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What should a new car cost? - 6/20/2009 11:07:24 PM

FangsNfeet

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With my US tax dollars at hard work bailing out Chrysler and GM, shouldn't a new car made by them cost a little less?

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/20/2009 11:20:42 PM

DomKen

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I don't see that logic. I own stock in Ford but I don't expect a discount because of it.

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/21/2009 3:05:34 AM

KenDckey592

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Hell I am old, so I should get a senior discount, I spent my youth in the Military so I should get a military discount. I belong to AARP so I should get a discount. I belong to AAA so I should get a discount. I am a taxpayer so I should get a discount. Hmmmm when you all up all my discounts I should get it for free.

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/21/2009 4:30:06 AM

pahunkboy

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I wrote to congress during the first bail out. I told them that the economy would improve if the govt bought everybody a new car. It also would be cheaper or comparable cost to simply buy everyone a car.

I dont think they replied to that particular bail out inquiery.

Anyhow- just drop in. You are the owner- YOU own a car maker.   Check out your car... you need a car.... to

get to the bank.. that you (also) own.

God I love America!       (gags)

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/21/2009 6:19:55 AM

DarkSteven

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Why?

In the old world, a company needed to provide a good product at a competitive price.

In the new world, a company can get funding from the government if it cannot compete.

GM had already lost that competitive mindset and that is one of many reasons why they as a company failed. A massive infusion of money that they did not earn in the marketplace, will not make them decide to compete.

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/21/2009 10:29:46 AM

maletpeslave

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2 of the "Big" 3 were bailed out/saved/what have you not because of you, the taxpayer, but because of the UAW. When a strong voting block votes solidly for the party in charge, and they needed help, they got it. Sure, many of them will be sacrified, but a lot less were trimmed off than if capitalism would have been allowed to work rather than the current nationalizing strategy. Sure they got rid of retiree dental and vision, and shitcanned Jobs Bank, but I have a hard time shedding a tear when the wages stayed at 28 dollars an hour for unskilled work.

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/21/2009 10:49:25 AM

Lorr47

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

With my US tax dollars at hard work bailing out Chrysler and GM, shouldn't a new car made by them cost a little less?

I think the proposed Chinese full size truck and full size SUV were in the $10,000 to $13,000 range. Will that define price goals for both US and Japanese manufacturers? Or, was GM bailed out just in time to find out that it is still not competitive?

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 6/21/2009 10:50:43 AM >

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/21/2009 11:49:19 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: maletpeslave

2 of the "Big" 3 were bailed out/saved/what have you not because of you, the taxpayer, but because of the UAW. When a strong voting block votes solidly for the party in charge, and they needed help, they got it. Sure, many of them will be sacrified, but a lot less were trimmed off than if capitalism would have been allowed to work rather than the current nationalizing strategy. Sure they got rid of retiree dental and vision, and shitcanned Jobs Bank, but I have a hard time shedding a tear when the wages stayed at 28 dollars an hour for unskilled work.

The UAW had nothing whatever to do with GM's failure. GM had for at least 20 years not made payments, as contractually required, into their pension and medical funds in order to increase profits and prop up the stock price. Eventually that came back to bite them. If GM had actually obeyed its negotiated commitments GM would not find it self in this position now. It is entirely the fault of GM's top executives.

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/21/2009 12:22:40 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
It is entirely the fault of GM's top executives.

Yep. They should have fired every employee who let a piece of crap roll past them on the line, the very first time it happened, and they should have told the unions to go to hell decades ago. Entirely the fault of management.

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/21/2009 4:58:02 PM

maletpeslave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The UAW had nothing whatever to do with GM's failure.

I'm sorry, but that comes across as an absolutely insane comment. Of course management made mistakes. However, the UAW decided a long time ago that gold or silver level health care was not good enough for them...they wanted platinum level health care. As a result, they killed essentially the largest manufacturing company arguably the world has ever seen. It was quite impressive actually.

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/21/2009 4:59:44 PM

slutslave4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I don't see that logic. I own stock in Ford but I don't expect a discount because of it.

I'm sorry

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/21/2009 5:18:57 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: maletpeslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The UAW had nothing whatever to do with GM's failure.

I'm sorry, but that comes across as an absolutely insane comment. Of course management made mistakes. However, the UAW decided a long time ago that gold or silver level health care was not good enough for them...they wanted platinum level health care. As a result, they killed essentially the largest manufacturing company arguably the world has ever seen. It was quite impressive actually.

UAW negotiated contracts with GM. GM was able to decline to sign contracts that would make them unprofitable. As a matter fact during the vast majority of the time those contracts were in force GM actually showed a profit, some of which should have been saved for later medical obligations they knew they had.

What's insane is blaming a union for accounting tricks employed by a company to prop up its stock price.

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/21/2009 5:32:19 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: maletpeslave

I'm sorry, but that comes across as an absolutely insane comment. Of course management made mistakes. However, the UAW decided a long time ago that gold or silver level health care was not good enough for them...they wanted platinum level health care. As a result, they killed essentially the largest manufacturing company arguably the world has ever seen. It was quite impressive actually.

No, actually it's not arguable, it's just completely wrong:

Search and view the entire fourteenth annual IW 1000 list of the world's largest publicly held manufacturing firms.

As is your statement about "platinum level health care".

GM and other domestic manufacturers have the disadvantage of competing against foreign companies where health care is subsidized by the government.

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/21/2009 5:34:54 PM

maletpeslave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: maletpeslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The UAW had nothing whatever to do with GM's failure.

I'm sorry, but that comes across as an absolutely insane comment. Of course management made mistakes. However, the UAW decided a long time ago that gold or silver level health care was not good enough for them...they wanted platinum level health care. As a result, they killed essentially the largest manufacturing company arguably the world has ever seen. It was quite impressive actually.

UAW negotiated contracts with GM. GM was able to decline to sign contracts that would make them unprofitable. As a matter fact during the vast majority of the time those contracts were in force GM actually showed a profit, some of which should have been saved for later medical obligations they knew they had.

What's insane is blaming a union for accounting tricks employed by a company to prop up its stock price.

How exactly was GM supposed to get out of contracts, or really bargain hard with the UAW? It has already been shown in the history of Detroit that the UAW will kill a car company rather than work with them (do you remember Studebaker/Packard?). It is hard to bargain in good faith when there is a federal judge right behind you ready to side with labor. The UAW seems to forget there are plenty of states down South that are more than willing have companies come in and keep the unions out, thankfully.

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/21/2009 5:37:31 PM

maletpeslave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: maletpeslave

I'm sorry, but that comes across as an absolutely insane comment. Of course management made mistakes. However, the UAW decided a long time ago that gold or silver level health care was not good enough for them...they wanted platinum level health care. As a result, they killed essentially the largest manufacturing company arguably the world has ever seen. It was quite impressive actually.

No, actually it's not arguable, it's just completely wrong:

Search and view the entire fourteenth annual IW 1000 list of the world's largest publicly held manufacturing firms.

As is your statement about "platinum level health care".

GM and other domestic manufacturers have the disadvantage of competing against foreign companies where health care is subsidized by the government.

So, Ohio subsidizes the health care for Honda? Kentucky for Toyota? Hyundai, Mercedes, BMW, Mitsubishi, etc.? And don't give me the BS on tax incentives, since they give GM, Ford, and Fiat whatever they want up North here.

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/23/2009 10:51:24 AM

Termyn8or

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"The UAW had nothing whatever to do with GM's failure. GM had for at least 20 years not made payments, as contractually required, into their pension and medical funds in order to increase profits and ..."

Is that for real ? Because I was led to believe that is actually a jailable offense.

Of course if so, it wouldn't be the first time a big suit belongs in jail and does not find his way there. But like I said IIRC it is actually a statute. Of course we see selective enforcement all the time.

T

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/23/2009 11:01:17 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

With my US tax dollars at hard work bailing out Chrysler and GM, shouldn't a new car made by them cost a little less?

Five bucks, and I'll take it off their hands.

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/23/2009 11:53:11 AM

Termyn8or

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I bid $14. Sorry kit but I got a guy who will give me nine bucks for the CD player.

T

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/23/2009 12:46:48 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"The UAW had nothing whatever to do with GM's failure. GM had for at least 20 years not made payments, as contractually required, into their pension and medical funds in order to increase profits and ..."

Is that for real ? Because I was led to believe that is actually a jailable offense.

Of course if so, it wouldn't be the first time a big suit belongs in jail and does not find his way there. But like I said IIRC it is actually a statute. Of course we see selective enforcement all the time.

T

The practice was frequently complained about. As I understand it GM did technically make the payments into the medical fund but then loaned themselves the money, at beneficial rates, from the fund which they controlled. Of course eventually the fund needed to start paying out benefits and so GM had to start repaying the loans or default on the fund which would have been illegal.

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RE: What should a new car cost? - 6/24/2009 9:01:15 PM

awmslave

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Inexpensive small efficient engine "people's car" would be great business idea considering the current US situation where middle and lower classes are getting poor due to economic policies.

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