RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far

RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (6/21/2009 9:56:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Ken, your characterization of McC taking the campaign ugly is very unfair. I would encourage you to google up the video of him telling a crowd that wanted to hear it go that way, that Obama was a Christian, and a good man. Being a sore winner in '08 is just as offensive as remaining a sore loser from '00 and '04. I am very specific in my use of words. In this case I wrote "he allowed" not he went or he ordered or anything of the like. He let the rallies get uglier and uglier, check out the Pelosi documentary on the campaign for samples, and only after he started getting heat in the mainstream media did he say once to one woman that it was unacceptable. I note that he continued to allow Palin to campaign solo despite her rallies remaining ugly even after he made his statement. Now that could be that his campaign was in complete disarray by that point or he may have been willing to let her fire up the base no matter how ugly it got or he may have no longer been in control of his campaign decision making but in any case he never made her stop nor did he denounce the various proxies who were pushing his campaign deep into the mud.

TheHeretic -> RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (6/22/2009 6:55:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda McCain and his handlers ran one of the sleaziest campaigns since Richard Nixon, and in bragging about being a "pitbull in lipstick" Palin herself tacitly admitted that her primary role on the ticket was to elevate the attacks while using her gender to shield herself from counterattacks. The character assassinations, the thinly veiled racism, the overt racism - the worst I've seen in 40 years, and as the candidate at the head of the ticket, McCain bears full responsibility for that despicable behavior. That one time in Minnesota, where he finally couldn't take any more and did the right thing for the first time in the whole campaign, doesn't come close to cancelling out the hateful tone he allowed to continue in his name for all those months before that. Fuck him. He's doing a somewhat decent thing now by admitting the obvious, but at his age he can't possibly live long enough to live down the kind of campaign he was responsible for last year. Wow. Are you sure you aren't confusing the campaign Hillary ran in the primary?

lronitulstahp -> RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (6/22/2009 7:23:12 AM)
quote: *McCain bears full responsibility for that despicable behavior*. i have to disagree here. There seemed to be a genuine sense of disappointment felt on Senator McCain's behalf whenever his campaign team or even his supporters used subversive, ugly, and divisive measures during his campaign. He even addressed this at his concession speech. Yes, there was a huge machine behind him. But that's across the board. All parties. It's unfair, in my opinion, to single out Sen. McCain for the actions of others. Even if those closely linked to him acted out in unsavory ways, it doesn't necessarily mean he had prior knowledge, sanctioned or participated in these "win by any means" antics. That's purely speculative. And i have to say, doesn't mesh well with the Senator's reputation. i think he was grieved at the lengths to which some people went in his name.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (6/22/2009 7:38:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp quote: *McCain bears full responsibility for that despicable behavior*. i have to disagree here. There seemed to be a genuine sense of disappointment felt on Senator McCain's behalf whenever his campaign team or even his supporters used subversive, ugly, and divisive measures during his campaign. He even addressed this at his concession speech. Yes, there was a huge machine behind him. But that's across the board. All parties. It's unfair, in my opinion, to single out Sen. McCain for the actions of others. Even if those closely linked to him acted out in unsavory ways, it doesn't necessarily mean he had prior knowledge, sanctioned or participated in these "win by any means" antics. That's purely speculative. And i have to say, doesn't mesh well with the Senator's reputation. i think he was grieved at the lengths to which some people went in his name. I fully agree that that's what happened, but McCain was still entirely responsible for it, even if it wasn't his idea. He was the one who was supposedly in charge of his campaign. If he couldn't control his own campaign, all the better that he lost. Who would have been running the country if he'd won, if not him?

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (6/22/2009 7:40:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda McCain and his handlers ran one of the sleaziest campaigns since Richard Nixon, and in bragging about being a "pitbull in lipstick" Palin herself tacitly admitted that her primary role on the ticket was to elevate the attacks while using her gender to shield herself from counterattacks. The character assassinations, the thinly veiled racism, the overt racism - the worst I've seen in 40 years, and as the candidate at the head of the ticket, McCain bears full responsibility for that despicable behavior. That one time in Minnesota, where he finally couldn't take any more and did the right thing for the first time in the whole campaign, doesn't come close to cancelling out the hateful tone he allowed to continue in his name for all those months before that. Fuck him. He's doing a somewhat decent thing now by admitting the obvious, but at his age he can't possibly live long enough to live down the kind of campaign he was responsible for last year. Wow. Are you sure you aren't confusing the campaign Hillary ran in the primary? Look, if you want to completely change the subject, just say so.

rulemylife -> RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (6/22/2009 7:50:57 AM)
What I saw throughout the primaries and through the campaign was a man becoming increasingly desperate knowing that at his age this was his only shot. It was only in the closing weeks when he realized he had little chance that he took steps to quell the overblown rhetoric in Palin's speeches and his own campaign commercials. You know that part at the end when the candidate says "I'm John McCain and I approve this ad"? It holds true for anything done on his behalf.

kdsub -> RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (6/22/2009 9:35:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic So you haven't noticed how many of President Obama's earliest and most passionate supporters, say the anti-war bundle for a quick example, have been tossed under the bus since he took office? McCain chose one yardstick to measure by. He could have very easily come at it with a different stick and been brutal in his evaluation. As far as I can tell Obama has been remarkably consistent with his election rhetoric. He can’t help what some people wish or thought they heard can he? McCain would change from day to day…he had a tenancy to speak without thinking it through… then he would spend weeks in damage control. Don’t get me wrong… I like the man… think he is a good American that means well… no doubt of his courage and his desire to serve…but he would make a poor President. Butch

Politesub53 -> RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (6/22/2009 10:06:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic What a classy thing for McCain to do. Agreed, it was an honourable statement to make.

maletpeslave -> RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (6/22/2009 11:11:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: maletpeslave A huge reason Obama won was because a certain constituency voted 99% for the Dems rather than the traditional 90%, with much higher than usual turnout. To begin, if you're going to break this down into racial terms at least have the balls to say what you are talking about and not use cute little euphemisms like "a certain constituency". Second, depending on what source the estimate is 92-96% of blacks voted for Obama. In 2004, roughly 88% voted for Kerry. So it's hard to argue the vote was based on race and not on politics. But let's use your numbers and your argument that Obama won because of increased support from the black community. A 9% increase in votes from a population of 13.4% of the entire country, many of whom were not registered voters or who did not vote, does not account for his winning margin. "As of July 1, 2004, the estimated population of black residents in the United States, including those of more than one race. They made up 13.4 percent of the total U.S. population." <http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/population/005164.html> Balls? You're smart people, you were able to figure it out. Funny how you don't mention turnout, unless you think Kerry had enough street cred to have the same turnout as in 2008.

maletpeslave -> RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (6/22/2009 11:15:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: maletpeslave quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Its unlikely he'd have won even if he had maintained his prior positioning rather than apparently having his hand forced by those controlling his party - the momentum was with Obama on the strength of history - but it is clear he should have done better than that which his campaign as it turned out deserved. E A huge reason Obama won was because a certain constituency voted 99% for the Dems rather than the traditional 90%, with much higher than usual turnout. Well then, McCain must have been an even bigger fuckup than we thought if the only people he could get to vote for him were white people. Or wasn't that the point you were trying to make? "White" people are not a safe voting block for either party. They make up most of the swing voters, and their turnout usually is the deciding factor if there is a lean one way or the other.

TheHeretic -> RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (6/22/2009 7:02:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Look, if you want to completely change the subject, just say so. I'm not changing the subject, Panda, I'm just trying to figure out what the fuck you and Ken are on about. Where was this racism, and how did they slip it past the hordes of Obama worshipping media types just itching to slap that card down? Did Palin somehow invent the role of veep candidate as the attacker in the campaign? Character assassination? You mean like pointing out that the guy we wound up electing had a naked resume, with no executive experience? And if you somehow mean to imply that McCain must be held to account for every nasty remark by everybody with his bumpersticker on the pickup truck, then what are you doing rooting for a guy who must then be held accountable for the comments of the poster now known as Marsbonfire? Yes. Barack Obama faced some pretty vicious campaigning on his way to the office he now holds. The worst of it came from the woman who is currently his Secretary of State.

DomKen -> RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (6/23/2009 12:50:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Yes. Barack Obama faced some pretty vicious campaigning on his way to the office he now holds. The worst of it came from the woman who is currently his Secretary of State. So this is going to be the new made up 'talking point' meme about the 2008 election. Are right wingers going to making this absurd claim like they, and you, make the claim that GWB was somehow the victim of the harshest most indefensible attacks in 2004? Let me let you in on something, it didn't work for then and it isn't going to work now. We have the film of those Palin rallies just like we'll always have the SBVT ads.

pahunkboy -> RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (6/23/2009 1:00:28 PM)
McCain -his age group is in general-, a different era where decorum and civility tack , was ..a generation that strived to be gracious. So- the habit was a nicety. Not an assessment.

MarsBonfire -> RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (6/23/2009 1:29:37 PM)
McCain lost on two very specific moments. One was immediately obvious, (the "I gotta rush back to Washington to save the economy!" BS) and one that really didn't become apparent for a couple of weeks after the RNC... (Being saddled with Carribou Barbie, against his wishes.) That, and he just kept making mistake after mistake after mistake... like stnding in front of a boarded up factory while proclaiming how "The economy is strong." Or standing in front of a nuke plant which is the same type as one that nearly melted down in the 1980's... Stuff like that over and over and over... Until he looked like Tim Conway doing one of his "World's Oldest" characters. In the mean time, Obama ran a near perfect campaign! His fund raising skills on the internet practically gaurnteed that he would never run out of cash. If anything, the fact that Obama didn't win by an utter landslide, speaks volumes about how racist the bulk of America still is to this day! I mean, the election was between the perfect candidate, and a dottering old guy who only promised to be the proxy third term of Bush/Cheany.... and he won only by how much?!

pahunkboy -> RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (6/23/2009 5:18:08 PM)
I already sick of hearing the prez. They all voted for the bail outs... well- all but one. and that one a snotty movies comes out where a reporter faked it to ba a hotel room and mooned him. all a set up and stupid.

lronitulstahp -> RE: McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far (6/23/2009 5:25:29 PM)
quote: dottering old guy If you were to replace that statement with quote: "strutting black dude" you'd see how offesnsive it is, and cry "foul!". Ageism is just another form of bias....i won't even comment on the rest of the suppositions in your post.

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