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RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/27/2009 1:18:56 AM   
Esinn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn



I haven't got the slightest.

Why should you?

Was your post some sort of elitist treatise to get everyone "thinking"?

Righto....hope you got what you wanted out of the whole thing.

I found it rather boring actually.

Not in the remotest possible sense intellectual or new.



Are you honestly insulting me for asking a question about religion in a religious forum?  That is cute.

Was your post some sort of elitist treatise to get everyone "thinking"?

I am not sure what that means?


I haven't got the slightest.
Why should you?

(was in response to my question why should I accept the bible as an authority)

I am really confused.  Do you agree or disagree with my position?  You have waited until page 5 and your only method to make a point is ad hominem.
(This ad hominem attack is another forum of the defensive posture I described earlier.  If you can not make a point insult 'em.  You must have had a bad day - tell daddy about it.)

I found it rather boring actually.

Ok and. . .?

Could you be more descriptive?  I respect your day is busy.  I am not sure anyone respects rude off topic comments.




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RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/27/2009 1:41:57 AM   
JonnieBoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

I am not sure anyone respects rude off topic comments.



Wrong ...... those are some of the cleverest bits of wisdom you can read here

Pirate

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RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/27/2009 1:52:41 AM   
HatesParisHilton


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"(This ad hominem attack is another forum of the defensive posture I described earlier.  If you can not make a point insult 'em. 


This is also an old, CLICHED chestnut, word for word, from millions of boards over the span of over ten years.

What, you go through your Dad's posting history from 1998 and just decide to cut and paste like when you were 10 and walked around in Daddy's shoes staring at yourself in the mirror muttering "I'm a grown-up, I am SO!"

Here, Junior, have some sacrificial wine, a stale cracker (oops, sorry, I meant Eucharist), chomp down on some good' ol' Christ Flesh In the Form of the Crazy Cracker and get me that Nun porn I demanded three pages back.

Or I'll tell your Mum you're embarrassing the hell out of Gen Z and she'll take your Nintedo DS and i-phone away (since SHE paid for them).

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RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/27/2009 3:22:54 AM   
JonnieBoy


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Mommy? Dad? does not have any relevance to me.

Never once walked in anyone elses shoes and always won my own fights.

Mirrors don't draw me, though I get told I'm handsome.

You need  Nun Porn? Only ever met one person who perved over nuns ... in a previous occupation.

I  love chestnuts,roasted and chopped into sage and onion to stuff pig meat with.

Millions of boards over ten years might be considered an overdose.

You must be talking to someone else.
Instant reply button gone wrong for you? ... I stand by my words, even if you're meaning Essin

You think straighter than most, aim well too, missing the target when it is exposed is not clever.(You should get another clean shot off soon)

Pirate



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RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/27/2009 3:27:32 AM   
HatesParisHilton


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Uh, dude, I WAS speaking to someone else, I was speaking to e-sinn for the way he was speaking to YOU and LookieNoNookie.  That's why I quoted the line he used on Lookie.  At the beginning of my post.

The only people Ive been replying to are e-sinn and alpha-whatsit.



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RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/27/2009 3:42:41 AM   
JonnieBoy


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't's understood. I'll move out of the way while you do the necessary 

Pirate

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RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/27/2009 3:46:33 AM   
HatesParisHilton


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no sweat, no prob, like yer style.



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RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/27/2009 11:36:29 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
Kia, is that book quite literally, ALL writings, even Mary's? And is it still available? Just curious because, well, I am curious.
Sacred Texts is a good starting place if you're looking for apocrypha.



Thank you very much!

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/27/2009 11:40:10 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HatesParisHilton

"That might work in your play, but it doesn't play in real life, as something created after a certain image does not always remain reflective of that same image. That would be synonymous with saying all parents are exactly like their children. "

Bullshit.  You sound like the Creative Commons fucktards that use "nothing is new under the sun" to justify any lazy-ass Gen Y turdling the right to "mash up" the copyrighted and trademarked work of people like Fritz Lang and claim that just because the little eccy-fried fucktard used some fast-cutting and ghetto-ass editing filters on his Uncles' Avid Bay it's "new and legally different".

Total fucking bullshit.


If you are replying to me...........english please.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/28/2009 1:04:01 AM   
HatesParisHilton


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"If you are replying to me...........english please. "

no, I was repling to Alpha, and we were arguing over "original" vs. "Fake ass".

which is why alpha hasn't come back with a reply.

Creative Commons is a new form of abuse of intellectual ownership rights, masquerading as an "aid" to a struggling creative or author,

but is really more of an "AIDS" to any creator of original material (including yourself if you draw, paint, photograph, write poetry, etc.). 

It's global.  It hosts conferences and Conventions and functions like other media oriented franchises do.

None of my previous posts had nothing to do with you, LaTigresse, in anything but a "d'accord" manner.  Any "grrrrr" was ony applicable to folks on the other side of your cogent arguments.

I'm actually on your side of this debate.

That's why I quoted alphathingo in my reply.  Yes, I'm bad and unconventional, I quote the old fashioned way, I hate the quote finction and how it looks in a post.

But on a happier note...


OP:  where?

< Message edited by HatesParisHilton -- 6/28/2009 2:02:56 AM >


_____________________________

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RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/28/2009 1:39:02 AM   
pyroaquatic


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Why should anyone accept anything into their existence? Yes the bible does have some excellent anecdotes within the confines of the pages. I will not go into specifics.

I will note what the bible or any religious scripts are simply paths that one may take to get to the same place. There are nay sayers and people who desire to make a fuss but like a bee if you leave them alone they will not sting.

There are those that like myself that have viewed the meanings and messages from the bible from an empirical standpoint. The reasons for my assessment of various holy texts are for spiritual growth....

....so that it may affect the growth of my soul...
....the growth of my mind...
....the growth of my life...
and to enrich the very matter in which I form.

Authority has to be given. It is your choice to who you give the authority to. You may or may not listen to what I have to say. It is not that I do not care.... rather are you open to such possibilities and probabilities?

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RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/28/2009 1:43:15 AM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

Authority has to be given. It is your choice to who you give the authority to.

Which, despite the semi-synonymous implication of the thread title, does not actually translate directly into credibility or veracity as far as reality is concerned.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees


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(in reply to pyroaquatic)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/28/2009 1:50:45 AM   
pyroaquatic


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From: Pyroaquatica
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

Authority has to be given. It is your choice to who you give the authority to.

Which, despite the semi-synonymous implication of the thread title, does not actually translate directly into credibility or veracity as far as reality is concerned.



This bodes true for some school textbooks that I have read.

Perception of reality is rather important. How it is perceived is determined by what you feed your self.

Just like the wine you drink has its flavor and texture altered by what soil it grows in a human's world view is the same.
If you want to see Jesus in the wine you have spilled on the floor then by golly you have seen Jesus... and it is your own personal miracle.

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RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/28/2009 2:01:18 AM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

Authority has to be given. It is your choice to who you give the authority to.

Which, despite the semi-synonymous implication of the thread title, does not actually translate directly into credibility or veracity as far as reality is concerned.



This bodes true for some school textbooks that I have read.

Perception of reality is rather important. How it is perceived is determined by what you feed your self.

Just like the wine you drink has its flavor and texture altered by what soil it grows in a human's world view is the same.
If you want to see Jesus in the wine you have spilled on the floor then by golly you have seen Jesus... and it is your own personal miracle.


Or a visage of Mary on a grilled cheese...

But it's not perception that people get messed up on...it's the interpretations of what they perceive that create all the fantastical notions.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees


NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/28/2009 2:27:48 AM   
HatesParisHilton


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Okay, so alpha and e-sinn both have MMorgslarpswhat'sthenewlfavorofIkillanogre on their profile.

I guess all of us are less important than slaying the next semi-3D-monster and getting that next potion.

This tells us what posting on this thread is really worth.

To the author of the thread.

Who is asking us about "The Bible" but far more interested in getting on that "Griffin" (inaccurate, btw) and getting into his next "Clan".

Yeah.   Okay.

_____________________________

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RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/28/2009 2:32:17 AM   
pyroaquatic


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Then let me give you some of my personal examples.

I am not saying that I have magic powers or God was watching out for me, nor I am saying that these are just coincidences.
---------
Walking, neck exposed in the cold, I find a scarf when I need it.
---------
Jogging, about to rain, I find an umbrella just before it pours.
---------
I have a fascination with taking things apart. My father has a projection television that I know has some wonderfully juicy things on the inside of (they did!). I ask him after it breaks down may I tear it apart and keep the things that are in the inside.

He says, okay but I do not think this will happen any time soon.

Days later it dies.
We go to best buy and my father is at the customer service counter to apply for a credit card. There is a gentleman arguing over the poor quality of service he is receiving.

"Well then! I DO NOT EVEN WANT THE MONEY back! I am just going to give this laptop away!" I am pointed at. I walk out the store, dumbfounded with a brand new laptop. The very thing I am communicating to you with. I am still beside myself.
-----------

How would you like to interpret these events? Is it luck? Is it god? Is it magic?
Should I give these things labels lest these occurrences lose their potency?

I have ceased interpreting anything as 'good' or 'bad'.

I tend to place myself in circumstances no human should be in... both 'good' and 'bad' and they tend to work out for the better. I certainly am happy.

I accept them as they happen. I let go of the illusion of control. The illusion of said authority. You have a choice of what to read, see, or believe.

Interpretation is important as well, but does that not only define Perception?
----------
Good Creatures do you love your lives
and have you ears for sense?
Here's a knife like other knives
that cost me eighteen pence.

I need but stick it in my heart,
and down will come the sky.
And earths foundations will depart
and all you folk will die.
--------
I have kept this poem by AE Housman close to my heart.


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RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/28/2009 3:40:18 AM   
Alphascendant


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    HPH, pardon me for failing to realize that we were in the midst of an argument. I wish your radioplay great success and completely agree with your stand on Creative Commons, which I didn't even know existed until your mention of it.

   What I merely meant to say was that if that thing called "God" created a man in it's image does not neccessarily mean that the entire existence of mankind would mirror that same image. Supposedly, the original scripture were written by men "moved by the Spirit" which doesn't appear to be the same spirit that is making the Bibles available for us today. There are many examples in the bible of "God" not being in agreement with how his little project was advancing, yet, "God" seemed content on letting mankind make it's mistakes, allowing mankind to  learn on it's own without the proper guidance of "Dad," instead of wiping the whole lot of them out and starting over with another clump of dirt and stones.   

   Here is an example of what I think about the authority of the bible, taken from the preface of Young's Literal Translation, Third Edition:
"Preface to the Revised Edition.
   THE following Translation of the New Testament is based upon the belief that every word of the original is "God-breathed," as the Apostle Paul says in his Second Epistle to Timothy, chap. 3.16. That language is, indeed, applicable, in the first place, only to the Writings of the "Old Testament," in which Timothy had been instructed, but as the Apostle Peter, in his Second Epistle, chap. 3.15,16, expressly ranks the "Epistles" of his beloved brother Paul along with "the other Scriptures," as the "Gospels" and the "Acts" of the Apostles were undoubtedly written before the date of Peter's writing, by men to whom the Saviour promised and gave the Holy Spirit, to guide them to all truth, to teach them all things, and to remind them of all things that Christ said and did, there can be no reasonable ground for denying the inspiration of the New Testament by any one who holds that of the Old, or who is willing to take the plain unsophisticated meaning of God's Word regarding either.
This inspiration extends only to the original text, as it came from the pens of the writers, not to any translations ever made by man, however aged, venerable, or good; and only in so far as any of these adhere to the original--neither adding to nor omitting from it one particle--are they of any real value, for, to the extent that they vary from the original, the doctrine of verbal inspiration is lost, so far as that version is concerned.

   If a translation gives a present tense when the original gives a past, or a past when it has a present; a perfect for a future, or a future for a perfect; an a for a the, or a the for an a; an imperative for a subjunctive, or a subjunctive for an imperative; a verb for a noun, or a noun for a verb, it is clear that verbal inspiration is as much overlooked as if it had no existence. THE WORD OF GOD IS MADE VOID BY THE TRADITIONS OF MEN.

   A strictly literal rendering may not be so pleasant to the ear as one where the apparent sense is chiefly aimed at, yet it is not euphony but truth that ought to be sought, and where in such a version as the one commonly in use in this country, there are scarcely two consecutive verses where there is not some departure from the original such as those indicated, and where these variations may be counted by tens of thousands, as admitted on all hands, it is difficult to see how verbal inspiration can be of the least practical use to those who depend upon that version alone." http://www.ccel.org/bible/ylt/ylt.htm 

   I believe that the majority of bibles are intended to keep us in the darkness, such as, "and then there was light" as opposed to "and light is" as is written in Young's Translation.

for those such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ,
and no wonder -- for even the Adversary doth transform himself into a messenger of light;
no great thing, then, if also his ministrants do transform themselves as ministrants of righteousness -- whose end shall be according to their works.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15

   There a saying that when "God" created man, "God" realized it's mistake and then created the woman. 

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RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/28/2009 3:55:41 AM   
HatesParisHilton


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dude, no, you can't just cut and paste things that are vaguely on topic but NOT on topic and on basis of the amount of lines used (internet version of "fillerbustering") pretend that it's a valid counterarguement when you aren't even addressing the issues RAISED to you when you are countering the arguements raised when you (previously) did not acknowledge the arguement raised to you.

Sorry, A, but I was member of a debate team and I WILL hold you to the same RULES of a formal debate team. 

Meaning:

DON'T

USE

DISGUISED ISSUES THAT ARE NOT THE ISSUES RAISED

TO COMBAT THE ISSUES RAISED.

Like dragons and dinosaurs, man.  NOT the same.

But if you want to discuss Vatican and Redneck Fundamentalist approved "Angels", the ones with wings, when real angels had no wings and the heavy ones weren't even HOMINID in form, we can go there if you like.

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/28/2009 5:25:08 AM   
Alphascendant


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   Pardon me if my debating skills are minimal, that was one of my least favorite classes. Wasn't the topic "Authority of the Bible?" Many species of birds are actually classified as dinosaurs, and the definition of a dragon also closely resembles a pterodactyl.  Personally, I believe that the dinosaurs as we generally perceive them were extinct long before the first man that "God" created even existed. Given the evolution of man, it says "God" created man out of the dust, without going into length about the evolutionary process.

  As to those "angels," it is interesting that you bring them up. For most of my life I thought the hay laying in the attic of a barn was the hay "mound." Until for some reason the subject came up and I learned it was a hay "mow." So we then looked it up in a dictionary and found this poem:
"Littered the stalls, and from the mows
Raked down the herd's-grass for the cows;"
which seemed odd to find a poem in a dictionary. So between my last post and this one, I was searching for that poem in my wallet, it had become worn and tattered, written on the back of a business card. So I yahooed what I could make out of it and found John Greenleaf Whittier's poem "Snow Bound." http://www.theotherpages.org/poems/whitt02.html  

Which is where I discovered this excerpt:
"As the Spirit of Darkness be stronger in the dark, so Good Spirits, which be Angels of Light, are augmented not only by the Divine light of the Sun, but also by our common Wood Fire: and as the Celestial Fire drives away dark spirits, so also this our fire of Wood doth the same."
     Cor. Agrippa, Occult Philosophy, Book I, ch. v.

That seemed ironic since posting the comment about angels just minutes earlier. I did not intend to get in a debate as debates are not often won on knowledge alone but moreso with the skill of debating. It seems as if this is forum is not much more than the CM faithful's version of Mailer vs. Hitchens, and where is Antony Flew these days? 

Do they spell "argument" with two e's in Great Britain? I may not have been good at debate class, but placed 7th overall in spelling in the entire State of Maine public school system, while in the 6th grade. That may appear to be a brag, but it's also a fact, the point being that we all choose to perceive knowledge the way we wish, until reality dictates otherwise, and we tend to retain whatever knowledge neccessary to accomodate our own specific goals. My goal is to be happy, and more than anything else on this planet, the bible has given me the hope that I can be, which is why I should be reading it rather than these forums. I believe that the men who wrote the original scriptures were indeed moved by the same spirit, but unfortunately, as I stated in an earlier post, their interpretations have become tools of destruction, twisted to accomplish an evil agenda by the wolves in sheep's clothing.

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RE: Authority of the Bible? - 6/28/2009 5:29:03 AM   
HatesParisHilton


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see, NOW you're showing your true colurs, Alpha.

With a minimum of bait.

Do go on.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 120
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