Collarchat.com

Join Our Community
Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

what to do...


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Polyamorous Lifestyles >> what to do... Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
what to do... - 7/4/2009 7:54:53 AM   
Danibelle


Posts: 94
Joined: 11/24/2008
Status: offline
So I've encountered a rather large problem and am looking for some advice.

I've been with my boyfriend for six years, we've been living together for two, and we've been in an open relationship for a little over three years.  I'm quite committed to him and I don't want to end things but unless I can figure out another way I may have to.

Here's the situation:

We WERE in an open relationship where the outside contact was really just for casual play partners.  That was our original intention.  That's not how if looks now, but that's not the problem.  Right now we are much closer to a three, moving toward a four, person poly relationship.  He has me.  We are not D/s though incorporate BDSM into our bedroom play.  We've discussed more of a D/s dynamic, but haven't committed to anything right now.  He has a play partner he's been seeing for a few years.  We'll call her B.  The two of them have a mostly set D/s relationship and she considers him to be her primary D-type and, sometimes, her primary relationship.  There were times when he saw her behind my back but it started out in the open and it's out in the open now.

We also have another friend, N.  The boyfriend and N also started out as casual play partners.  I don't see them as that much more than that, but she's becoming a big part of all our lives.  The boyfriend and I play with N together and we have been for months.  On rare occasions, I've played with N without him.  He's also been with her without me.  We may like to share, but not ALL the time.  To complicate things a bit, N and B also play together.  So even if N isn't with ALL of us, a week never goes by that she isn't with ONE of us.  This has caused her to have a bigger impact in everyone's lives than I think the boyfriend and B intended.

I don't like B.  For various reasons.  We're civil, but we're not friends.  I won't go to an event if she is there and she won't go if I'm there.  We find it best to avoid each other.  Since we're both on pretty good terms with N, N is often invited along with one couple or another.

I like N.  I really do.  I think she's great.  I think she adds a calmness to our relationship while also exciting it.  She has a new, mostly vanilla boyfriend and he's also really great and open minded.  I really enjoy the time I spend with her and I value the time she spends with the boyfriend.

That being said, B is NOT happy.  B switches and has several partners she plays with at events and clubs.  When she goes out, her night is usually booked.  A couple of months ago, B was planning on going to a party thrown by mutual friends of hers and the boyfriend at a club in our area.  Since the boyfriend originally wasn't sure if he was going to go, she made plans.  She was helping the hostess and host of the party for half the night and then had the rest of her night blocked off to play with a few friends.  N was also planning on going.  She didn't have plans with anyone and asked the boyfriend to go with her.  Eventually, I got my work schedule and found I would be working that night and the next morning so I asked him if he wanted to go out since I didn't think it was fair he would have to stay at home on a Saturday night alone.  So he tells N, yes, he'll go with her.  He also tells B that he will be going but doesn't expect any time as he knew she was busy the whole night.

Well B did not handle it very well.  She informed him that she either wanted him to go and play with NO ONE or he had to make time to play with her.  Well, most of us know how demands like that are received by dominant partners.  He told her no.  She had plans so he made plans.  He also told her never to make a demand like that ESPECIALLY since he would NEVER ask that of her.  They fought almost all day long but he was not budging.  And he didn't really have any reason to.  Their mutual friend, who they both look up to as a mentor, not so politely told them to stop acting like children or they could take their fight elsewhere.  She wanted no big scene at her party.  They made up to the point of civility for the sake of everyone else they had dragged in.  When he arrived at the party, he went right over to her, gave her a kiss hello, and asked her how her night was going.  She proceeded to run into the corner and cry.

The next day found them fighting and everyone pissed off at the two of them.  I told him he would either have to make an effort to patch things up with her or he would have to end things.  Either way I made it clear I wanted no more drama.  When he fights with her, it puts him in a shitty mood.  I don't want to live with someone in a shitty mood all the time.  And they're really hard to have fun with too.  It wasn't an ultimatum.  It was me cautioning him because I love him.  I said the same as any great friend.  "This isn't working.  Fix it, or move on."  I didn't think I was out of line.  He didn't think so.  N was just upset she caused a fight.  Everyone patched things up with each other and all appeared well.

This weekend is TES Fest, a fetish convention in NJ.  N happens to live very close to the hotel so the boyfriend stayed with her at her house.  B roomed with a good friend of hers and had her roomie before they decided to go.  I wanted to go, but really thought spending a weekend around B would drive one or both of us absolutely insane and ruin pretty much all of our playtime.  Besides, I like hanging out in the backyard barbequing for the 4th.

N and I have gotten a lot closer over the past few months.  We compliment each other well and value our time spent together.  We talk, or at least send a quick "have a great day" text everyday.  B is jealous.  She's jealous of my relationship with N.  She's jealous of the boyfriend's relationship with N.  She's jealous of my relationship with the boyfriend.  It used to be she would just piss me off.  Then she pissed him off and now she's pissing N off.

Their first night at TES Fest, B cried because she didn't want the boyfriend to leave and go to N's house even though that had been the plan for a while.  She also canceled most of her plans with other people to spend more time with N and the boyfriend.  N called me yesterday, she's having a horrible time.  I spoke to the boyfriend yesterday, but sometimes he's a stupid boy and can't even see things for what they are.

Something has to change.  That's it.  I cannot go on like this anymore and I shouldn't have to.  So I need a bit of help.  I don't want to come accross like I simply want him all to myself.  I don't want to come accross like I'm isuing an ultimatum because I'm jealous.  I see B as the cause of almost all the drama in our lives and I would happily make this foursome into a threesome.  So I've tried to plan out all my options.

B and I have spoken about our problems in the past, I could go directly to her and explain how I feel to her.  That may make it seem less threatening, but it also may make it worse since we're not close and really just tolerate each other.

I could talk to the boyfriend.  Find out what his perception of the weekend was and tell him mine and voice my concerns.  While this is the least threatening, it may also be the least effective option.

I know N's feelings.  I could ask her to talk to him with me.  It may make it seem like we were ganging up on him.  That's the risk in that, but there are benefits as well.  She calms us both and has the most impartial view on things.

The four of us could get together and talk, but I think B would see that as us ganging up on her and force her into more of a defensive screaming mode.

I know I need to voice my feelings somehow.  And I'm not sure if this CAN be fixed.  What I think would be best is for B and the boyfriend to AT LEAST take a break and if necessary, end things completely.  I see her as a negative influence in all of our lives and I think, in the end, we would all be happier without her.

If things don't go my way, and he refuses to stop seeing her, I will have to leave.  This is just causing me too much drama and heartache and I've had enough.  I don't like seeing the people I care about hurting.  Especially not over someone I don't even like.  For me, that is the last possible option.  It's not something I want to do and it's not something I would look forward to doing.  It also would only solve my own problems, no one else's.

So if those were your options, who would you talk to?  How would you approach things to allow them the best possible results?

Also, happy 4th of July everyone!


_____________________________

"To love another person is to see the face of God."
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: what to do... - 7/4/2009 4:08:31 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
If it happened here, I would sit down with N, the boyfriend and myself and talk through what's happening... stick to non-inflammatory phrasing, and offer both a clear picture of what the core issues are and a few possible solutions, as well as making it clear that the floor is -always- open for alternative options, as long as the core issues are resolved.

1. Have something to write down the core issues on, so that you stay on-topic and don't wander off into potentially inflammatory territory
2. be prepared to spend a good bit of time in sorting. Remember to focus on your family, as a whole, and its health as the core goal, and be open to hearing options.
3. This is solvable. Given enough time and dedication, near anything is -- it's more a matter of what we're -willing- to do than what we're -able- to do.

Dame Calla

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to Danibelle)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: what to do... - 7/4/2009 4:29:05 PM   
LilKittenSub


Posts: 39
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline
Something to keep in mind during the talk, is that this is not motivated only by your dislike of B. Make it very clear that you're concerned for the health and stability of all of the relationships involved. Even if you do not come off as inflamatory, people who know you do not like the person you're talking about can tend to jump to the conclusion that you just want her gone because you don't like her, not because you don't like what she's doing to those around her.

_____________________________

“How delicious to corrupt, to stifle all semblances of virtue and religion in that young heart!”
--Marquis De Sade

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: what to do... - 7/4/2009 8:13:27 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
Imo and ime the dislike factor is going to continue to be and to become more of an issue. 
Davan

< Message edited by DavanKael -- 7/4/2009 8:38:58 PM >


_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to LilKittenSub)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: what to do... - 7/4/2009 9:09:54 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
Whatever poly parameters you all had in the beginning, wasn't there some sort of discussion about partners playing with people that were not liked?  Or was B tolerable at first and then got worse? Davan keenly points out that this sort of silliness normally reaches its peak before it plateaus.

*shakes head*

Alright...here's what I'm seeing: You and the boyfriend are not in a formal D/s dynamic. B and him are (basically?). State to him your requirements for remaining in the relationship. Since they are concerning B, the boyfriend, from there (based on the supposed dynamic), either has his sub behave because he has accepted your terms or he rejects your terms. Or he waffles, in which case you determine a deadline. From there you'd probably also have to have a talk with N to verify what her ontentions are as far as continued interaction with B, as that is the very issue you're trying to distance yourself from. Determine the degree to which that relationship is kept based on her response.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees


NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: what to do... - 7/4/2009 10:19:32 PM   
Danibelle


Posts: 94
Joined: 11/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

If it happened here, I would sit down with N, the boyfriend and myself and talk through what's happening... stick to non-inflammatory phrasing, and offer both a clear picture of what the core issues are and a few possible solutions, as well as making it clear that the floor is -always- open for alternative options, as long as the core issues are resolved.

1. Have something to write down the core issues on, so that you stay on-topic and don't wander off into potentially inflammatory territory
2. be prepared to spend a good bit of time in sorting. Remember to focus on your family, as a whole, and its health as the core goal, and be open to hearing options.
3. This is solvable. Given enough time and dedication, near anything is -- it's more a matter of what we're -willing- to do than what we're -able- to do.

Dame Calla


Dame Calla,

Thanks so much for your response.  I appreciate the advise about writing concerns down so I don't wander off too much and make sure I say what I need to say while allowing for enough planning for it not to come off as too offensive.

Being with my boyfriend for as long as I have has cemented my belief that this is not the end if we don't want it to be.  Six years may not seem like a long time, but I'm only 24 and he's only 26 so it's a big chunk of our lives.  I've said to him before that I love him, want to stay with him, and am willing to work out problems with him if he wants to as well.

What I THINK I'll do (especially after speaking to him briefly tonight) is talk to him when he gets home and see what's on his mind.  I believe that before we include B or N into the conversation, we need to form a decision about who and what we want and who and what we're willing to fight for.  Because B and I don't get along too well, I need him to stand with me in a plan of action or she'll just see it as me attacking her.

If you have any more advice please send it my way.  I'm all ears.  Or eyes in this case.

Dani


_____________________________

"To love another person is to see the face of God."

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: what to do... - 7/4/2009 10:45:29 PM   
Danibelle


Posts: 94
Joined: 11/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Whatever poly parameters you all had in the beginning, wasn't there some sort of discussion about partners playing with people that were not liked?  Or was B tolerable at first and then got worse? Davan keenly points out that this sort of silliness normally reaches its peak before it plateaus.

*shakes head*

Alright...here's what I'm seeing: You and the boyfriend are not in a formal D/s dynamic. B and him are (basically?). State to him your requirements for remaining in the relationship. Since they are concerning B, the boyfriend, from there (based on the supposed dynamic), either has his sub behave because he has accepted your terms or he rejects your terms. Or he waffles, in which case you determine a deadline. From there you'd probably also have to have a talk with N to verify what her ontentions are as far as continued interaction with B, as that is the very issue you're trying to distance yourself from. Determine the degree to which that relationship is kept based on her response.



B was more than simply tolerable at the beginning.  I liked her and considered her a good friend.  Some things happened and we fought and walked away from each other instead of trying to make things work.  Some problems were related to the relationship she has with my boyfriend, most were not.  Since I don't particularly care for her, there are rules in place regarding when, where and how he can see her.  Some of these rules apply to others, some do not.  I understand that when things are going well, she enhances his life so I tolerate her as best I can.  It's not something I'm thrilled about, but I don't have to love everyone he loves.

Correct.  The boyfriend and I incorporate extremely light D/s play into our BDSM bedroom fun.  As far as how the relationship works, it's about 95% vanilla.  We've recently talked about changing that a bit, but since this new problem has risen, that will fall to the back burner for now.

Correct again.  Basically.  If you were to ask him if she were his sub his response would be no.  If you were to ask her if he were her Dom she would say no.  If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's very hard to convince someone it's a moose.  Their relationship works like he is her Dom and she is his sub.  His aversion to titles of commitment is no new thing.  Some people claim living together does not prepare you for marriage.  I disagree.  I strongly believe that were we married, very little would change within our relationship.  He feels he's not ready for marriage and, while it may infuriate me at times, I understand and let it be.  I have a loving partner and, for now, I'm happy with that.  The same could be said for B.  If they were to change their titles and public claim on each other as being in a D/s relationship, not much would change.  You could think of any characteristic of a non-monogamous D/s relationship and I would tell you it exists in their relationship.

That being said, he can't just tell her how to behave and magically make it so.  She HAS been told to cut it out.  She did for a while.  I gave them this weekend.  He gave her this weekend.  But I don't think it's enough for her.  As long as he sees other people it will never be enough for her.  And he has no desire to be monogamous, least of all with her.

I have spoken to N about this.  I told her that if the boyfriend and B were to end things she pretty much had three choices.  She could stop seeing me and the boyfriend.  She could stop seeing B.  She could say "enough of these crazy people" and choose to stop seeing all of us.  I told her I wouldn't fault her for any of these decisions and I really wouldn't.  Right now she's gotten to the point where she's quite done with B's drama and simply tolerates her to keep the group happy.

If the boyfriend and B were to end things it would be difficult for both of them.  They are friends with the same groups of people in the local community.  Also, they work together.  Because they work together, they have many of the same friends in their professional community as well.  It's tricky and difficult.


_____________________________

"To love another person is to see the face of God."

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: what to do... - 7/5/2009 6:27:20 PM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

What I THINK I'll do (especially after speaking to him briefly tonight) is talk to him when he gets home and see what's on his mind. I believe that before we include B or N into the conversation, we need to form a decision about who and what we want and who and what we're willing to fight for. Because B and I don't get along too well, I need him to stand with me in a plan of action or she'll just see it as me attacking her.

If you have any more advice please send it my way. I'm all ears. Or eyes in this case.


Danibelle, I think this is really important. I have always pictured a poly household as a structure. The main couple (or founding couple) would be the foundation and each individual is another component of the structure. All having different purposes but equally important. Any structure without a solid foundation is going to crumble, plain and simple so in keeping your relationship with your boyfriend strong you are also keeping the other relationships strong. And I agree, in this instance you need to show a united front. I sounds like "B" is trying real hard to rule the events and drive wedges between your boyfriend and everyone else involved.

It may be difficult for him to see that and it may be a huge task for you to make it clear to him that you aren't doing it for purely selfish reasons. I would do as Calla suggested, write everything down so you don't get distracted and dragged into a totally different conversation and I'll add to that, talk calmly, do NOT start your sentences off with "You said" or "You did" or anything like that, instead start off with "I believe" or I feel that..." Ok?

Good luck!

Jewel


_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to Danibelle)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: what to do... - 7/5/2009 6:32:51 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel


D...I'll add to that, talk calmly, do NOT start your sentences off with "You said" or "You did" or anything like that, instead start off with "I believe" or I feel that..." Ok?

Good luck!

Jewel



*blows Jewel a kiss*

"I have a concern" is another really -useful- phrase. It brings the conversation back around to working through an issue without laying blame or making accusations.

Dame Calla


< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 7/5/2009 6:33:33 PM >


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: what to do... - 7/5/2009 8:12:06 PM   
Danibelle


Posts: 94
Joined: 11/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel


Danibelle, I think this is really important. I have always pictured a poly household as a structure. The main couple (or founding couple) would be the foundation and each individual is another component of the structure. All having different purposes but equally important. Any structure without a solid foundation is going to crumble, plain and simple so in keeping your relationship with your boyfriend strong you are also keeping the other relationships strong. And I agree, in this instance you need to show a united front. I sounds like "B" is trying real hard to rule the events and drive wedges between your boyfriend and everyone else involved.

It may be difficult for him to see that and it may be a huge task for you to make it clear to him that you aren't doing it for purely selfish reasons. I would do as Calla suggested, write everything down so you don't get distracted and dragged into a totally different conversation and I'll add to that, talk calmly, do NOT start your sentences off with "You said" or "You did" or anything like that, instead start off with "I believe" or I feel that..." Ok?

Good luck!

Jewel



Yes!

Since around last summer I have *tried* to be very careful to talk from myself instead of at him.  Since then I have really tried to focus on saying what I feel and think rather than say what I think he's done.  For example, "how come you never go and do laundry with me?" became "it would be a lot easier and faster if we did laundry together.  Would you like to come with me?"  I'm not always perfect.  It's something I'm working on, but certainly making progress.  It's getting easier.




_____________________________

"To love another person is to see the face of God."

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: what to do... - 7/6/2009 5:26:53 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel


D...I'll add to that, talk calmly, do NOT start your sentences off with "You said" or "You did" or anything like that, instead start off with "I believe" or I feel that..." Ok?

Good luck!

Jewel



*blows Jewel a kiss*

"I have a concern" is another really -useful- phrase. It brings the conversation back around to working through an issue without laying blame or making accusations.

Dame Calla




Calla... Together we are unstoppable!!!


_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: what to do... - 7/7/2009 9:34:12 PM   
Danibelle


Posts: 94
Joined: 11/24/2008
Status: offline
So the boyfriend came home yesterday and we did a bit of talking last night when I got home from work.

We basically came to the conclusion that there were four possible solutions to our problem.

The two extremes are:

He's finished with B.
He continues to allow her to run amok and dictate his life outside of our home.

The two compromises are:
B and the boyfriend take a break and see how things go from there focusing on their friendship and work relationship to be evaluated once again at a predetermined date.
He sets up a more strict set of parameters for his relationship with B and does not allow her to act up.  Should she act up, she will be punished by losing playtime.  When she acts up, she's rewarded with attention.  No more.

I left this up to him to think about for a while.  We had planned to spend July together so it gives us some time to think and decide without a lot of pressure.

Can anyone think of another possible solution?



_____________________________

"To love another person is to see the face of God."

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: what to do... - 7/8/2009 3:51:13 AM   
Sir Daddy


Posts: 53
Joined: 2/7/2009
Status: offline
In your b/f's position, I'd have unloaded B a while ago.  She sounds like a drama queen and a disruptive force in all relationships involved.  I would not tolerate that.

(in reply to Danibelle)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: what to do... - 7/8/2009 10:06:45 AM   
Danibelle


Posts: 94
Joined: 11/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sir Daddy

In your b/f's position, I'd have unloaded B a while ago.  She sounds like a drama queen and a disruptive force in all relationships involved.  I would not tolerate that.


Easier said than done.


_____________________________

"To love another person is to see the face of God."

(in reply to Sir Daddy)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: what to do... - 7/8/2009 1:31:49 PM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Danibelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sir Daddy

In your b/f's position, I'd have unloaded B a while ago.  She sounds like a drama queen and a disruptive force in all relationships involved.  I would not tolerate that.


Easier said than done.




I have to disagree with you there hon... It really is that easy. The difficulty lies in how much you two are willing to put up with after it's all said and done. I would be asking myself "Is the amount of trouble she is currently causing you more, or less then the amount of trouble she is going to cause you when you kick her to the curb?" And keep in mind that no matter what your decision is there is going to be drama involved. At least if you decide to end it completely the drama would eventually have an ending point where now it's just gonna go on and on and on....

Jewel


_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to Danibelle)
Profile   Post #: 15
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Polyamorous Lifestyles >> what to do... Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2023
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

11.938