearly recall. I have personally verified that what I have flashbacks about actually happened to me and as near as i can find out my flashbacks are accurate as to details of the events.

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 9:49:49 PM

Sanity

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It depends on what the repressed memory / flashback is as to whether or not it's too much to handle, how much harm vs. good it may do to relive it. I personally had a lot of problems that I don't think I ever would have got over had I not finally dealt with my issue and learned to forgive and then move on.

The therapist who brought my original issue to the surface was very good and I was still quite young, so it wasn't as bad as if I had the misfortune to have to have waited until I was much older. And no, it wasn't anything sexual but it was very traumatic, and I was able to go back and physically see the evidence, so I had proof, and there is absolutely no doubt that it was real.

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/12/2009 11:21:53 PM

LafayetteLady

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Repressed memories without any evidentiary back up are bound to be suspect. Sometimes we are all looking for a solid reason why we feel or act a certain way and with all the media hype on repressed memories, it is far to easy to start to "remember" something that may not be true. Now I'm not saying that such a thing never happens. I am saying, though, that statistically more often than not, the memories that one suddenly starts to remember in therapy are less than accurate. The average person who enters therapy with "normal" issues suddenly remembering abuse or molestation during their youth is the most suspect. Again, I am not saying that it doesn't happen, I'm only saying that real suppressed memories are not a common everyday occurance.

Also, in the case of Sybil, while there has been discussion about the truth of her situation, nothing has been definitatively proven as to her situation being a complete falsehood. This was a case of a women who was desperately troubled and likely suffered some very horrific events during her childhood. The attempts to prove that case wrong were based on trying to prove that multiple personality disorder didn't exist. The case of Sybil will likely never be 100% proven either way. I'm sure some dramatic license was taken, but I doubt the whole thing was false.

I think what it comes down to is that if a person sought out therapy to deal with something innocuous (i.e. loss of job, loss of loved one, being too shy, etc.) and suddenly starts remembering horrible things from childhood, that person should do some fact checking to see if there is any credibility to what they "think" they are now remembering.

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/13/2009 12:03:16 AM

Kalista07

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Repressed memories without any evidentiary back up are bound to be suspect. Sometimes we are all looking for a solid reason why we feel or act a certain way and with all the media hype on repressed memories, it is far to easy to start to "remember" something that may not be true. Now I'm not saying that such a thing never happens. I am saying, though, that statistically more often than not, the memories that one suddenly starts to remember in therapy are less than accurate. The average person who enters therapy with "normal" issues suddenly remembering abuse or molestation during their youth is the most suspect. Again, I am not saying that it doesn't happen, I'm only saying that real suppressed memories are not a common everyday occurance.

Lafayette Lady,
With all due respect i would be more than curious to know which statistics these are exactly...... i've not come across any solid research where this has been studied and would be very grateful if you would be willing to share with us all where you got this information.....
My concern with the comment that i bolded is who determines what 'normal' issues are? Who draws the line? Where does abnormal issues begin when one is seeking therapy? It would seem to me, that most people experience (on some level) some feeling of abnormality regarding their issue, otherwise why else would they seek therapy?
Kali

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RE: Repressed Memory - 6/13/2009 12:16:33 AM

slaveboyforyou

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Like psychiatry in general, I think it's a pseudoscience. I think a lot of innocent people have had their names dragged through the mud or worse been locked up in jail because of revelations brought forth by overzealous therapists. I am extremely skeptical anytime someone comes forth 30 years later with a repressed memory story.

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