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RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 2:33:29 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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I just want to know if I am the only one that got all verklempt after reading Merc and beth's two posts?

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 7/1/2009 2:34:15 PM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 61

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 2:33:52 PM

ishyB

Posts: 555
Joined: 9/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

mist

the answer is two fold

one... who wants to own something "inferior"

two... why should i think he would want to own someone inferior

One... why would somebody want to take control of somebody just as capable, somebody equal to them, instead of valuing their input as an equal?

Two... why would somebody would is just as capable would want to follow the lead of somebody equal?

I personally sought somebody superior to me to beg the collar from, because I would NEVER settle in following the command of somebody that is 'only' my equal. If he's equal to me, I can just as well handle my affairs on my own.

< Message edited by ishyB -- 7/1/2009 2:36:26 PM >

_____________________________

I want you to know that it doesn't matter where we take this road
Someone's gotta go
and I want you to know you couldn't have loved me better
But I wanted to move on
So I'm already gone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoJFn_RIdkg

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 62

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 2:38:48 PM

janiebelle

Posts: 332
Joined: 4/29/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB

One... why would somebody want to take control of somebody just as capable, somebody equal to them, instead of valuing their input as an equal?

Two... why would somebody would is just as capable would want to follow the lead of somebody equal?

I personally sought somebody superior to me to beg the collar from, because I would NEVER settle in following the command of somebody that is 'only' my equal. If he's equal to me, I can just as well handle my affairs on my own.

Outstanding, ishy.
I am capable, smart, wise, and strong. And there is no way I could submit to a man who was only my equal in terms of those qualities.
j

(in reply to ishyB)

Post #: 63

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 2:38:57 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

in terms of the status of our relationship, yes, he is superior to me.. i have no qualms about that. i was explaining how he viewed things. and his views i do not argue with. so. if he doesnt wish to me to view myself as inferior, then do i disobey and view myself as inferior anyways?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 64

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 2:43:03 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

mist

the answer is two fold

one... who wants to own something "inferior"

two... why should i think he would want to own someone inferior

One... why would somebody want to take control of somebody just as capable, somebody equal to them, instead of valuing their input as an equal?

Two... why would somebody would is just as capable would want to follow the lead of somebody equal?

I personally sought somebody superior to me to beg the collar from, because I would NEVER settle in following the command of somebody that is 'only' my equal. If he's equal to me, I can just as well handle my affairs on my own.

and i have repeatedly said i am NOT his equal. so i dont understand why this is part of the discussion.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to ishyB)

Post #: 65

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 2:44:55 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I just want to know if I am the only one that got all verklempt after reading Merc and beth's two posts?

quote:

verklempt

not at all, LaTigresse.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 66

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 3:48:22 PM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

in terms of the status of our relationship, yes, he is superior to me.. i have no qualms about that. i was explaining how he viewed things. and his views i do not argue with. so. if he doesnt wish to me to view myself as inferior, then do i disobey and view myself as inferior anyways?

Really?
Hmm, I guess that I understood your words here

quote:

what i said to him was a tease.. a joke of sorts... one he typically finds funny. but, the minute i start to put myself down, in his eyes, its no longer funny. as he puts it.. i am slave... that doesnt make me less.. its makes me different.

viva la diference

to be how YOU would explain things.

OH well.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 67

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 3:50:45 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

yes. oh well. his words. not mine.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 68

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 3:52:55 PM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

yes. oh well. his words. not mine.

Actually, I am unsure who's words they are...I don't even know if you know.

ONe minute you say he get's upset when YOU start to put yourself down using words like inferior and such...and in the next sentence you say that those are HIS thoughts and words...make up your mind please...you are confuzzling those of us who are obvioulsly not on the same wavelength as you.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 69

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 3:58:10 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

as he puts it.. i am slave... that doesnt make me less.. its makes me different.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 70

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 4:06:11 PM

Drakontos

Posts: 167
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

borrowed from another thread, this had me wondering last night. the following is an article found discussing equality both in the real sense of the word, and in the sense of it being used in a D/s, BDSM way.

http://www.domsub.info/equality.shtml

to those who serve, do you feel you are equal to your owner? why or why not?

to those who control? do you feel you are equal to those who serve you? why or why not?

and to both who do not see yourselves as equal to the other person in your relationsip... do you see that inequality as inferior?

The debate of equality is one that means very little to me. I don't seek or strive for equality; personally or professionally. As someone already mentioned, I aim for balace, and a complimentary presence within my home.

_____________________________

Drakontos
zaphira

Live with honor; serve with grace and beauty

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 71

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 4:59:08 PM

Slrn733561

Posts: 8
Joined: 12/5/2006
Status: offline

Of course i'm not equal. i'm just an object owned by my Mistress

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 72

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 5:08:13 PM

ElizabethAnne

Posts: 1751
Status: offline

Hello Folks,

quote:

There is a difference between submitting to the authority of another, and being unequal to them. In a Gorean context, many FW often choose to submit to the authority of their Free Companion, but they are still considered equals.

~sgs

I really dislike the word "equal", I don't view myself as equal to my Free Companion. I have told my FC's slave many times, there is no equality in our home. I think someone mentioned here about a leader is not equal to his followers; in our relationship, my FC is the leader of our home. As a woman who has "chosen" to follow his direction, how could I be equal to him? And simply because I am a Gorean free woman, that does not mean I think ALL men are dominant, or ALL men are preordained to be the leader. It means MY FC has the qualities I looked for in a man, one I could respect, one I could trust, and one I could believe in, one I could follow, one I could submit to.

I don't think in any relationship there can be true equal partners. One will naturally assume the leadership role, not based on gender, but based on ability. Which isn't saying I am not capable of leading, he is better at it. I wouldn't want to live in a world of "sames", I think this is where so many vanilla relationships get in trouble. Each person struggles for control, each person wants to be "equal". I believe relationships would be happier, more adjusted, more in tune with each other if they DID follow their own nature.

To me it really is that simple.
I wish you well,

Elizabeth Anne

(in reply to Drakontos)

Post #: 73

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 5:08:23 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

No, I cannot even see that as an implied statement. I know plenty of people to whom I feel I am not as good as, and a number of people I meet who are content to be/have less, in things, intelligence, skills, ect. And that is fine. As far as I know we were not all put on earth exactly the same, or I might be a white skinned blue eyed blond with size 38C's and what ever else the fates determined was standard.
No one ever said if we are not the same we are not equal.
I state again. I do not judge myself by anothers yardstick. I don't care what people think of me. And beyond the moment, I really do not dwell on anothers talent, skill.. or what they do within the context of their relationship.
I am very confused by how you came to your conclusion that I believe we cannot be different. I gaurantee you I AM different. Unless there are clones running around we all are.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I am equal in that I am the sum of my parts. Add up my life, skills, experience, and taste .. it pretty much adds up to who I am now. I don't judge myself by anothers yardstick. The fact that I can dominate life, or submit to a man does not make me more or less in my eyes.
Kyst

so there is only more, less, or equal, in your eyes. what happened to the idea of just being.. different? must we all be equal, the same?

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 74

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 5:28:22 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

ummm... i am saying we are all different... no one is equal to another. that was the basis for this whole thread.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 75

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 5:31:18 PM

Alanshoreisgod

Posts: 28
Joined: 6/30/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

ummm... i am saying we are all different... no one is equal to another. that was the basis for this whole thread.

If we start with the premise of "nobody is equal" than the question of whether d/s relationships are inherently "unequal" is a useless exercise. In which case, the relevant question becomes "are d/s relationships any MORE unequal than others?"

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 76

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 5:47:55 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

The problem is that people confuse equality and equivalence, that is to say they confuse equal and equitable.

These sorts of discussions have raged on the Gorean forums since their inception.

OK, to oversimplify this... (given the initial circumstance that you are a female (born and raised) and I am a man)

You suck one hundred percent of the cock, I will have my cock sucked one hundred percent of the time.

Does that make it equal?

Fill in the rest.

(BTW you will have one hundred percent of the babies, I will have zero percent, that's sorta a hard limit, and I don't see a way out of that, but you can pencil out alternatives with me if you like, just kinda kick it around and think outside the box).

EQUITY, KIDS; EQUITY!!! (And that ain't even a straightforward thing)

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Alanshoreisgod)

Post #: 77

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 5:53:43 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

Its not that we're equal. Its that we have equal rights.

_____________________________

Download SLAVE LOVER. Explicit BDSM porn, with a plot! A love story, on a FemDom planet! http://www.amazon.com/Slave-Lover-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B0031ERBLI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261973416&sr=1

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 78

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 5:56:07 PM

Alanshoreisgod

Posts: 28
Joined: 6/30/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The problem is that people confuse equality and equivalence, that is to say they confuse equal and equitable.

These sorts of discussions have raged on the Gorean forums since their inception.

OK, to oversimplify this... (given the initial circumstance that you are a female (born and raised) and I am a man)

You suck one hundred percent of the cock, I will have my cock sucked one hundred percent of the time.

Does that make it equal?

Fill in the rest.

(BTW you will have one hundred percent of the babies, I will have zero percent, that's sorta a hard limit, and I don't see a way out of that, but you can pencil out alternatives with me if you like, just kinda kick it around and think outside the box).

EQUITY, KIDS; EQUITY!!! (And that ain't even a straightforward thing)

Ron

even that doesn't really address the question. "Equity" in its most basic, refers to a sense of "fairness". A system that complies with our moral sense of right and wrong. As such I'd sincerely HOPE that all d/s relationships are "equitable", in that they are entered into with fully informed consent, free of coercion or threat. Which, as far as relationships go, is really all that "equitable" means.

I think the question asks something a bit more philosophical. Are we, doms and subs, of equal value, of equal worth, as people, and as partners?

And, frankly, any answer other than "yes, of course" is considerably disturbing.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 79

RE: are we all "equal"? - 7/1/2009 6:03:48 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

LOL then you really have me confused. How does this pertain to ds, nilla, life? We are different. Wouldn't we all know that by definition and at the very least by a visual representation of people? I would be a blue eyed blond if I could choose.
I seriously do not understand your question if you meant to correlate this to bdsm.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

ummm... i am saying we are all different... no one is equal to another. that was the basis for this whole thread.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 80

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