Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era

Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (Full Version)

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rulemylife -> Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/18/2009 10:12:15 AM)
GOP turmoil It isn't getting any easier to be a Republican. Only 22 percent of the voters identify with the GOP, according to the Pew Research Center, compared with 39 percent who see themselves as independents and 33 percent who consider themselves Democrats. The party has no consistent message. And in an era when Barack Obama so clearly represents the Democrats, the Republicans are ill defined, with a multiplicity of voices inside and outside Congress, none of them very popular and most little known outside Washington or their home states. It gets worse. One third of Republicans have an unfavorable view of their own party (compared with only 4 percent of Democrats who think unfavorably of their party), according to a new USA Today/Gallup Poll. Fifty-two percent of Americans can't specify the "main person" who speaks for the Republicans. Thirteen percent say it's radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, followed by former Vice President Dick Cheney at 12 percent, Arizona Sen. John McCain (the party's presidential nominee last year) at 5 percent, and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich at 4. Former President George W. Bush came in fifth, with only 3 percent. All these potential spokesmen are middle-aged or elderly white men, at a time when more and more voters are women, Hispanics, and young.

philosophy -> RE: Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/18/2009 2:27:36 PM)
...this isn't a good thing. Politics works best as a dialogue, not a monologue.

Sanity -> RE: Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/18/2009 2:43:20 PM)
Oh, I think it's becoming fairly obvious that it's Obama and Liberals in general who are the one who are struggling: quote: “Conservatives” Are Single-Largest Ideological Group PRINCETON, NJ -- Thus far in 2009, 40% of Americans interviewed in national Gallup Poll surveys describe their political views as conservative, 35% as moderate, and 21% as liberal. This represents a slight increase for conservatism in the U.S. since 2008, returning it to a level last seen in 2004. The 21% calling themselves liberal is in line with findings throughout this decade, but is up from the 1990s. http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/Conservatives-Single-Largest-Ideological-Group.aspx Senate questions Obama's financial oversight plan Polls find rising concern with Obama on key issues White House: Firing AmeriCorps IG an act of "political courage" And so on...

philosophy -> RE: Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/18/2009 2:48:24 PM)
.....i'm not that surprised but Sanity, you and i both know that basic political positions like conservative, moderate or liberal don't equate to two political parties. All you're really suggesting is that there is a rich vein for a Republican party to tap....thing is, they aint doing it. And that's actualy a problem for anyone who believes in a democratic political process, regardless of ideology.

Sanity -> RE: Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/18/2009 2:59:11 PM)
I think its fair to say that Barack Obama is helping the Republican party to find its voice, which is potentially a huge problem for the Dems. No more wandering in the wilderness for the Republicans, or entertaining ideas of becoming more like the Left... quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy .....i'm not that surprised but Sanity, you and i both know that basic political positions like conservative, moderate or liberal don't equate to two political parties. All you're really suggesting is that there is a rich vein for a Republican party to tap....thing is, they aint doing it. And that's actualy a problem for anyone who believes in a democratic political process, regardless of ideology.

philosophy -> RE: Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/18/2009 3:06:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity I think its fair to say that Barack Obama is helping the Republican party to find its voice, which is potentially a huge problem for the Dems. ...entirely possible. After the Conservative party in the UK fell apart post Thatcher, it took a succesful Labour government to spur them on to reorganise. quote: No more wandering in the wilderness for the Republicans, or entertaining ideas of becoming more like the Left... ....but this was the mistake that same UK conservative party made last election....at least in some ways. If you define yourself solely in opposition to a sitting government you end up alienating those who put them there. In the US people voted against the GOP in favour of the Dems because at least some of the ideas they espoused resonated with them. Now, you may (potentially correctly) suggest that the Dems are not making those ideas come to life......but if all the GOP can do is come up with opposite ideas then they will continue to fail.

Sanity -> RE: Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/18/2009 4:50:08 PM)
The fault I find in that argument is that I believe that the Conservatives and true Moderates either stayed home or registered a protest vote, thus allowing a one-term-wonder such as Jimmy Carter was to take hold of the reigns. George Bush, like it or not, was in many ways very Liberal... and so where were the Conservatives in 2008? Tired, pissed off, and distracted, they lacked any kind of fire. Especially with McCain, another Liberal, as the Republican nominee. Obama is so far left, so corrupt and so inept that he is well on his way towards alienating many of those who voted for him, though many may be at present hesitant to admit it. It seems there's another straw every day though, and for instance this Inspector General scandal may have some legs. And therefore the true Conservatives are catching fire... while the Moderates grow disenchanted with the left. It's getting interesting. I'm only hoping that some real Conservatives finally get in the ring.

Cagey18 -> RE: Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/18/2009 6:49:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity And therefore the true Conservatives are catching fire... while the Moderates grow disenchanted with the left. Unfortunately for your "argument" Sanity, this from the OP: quote: Only 22 percent of the voters identify with the GOP, according to the Pew Research Center, compared with 39 percent who see themselves as independents and 33 percent who consider themselves Democrats. And the GOP is doing nothing to attract the independents they so desperately need. Instead, they move further to the right. So crow about the conservative "fire" all you want, but the bottom line is that the "conservative" party is floundering right now. And they're not doing a damn thing to turn that around.

TheHeretic -> RE: Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/18/2009 10:27:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy ...this isn't a good thing. Politics works best as a dialogue, not a monologue. No worries. We go through these swings. Were you paying attention to US politics a few cycles back when the Democrats were sputtering and impotent? The Republicans blew it soon enough, squandering their political capital, and now the tables have turned. The Dems will fuck up the play, and turn it back over. I don't worry about whether conservatives have a "voice" at the moment. Hell, when you look at how Sarah Palin gets treated, who would want the job? (shame on you, David Letterman!) I also don't know that this is the time for the Repubs to be trying to tap anything (including staffer's wives). We are well out from the Congressional primaries. Hang back, see what grows among the grass roots. See where President Obama loses the middle, and shows up weak.

Asherdelampyr -> RE: Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/18/2009 10:37:49 PM)
So, I wonder what would happen if one of the so called independant parties got enough support at this time to be a real threat to the reps and dems?

TheHeretic -> RE: Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/18/2009 10:44:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr So, I wonder what would happen if one of the so called independant parties got enough support at this time to be a real threat to the reps and dems? Most likely, the same thing that happened in '92. A majority of the country will express a preference towards one governing philosophy, but split their vote, allowing the minority philosophy to win with a plurality.

philosophy -> RE: Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/18/2009 11:06:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic See where President Obama loses the middle, and shows up weak. ...thing is, TH, this sort of thinking seems to me to be the error. It looks to me like standing against something rather than standing for something. Obama ran a clever campaign by not particulary going for the Republican throat, instead setting out a vision of what he said he stood for. i'd love to see a serious Republican movement away from mere criticism of the Dems and towards setting out an agenda based on a coherant philosophy, without reference to the Dems. Some of it may agree with the Dems, some wont......but while there exists a feeling that Republicans have to always be different from the Dems (and, to be fair, vice versa) then it's merely politics of opposition.

Asherdelampyr -> RE: Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/18/2009 11:11:57 PM)
That is why I want to see this turn into a 3 party system, a dream I realize is extremely unlikely but I can hope

philosophy -> RE: Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/18/2009 11:15:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr That is why I want to see this turn into a 3 party system, a dream I realize is extremely unlikely but I can hope ...true, it is an apparently inevitable artefact of two party politics. It's one reason i have always favoured a full proportional representation system. It may be unwieldy, it may be a bit complex......but at least it allows more than two voices to be heard at the governmental level.

Asherdelampyr -> RE: Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/18/2009 11:21:32 PM)
Exactly I feel, and hope that with more than just 2 major players the game would actually progress forward.

Sanity -> RE: Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/19/2009 6:37:28 AM)
That's not true. Obama did criticize Republicans, and his Democratic supporters were heavily critical of Sarah Palin, John McCain and especially George Bush. Literally, the opposite of what you wrote is true - Barack Obama rode into office on the back of an eight year campaign of over-the-top hate. His vision of what he stood for... [8\|] When he wasn't criticizing Republicans, many of the words Obama read off of his teleprompter were lofty platitudes and promises which were never meant to be kept. The speeches he read were tailored to fit whichever audience he was reading to - he told Hollywood that Midwesterners were bitter folk who clung to guns and religion, and he told Midwesterners that he was on their side, and that he was in favor of keeping the coal industry alive... that he would never cost them their affordable power or their jobs. Truth was entirely malleable, and its final shape only depended on who his audience was. quote: Obama ran a clever campaign by not particulary going for the Republican throat, instead setting out a vision of what he said he stood for.

Cagey18 -> RE: Republicans Struggle to Unite in the Obama Era (6/19/2009 7:37:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic No worries. We go through these swings. Were you paying attention to US politics a few cycles back when the Democrats were sputtering and impotent? The Republicans blew it soon enough, squandering their political capital, and now the tables have turned. The Dems will fuck up the play, and turn it back over. The last such "swing" (before the Republicans') lasted 40 years. So you might be waiting a while for that pendulum.

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