Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/15/2009 6:21:44 PM)

I came across this question whilst reading and listening  to the happenings in the near middle east , middle east and environs, this concept that a person is named by their belief before their nationality, they are whatever first, foremost and always before any hint of where they come from, if at all it is mentioned.

What to you comes first, your nationality or your belief, how do you identify yourself if asked by another ?

If belief comes first, why ?



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/15/2009 7:00:19 PM)

My belief. Because that's who I am. My nationality is just where I happen to live.



littlewonder -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/15/2009 7:04:57 PM)

Both play a part in my life.

My nationality is important to me in understanding my family and why they are the way they are and where my past he been and where I can change the future.

My belief is just as important because it's where my morals and values lie. It makes me who I am.



Arpig -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/15/2009 8:49:23 PM)

Nationality I guess, because I don't really have any fixed set of beliefs that can be enurated. Of course I'm not all that attached to Canada either.



popeye1250 -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/15/2009 10:26:48 PM)

My nationality but growing up in Boston in an "Irish" neighborhood it was kind of confusing. Some days you'd swear you were in Dublin with all the accents.
I was brought up Catholic but I've never "identified" with that.
I don't care for "religions" any of them, "opiates for the masses."
If you believe in God that's good enough, you don't need someone picking your pocket every week and chasing after your u/ms.
Some people may think I'm "disrespctful" of religions but it's just that I don't "believe" in them and just don't "care."
I don't think religions" deserve any "respect" if that makes any sense. "My cloud friend is better than your cloud friend" arguments are a waste of time to me. I don't want to learn how to "dance" their way.
It just seems very strange to me that people could "identify" theselves with a "religion", what do they think bout all day, sitting in church or a temple?
"I'm Jewish.""Oh cool, I'm B positive!" "Want to go to dinner?"
I do have dual US/ Irish citizenship so when I tell people that I'm Irish it's true. "I'm from way up in Donegal, we don't have Irish accents up there!"



Vendaval -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/15/2009 11:08:45 PM)

I am more likely to talk about belief and personal values than nationality because those qualities are central to how I see the world.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
What to you comes first, your nationality or your belief, how do you identify yourself if asked by another ?

If belief comes first, why ?





Vladivoj -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/15/2009 11:54:01 PM)

Well, Catholic first , Czech then. Cause for me, Czech identity itself means no backbone, which catholicism add for me.



NihilusZero -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/16/2009 12:54:54 AM)

Neither. Since I don't use "belief" as a descriptor of my philosophies and since geography is (usually) pretty much a combination of accident and convenience.



kittinSol -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/16/2009 7:30:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Neither. Since I don't use "belief" as a descriptor of my philosophies and since geography is (usually) pretty much a combination of accident and convenience.


Ditto.



marie2 -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/16/2009 8:03:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

What to you comes first, your nationality or your belief, how do you identify yourself if asked by another ?

If belief comes first, why ?



My belief is without a doubt the biggest most important factor that makes me who I am, however, if I were to self-identify when asked by another, I would identify first and foremost by my ethnicity. 



lronitulstahp -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/16/2009 8:05:30 AM)

Is being hawt a belief???? Or a combination of accident and convenience???? [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m21.gif[/image] i will need to ponder this before the next census so that i may fill out the appropriate boxes.



popeye1250 -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/16/2009 8:56:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

Is being hawt a belief???? Or a combination of accident and convenience???? [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m21.gif[/image] i will need to ponder this before the next census so that i may fill out the appropriate boxes.



Iron, being HAWT is a good way to "identify" yourself.



LaTigresse -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/16/2009 8:57:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Neither. Since I don't use "belief" as a descriptor of my philosophies and since geography is (usually) pretty much a combination of accident and convenience.


Ditto.


I have to say this is pretty much my feeling on the subject also.

I identify as Me, the sum of all my parts. Some of those parts are pretty awesome, some of those parts other people will not even acknowledge, some are pretty awful. But add them all up and you've got an original. The good, bad and the wacky.



cpK69 -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/16/2009 9:15:41 AM)

~fr~

Seeing that my nationality is 'mutt', I’m going to say belief, though I feel a need to point out, I am of the mind that I am more than my beliefs; otherwise I would be implying 'no room for growth'.

As to why; the place I come from is of mixed beliefs, and or, mixed meanings to the stated belief, therefore making it hard to pick one, and then say that is the one for all. Also, I came by my beliefs, by my own experiences, not by what someone else told me to believe.

I am an incorporated individualist. My motto; Truth and Liberty for All.

Kim



pahunkboy -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/16/2009 9:16:39 AM)

An, perplexing indeed!

I have a few under current running thru me.

1. I am Polish and German.   The German is strict- and rigid- follow the rules- and the Polish is kick up the heels and let your hair down - lets party.

2.  I grew up in Chicago- , and cherish - it was the best of times worst of times....   But now find small town PA to be ideal.  So I go back and forth and frankly it confuses people as to who I am where I came from and what my intentions are.

3.  The gay, but- you mind your bedroom- I will mind my bedroom- I don't seek to live in a "gayborhood" don't put up the rain bow flags and such- but if someone pokes around and sees what they don't like- fkkk em.  

4.  Then there is the is life a success or failure currents--  and the mid age questions.   What if I lived life this way or that.

5.  I enjoy my solitude- so many neighborhoods would not work for me. So  on that- keep the music down and don't take my parking space.

and yet-  demand to know my neighbors. I wont surrender to the crime any sooner then I have to.


6. Mom was from a small town- Dad from a big city- the 2 sides of the family are very different.  
Dads side extremely competitive and  they never take a shit- and if they did- it would be gold coated- and worthy of display at Southerbies auction house.
.... Where- as moms side is modest.   We ALL can have the best looking Christmas tree.    The nice what have you.   But - moms side doesnt party that much... where as dads side there is always a shing ding- and I missed one hell of a graduation party- where there were moments I wish I had on cam!@!!!     

Funny how life evolves.


I try to get along with everyone.  But take my parking space, and endless loud noise- and I am the creature from god know where.


I confuse the heck out of folks.   Then in person my face never matches the sceen- because I am a few thoughts ahead- so THAT really messes up- the where did he come from thing.

:-)

Btw as long as I am posting.....   the dude slumlord next door better get it right this time.  If not- he wont have a rental permit.   I dont care if he talks to the mayor and thinks he is a big shot.  1000, 10001. 10002, 1003,  1004


smiles





kdsub -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/16/2009 11:23:04 AM)

If you were all of a sudden to find yourself in America and became a citizen would you be any different? Would the YOU...your basic self.... your basic beliefs in life change along with your nationality?

I think not... so if you can change you nationality but not your beliefs than I would say you are belief first and nationality second.

If I were to move to Canada because of my health and after a few years became a citizen like P... I would not change... just shoot myself.[:D]

Butch



KenDckey592 -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/16/2009 11:23:46 AM)

I don't think you can make this assumption without considering personal responsibility.   As a child, yes you are what you came from.   However convaluted that is.   If as an adult, you continue with that value system, then you have assumed the responsibility of your actions..  If however, you are molded by the sum of all your experiences, then your value sysem should change as you grow.  I have been all over the US, europe, to Afica, the Mid East, and some little dinky dot in the middle of the pacific ocean.   If you look at what is going on in the courts, you will see that people are purely a product of thier environment, and not therefore responsible for their actions.   I personally am a believer in personal responsibility.  You do the crime you pay the time theory.  



Libertaire -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/16/2009 2:28:56 PM)

I'll have to be difficult and go for 'neither'.

Religious beliefs and nation states are mere abstractions whereas 'I' exist in a very physical sense. The most rational way that I could relate to myself is by proclaiming myself as 'I' and defining myself as an individual. 



subfever -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/16/2009 9:51:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Neither. Since I don't use "belief" as a descriptor of my philosophies and since geography is (usually) pretty much a combination of accident and convenience.


Ditto.


I have to say this is pretty much my feeling on the subject also.

I identify as Me, the sum of all my parts. Some of those parts are pretty awesome, some of those parts other people will not even acknowledge, some are pretty awful. But add them all up and you've got an original. The good, bad and the wacky.



In their camp.



Asherdelampyr -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/16/2009 10:08:44 PM)

If I was a product of the beliefs I was raised on I would be a much bigger asshole
and having grew up in such a transient place as Las Vegas it is hard to really Identify with it, whatever that would mean
One day I may find a place that I love so much that I do all I can to incorporate into it that may change, but for now I consider myself to just be me



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