RE: So Much For Reform In Iran

RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (Full Version)

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OrionTheWolf -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/14/2009 4:34:25 PM)
Two different translations of it actually, and both were very close to one another. They were both exact in message. I have also read Nitezsche, Socrates, Locke, and beginning Plato. On th psychological side, it would be Jung and Freud, though I tend to agree with Jung more on many issues. My old Tai Chi teacher once told me "Fire determines right and wrong, if you are too close and it burns you, then you are wrong. If it warms you when you are cold, then you are right. If it blinds you, then you are wrong, if it guides you to contentment, then you are right." quote: ORIGINAL: viewingthesite11 quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Might has always established right. Then when someone else feels it is wrong, they use force to establish their right. He who is strongest will have the most rights. If you are wealthy in a capitalist nation, then you will have more rights than someone who is poor. If it is a communist nation, then the person with the most political clout. Does this make it morally right or wrong? That would depend upon which side of the issue you are on. Did you read the sun tzu Orion? That was by far the smartest political statement I have ever read on this site. There is someone on this planet that understand politics for what it is. [:)]

pahunkboy -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/14/2009 7:01:08 PM)
Yes- this is due to Obama- he being the "messiah" say what your will- but he promised them all a rose garden! rats us in the USA we never mind our own bussiness! Never. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSm0ih6LzDY embassies to dump the dollar.

popeye1250 -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/14/2009 8:59:29 PM)
Gee, another who gives a shit story. I still remember when they took our hostages in 1979! Fuck 'em! Kharma time.

LadyEllen -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/15/2009 12:04:15 AM)
What do we want from Iran? Are we truly so interested in "reform" (which by the way was never on the agenda - Mosavi ran to update the Islamic Revolutionary Republic nothing more)? Or are we more interested in rapprochement that will help towards stabilising the region? All is not lost - in fact this might be the best result for all concerned. Regardless of what Ahmedinejad spouts, it aint him who's in charge but for domestic consumption he's useful where he is when the real leadership make moves towards rapprochement - not because they suddenly think an Islamic Republic is a bad idea but because their economy (20% unemployment I think I read, and raging inflation) could do with it in order to keep the Islamic Republic whole and the people compliant. The leaders and by extension the Islamic Republic would have looked weak had rapprochement occurred under Mosavi, whose day may yet come. E

rulemylife -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/15/2009 5:16:23 AM)
Khamenei orders vote probe TEHRAN, Iran – Iran's supreme leader ordered Monday an investigation into allegations of election fraud, marking a stunning turnaround by the country's most powerful figure and offering hope to opposition forces who have waged street clashes to protest the re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. State television quoted Ayatollah Ali Khamenei directing a high-level clerical panel, the Guardian Council, to look into charges by pro-reform candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi, who has said he is the rightful winner of Friday's presidential election. The decision comes after Mousavi wrote a letter appealing to the Guardian Council and met Sunday with Khamenei, who holds almost limitless power over Iranian affairs. Such an election probe by the 12-member council is uncharted territory and it not immediately clear how it would proceed or how long it would take.

rulemylife -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/15/2009 6:41:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Might has always established right. Then when someone else feels it is wrong, they use force to establish their right. He who is strongest will have the most rights. Unfortunately, it's that very philosophy that has created most of the problems in the world today, from social to economic to political.

TheHeretic -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/15/2009 6:49:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Unfortunately, it's that very philosophy that has created most of the problems in the world today, from social to economic to political. Doesn't it suck when reality messes up the theories of how things ought to be? [8\|]

rulemylife -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/15/2009 6:52:21 AM)
No, what sucks is when people accept things as they are instead of aspiring to something better.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/15/2009 6:57:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife No, what sucks is when people accept things as they are instead of aspiring to something better. Why not both? You can aspire to something better while still accepting the reality of the way things are. In fact, I would argue that you can't realistically aspire to something better unless you're fully aware of the reality.

TheHeretic -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/15/2009 6:58:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife No, what sucks is when people accept things as they are instead of aspiring to something better. Aspiring to something better is all well and good, RML. Pretending we are already there is just dumb.

rulemylife -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/15/2009 7:08:51 AM)
I never said I believed we were there, and I do understand the realities we face. What I was referring to was accepting the idea that force solves all problems.

rulemylife -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/15/2009 7:10:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Why not both? You can aspire to something better while still accepting the reality of the way things are. In fact, I would argue that you can't realistically aspire to something better unless you're fully aware of the reality. I would tend to agree, but that was not the concept put forth that I was disagreeing with.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/15/2009 9:12:25 AM)
No that is very naturalistic. It is philosophy/morals/ethics that man has created to try and not use the more naturalistic laws. The problem is in human behavior, which takes a very long time to change. I doubt it will ever change though, at best we can try and keep it to a minimum. It has been this way throughout the history of man, and will continue to be this way. Actually it does not always create problems, sometimes it corrects them. People think of force, as just physical, but poltical and social force is applied all the time. I often hear people state that psychological force often causes greater harm than physical force. If that is true then social and political force (which is what most non-violent people use) has the ability to cause greater harm as well. It is all in how the force (physical, social, political) is applied, and which side of the issue someone is on, that determines right and wrong. quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Might has always established right. Then when someone else feels it is wrong, they use force to establish their right. He who is strongest will have the most rights. Unfortunately, it's that very philosophy that has created most of the problems in the world today, from social to economic to political.

LadyEllen -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/15/2009 11:24:50 AM)
Interesting news from Iran - a recount, and enormous demos in several major cities today and this evening. The opposition leaders have joined the protests on the streets along with many from the religious establishment. The word "revolution" has just been used on air - ill advisedly no doubt, but still........ E

popeye1250 -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/15/2009 2:06:29 PM)
Hh, heh, the moullahs must have their own chapter of "ACORN" over there.

LadyEllen -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/15/2009 2:51:48 PM)
I dont think so Tom; plenty of assorted nuts, but no Acorn..... E

Sanity -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/15/2009 3:49:10 PM)
quote: Speed of Iran vote count called suspicious CAIRO (AP) — How do you count almost 40 million handwritten paper ballots in a matter of hours and declare a winner? That's a key question in Iran's disputed presidential election. International polling experts and Iran analysts said the speed of the vote count, coupled with a lack of detailed election data normally released by officials, was fueling suspicion around President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's landslide victory. Iran's supreme leader endorsed the hard-line president's re-election the morning after Friday's vote, calling it a "divine assessment" and appearing to close the door on challenges from Iran's reformist camp. But on Monday, after two days of rioting in the streets, he ordered an investigation into the allegations of fraud. (Full article here).

Sanity -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/15/2009 8:59:50 PM)
"We just want to know where our votes went."

popeye1250 -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/15/2009 9:40:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen I dont think so Tom; plenty of assorted nuts, but no Acorn..... E LE, that was a joke.

MarsBonfire -> RE: So Much For Reform In Iran (6/16/2009 5:24:00 AM)
I don't know about you folks, but I find the demonstrations and riots taking place in Iran to be a good sign: The people know they are being fucked over, and they are NOT taking this shit lying down! So far, seven have died in the violence surrounding the "election." The mullahs have attempted to shut down social sites and email throughout the country, in an attepmt to keep the truth of their betrayal of their people a secret. Let's hope, at the very least, they realize that they are no longer the popular, and if they want to remain in control, instead of being ripped apart by an angry mob, they had better start compromising. Otherwise, the revolution may not take place this week... but obviously, they have moved substantially closer to an overturn of their government. Republicans please take note: this could be a premonition of what could happen to you... should you try to steal another election, like you did in 2000, when you "installed" Bush via a republican supreme court judge.

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