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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/7/2009 5:39:26 PM   
Lucylastic


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Bloody hell no wonder people are bankrupting themselves over healthcare, that is bloody abysmal.



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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/7/2009 6:12:59 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
A nurse practioner at age 28 cant afford health insurance? A doctor going without coverage? Doesnt pass the smell test.


Not just "a doctor". Congressman Kagen, M.D. of Appleton, Wisconsin.

What makes you think that a nurse practitioner at age 28 CAN afford health insurance? What do you think her premium would be?



If shes healthy, for a low deductible low co pay plan, 100-150 a month in Wisconsin.


And if she's not?


Well then that would depend on her ailments, wouldnt it?

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/7/2009 6:18:07 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
A nurse practioner at age 28 cant afford health insurance? A doctor going without coverage? Doesnt pass the smell test.


Not just "a doctor". Congressman Kagen, M.D. of Appleton, Wisconsin.

What makes you think that a nurse practitioner at age 28 CAN afford health insurance? What do you think her premium would be?



If shes healthy, for a low deductible low co pay plan, 100-150 a month in Wisconsin.

The 25th percentile nurse practioner salary is $72k. The average starting salary is 56k. Youre damn right they can afford it.





The plan I found for $134 was $1000 deductible, $35 copay etc. But the point isnt specific coverages, the speech bemoaned that she could not afford health care, which is bullshit. If she isnt responsible enough to at least protect herself with catastrophic coverage, then shes too stupid to be a Nurse Practitioner and way too stupid to have kids.

If she cant afford coverage, she cant afford to have kids.

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Profile   Post #: 723
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/7/2009 6:35:38 PM   
Lucylastic


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I DIDNT mean to press ok....


< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 8/7/2009 6:38:51 PM >


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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/7/2009 7:11:15 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


If she cant afford coverage, she cant afford to have kids.


....ah, the pungent smell of economic eugenics

........must.....resist.....the....lure...of......Godwins...Law.......

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/7/2009 7:25:39 PM   
tazzygirl


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willbe... how deep was the silver spoon when you were born?

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/7/2009 7:26:23 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

willbe... how deep was the silver spoon when you were born?


...and isn't it usually in the mouth?

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/7/2009 8:06:47 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

Heavy drinkers of beer and spirits face a much higher risk of developing cancer than the population at large, says a group of Montreal epidemiologists and cancer researchers.
Oh shit, I am fucked now

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/7/2009 8:10:44 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

....ah, the pungent smell of economic eugenics

........must.....resist.....the....lure...of......Godwins...Law.......

LMAO!!


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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/7/2009 10:19:13 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


If she cant afford coverage, she cant afford to have kids.


....ah, the pungent smell of economic eugenics

........must.....resist.....the....lure...of......Godwins...Law.......


I suppose you think that someone who cant afford to feed their kids should have them?

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/7/2009 10:20:23 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

willbe... how deep was the silver spoon when you were born?


It was a plastic spoon. Worked through high school, partial scholarship to college, enlisted in the Army to finish college.

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Profile   Post #: 731
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/7/2009 11:25:59 PM   
Brain


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Right-Wing Turncoat Gives the Inside Scoop on Why Conservatives Are Rampaging Town Halls | Health and Wellness | AlterNet


The GOP is willing to disrupt the health care debate if they can't win it. Yesterday in Tampa, a mob of Glenn Beck supporters nearly caused a riot.

Editor's note: Stephen C. Webster writes for Raw Story the latest example of extreme right-wing demagoguery in Tampa on Thursday, this time inspired by right-wing Fox News's Glenn Beck:

"In a stunning display of anger, Florida Republicans and fans of Fox editorialist Glenn Beck turned a Tampa healthcare forum into a “near riot,” one reporter said, as they attempted to enter the meeting hall and drown out a group of community organizers and a member of congress There were at least two reports of violence at the forum.

“The meeting which was scheduled to begin at 6:00 at the Children’s Board of Hillsborough County drew hundreds of people who quickly began to overwhelm staff and event organizers at the front entrance,” reported Tampa news station 10 Connects. ...

“Thursday’s forum/near riot was sponsored by state Rep. Betty Reed, D-Tampa, and the Service Employees International Union, who apparently had hoped to hold something of a pep rally for President Obama’s health care reform proposal,” noted St. Petersburg Times reporter Adam Smith. He continued: “Instead, hundreds of vocal critics turned out, many of them saying they had been spurred on through the Tampa 912 activist group promoted by conservative radio and television personality Glenn Beck.

Others had received e-mails from the Hillsborough Republican party that urged people to speak out against the plan and offered talking points to challenge supporters.” Such “mobs” have been denounced in recent days by Democratic lawmakers, while journalists like MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow have revealed the corporate interests and Republican operatives that bankroll and organize these town hall disruptions.

****

Right-Wing Turncoat Gives the Inside Scoop on Why Conservatives Are Rampaging Town Halls
by Francis Schaeffer


The Republican Old Guard are in the fix an atheist would be in if Jesus showed up and raised his mother from the dead: Their world view has just been shattered. Obama's election has driven them over the edge.

Consider Former Congressman Dick Armey. Several far right foundations and the multitrillion dollar health-insurance industry have teamed up with him to organize the far right foot soldiers of the Republican Party to intimidate people speaking on behalf of health-care reform. They are using my old shock troops -- given many of these folks were first energized by the Evangelical pro-life movement that my late father and I started in the 1970s. What we did to clinics they are now doing to congressmen and others speaking out for health care reform.

Having failed at the ballot box, having watched their Fox News-organized "tea parties" fizzle the intimidation tactics which the Republicans have embraced are being used in a well-financed, top-down orchestrated fake grass roots campaign by corporate interests to try and protect the profits of the insurance business.

Armey's FreedomWorks is organizing against health care reform. Armey's lobbying firm represents pharmaceutical companies including Bristol-Myers Squibb. Armey's lobbying firm also represents the trade group for the life insurance industry. FreedomWorks is supporting the status quo at all costs. (They are also fans of fossil fuels. Armey's lobbying firm represents Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Prime Minister of the UAE, on energy related issues.)

Last year, the Wall Street Journal exposed FreedomWorks for building "amateur-looking" websites to promote far right interests of Armey. FreedomWorks represents a top-down, corporate-friendly approach that's been the norm for conservative organizations for years.

How do I know this is the norm? Because I used to have strategy meetings with the late Jack Kemp and Dick Army and the rest of the Republican gang about using their business ties to help finance the pro-life movement to defeat Democrats. I know this script. I helped write it.

Democratic members of Congress are being harassed by angry, sign-carrying mobs and disruptive behavior at local town halls. It's the tactic we used to follow abortion providers around their neighborhoods. "Protesters" surrounded Rep. Tim Bishop (D-NY) and forced police officers to have to escort him to his car for safety. We used to do the same to Dr. Tiller... until someone killed him.


How Can The Right Stoop So Low?

I used to know Dick Armey quite well. One of my sons even worked for him as an intern. I knew Armey in the context of his being a fan of my late Evangelical Religious Right leader father Francis Schaeffer.

(Back in the day when I was a right wing "pro-life" organizer who has long since quit the Republicans in disgust at their -- our -- descent into extremism and hate.) Armey was once a decent guy, whatever his political views. How could he stoop so low as to be organizing what amounts to America's Brown Shirts today?

I think I know what happened to him, Gingrich and the rest: They can't compute that their white man-led conservative revolution is dead. They can't reconcile their idea of themselves with the fact that white men like them don't run the country any more -- and never will again.

To them the black president is leading a column of the "other" into their promised land. Gays, immigrants, blacks, progressives, even a female Hispanic appointed to the Supreme Court... for them this is the Apocalypse.

The last presidential election (to paraphrase Bart Simpson) "broke their brains." What else could explain their embrace of intimidation -- rather than discourse -- over the health care debate and such unsavory moments of madness as the Republicans accusing Obama and Judge Sonia Sotomayor of racism, knowing full well that they'd just destroyed their chances with the Hispanic community forever?


The "Scorched Earth Policy"

Dick Army and company have been driven mad by their reversal, not just of political fortunes but of seeing that they've wasted their lives.

They now know they were wrong: about the country, the free market, war for fun and profit, and what the American people really want.

They made their best case and were rejected by the American people -- and by history. Bush was their man and he turned out to be a fool.

So now all the the Republican gurus have left is what the defeated Germans of World War Two had: a scorched earth policy.

If they can't win then everyone must go down. Obama must fail! The country must fail!



The Lobbyist-run Groups "Americans for Prosperity " and "FreedomWorks/ Dick Armey-Orchestrated Memo:

Here is a leaked excerpt from the folks organizing the intimidation campaign:


- Artificially Inflate Your Numbers:
"Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up. The Rep should be made to feel that a majority, and if not, a significant portion of at least the audience, opposes the socialist agenda of Washington."


- Be Disruptive Early And Often:
"You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep's presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep's statements early."


- Try To "Rattle Him," Not Have An Intelligent Debate:
"The goal is to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda. If he says something outrageous, stand up and shout out and sit right back down. Look for these opportunities before he even takes questions."


- The Last Republican Tactic: Outright Lies
A barrage of outright lies, wherein the Democrats are being accused of wanting to launch a massive euthanasia program against the elderly, free abortions for everyone, and "a government takeover" of health-care is now being combined with physical intimidation that in several cases has required police escorts to protect pro health-care reform speakers surrounded by angry plants sent to disrupt public forums on the health-care issue.

Demonstrators hung Rep. Frank Kratovil (D-MD) in effigy outside of his office. (Missing from the reporting of these stories -- with the notable exception of Rachel Maddow -- is the fact that much of these protests are coordinated by public relations firms and lobbyists who have a stake in opposing President Obama's reforms.

There is no daylight between the Republican Party, the health-care insurance industry, far right leaders like Dick Armey, the legion of insurance lobbyists, and now, a small army of thugs. All we're missing is actual uniforms, otherwise we now have a full blown American version of the Nazi Brown Shirts.

No, I don't believe that these people are about to take over the country. No, the sky is not falling. But the Republican Party is. It is now profoundly anti-American.

The health-insurance industry is run by very smart and very greedy people who have sunk to a new low. So has the Republican Party's leadership that will not stand up and denounce the likes of Dick Armey for helping organize roving bands of thugs trying to strip the rest of us of the ability to be heard when it comes to the popular will on reforming health care.


Conclusion: the Fascist Formula

Here's the emerging American version of the fascist's formula: combine millions of dollars of lobbyists' money with embittered troublemakers who have a small army of not terribly bright white angry people (collected over decades through pro-life mass mailing networks) at their beck and call, ever ready to believe any myth or lie circulated by the semi literate and completely and routinely misinformed right wing -- Evangelical religious underground. Then put his little mob together with the insurance companies' big bucks. That's how it works -- American Brown Shirts at the ready.

What's the results of the fascist formula for the rest of us? Well, think how this "method" worked against Dr. Tiller's abortion clinic and how that story ended. In this case a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to save our economy from going bankrupt because of spiraling health care costs may be lost, not because of a better argument, but because of lies backed up by anti-democratic embittered thuggery. The motive? Revenge on America by the Old White Guys of the far right, and greed by the insurance industry.


What Can Be Done?

It's time that this whole shabby (and insane) business be exposed, vilified in run out of town on a rail by whatever responsible Republicans -- if any -- that are still in the party and who want to see the fortunes of their party revived. Republican leaders taking insurance industry money via lobbying firms and using it to organize what amounts to roving bands of thugs not only need to be exposed but thrown out of the public debate forever. They should become absolute pariahs.

It's time to give this garbage in name: insurance industry funded fascism.

See more stories tagged with: gop, obama, right-wing

Frank Schaeffer is a writer and author of Crazy for God: How I Grew Up As One Of The Elect, Helped Found The Religious Right, And Lived To Take All (Or Almost All) Of It Back.

http://www.alternet.org/healthwellness/141833/right-wing_turncoat_explains_why_conservatives_are_rampaging_town_halls/?page=entire

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/7/2009 11:34:18 PM   
Arpig


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Hold on here, are you saying that a political party that opposes a contentious bill is organising its supporters to go out and actively oppose that bill through protests????  Well DUH!!! Isn't that what political parties of all stripes have been doing since they originated....in fact isn't that exactly how political parties form in the first place?

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 8:30:01 AM   
slvemike4u


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As long as the political party in question is encouraging peaceful engagement in the Democratic process...alls good.When the party...or fringe spokesmen for the party start encouraging disruptive behavior and organised obstruction of the process....not so good...not good at all.The path to anarchy is not that far ahead when the opposition learns they need not have actual ideas...just large enough mobs to block passage of legislation they deem odious to their cause/constituency.

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 9:17:15 AM   
Brain


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Researchers Produce First Nationwide Study Of Homeless In ERs

The first national study of homeless people's use of emergency rooms finds that homeless patients are more likely to arrive at the hospital by ambulance and more than twice as likely to be uninsured.

One-third of homeless patients arrived by ambulance at an estimated cost of almost $67 million, according to the researchers.

Analyzing almost half a million emergency room visits by homeless people, West Virginia University doctors also found that the homeless were more likely to receive more than two diagnostic tests a higher number compared with other patients.

At the same time, WVU researchers found no difference between the urgency of the medical emergencies in comparing both populations. The study is published in the current issue of the Journal of Health Care for the Poor and Underserved.

"The thing that surprised me the most was that acuity levels how sick the person was and hospital admissions rates were similar in comparing the homeless population to people with residences," said lead author Gary Oates, M.D., a WVU emergency medicine physician. "The sicker you are, the sooner you need to be seen by a doctor when you come to the emergency department. And the homeless patients were no sicker than others, looking at total visits to emergency departments nationwide."

Despite that, more diagnostic tests were ordered than for other patients. "This may be because emergency physicians needed to do baseline blood work because the homeless patient didn't have a primary care doctor," Dr. Oates explained. "Or it could be because the homeless population may be more prone to falls or injuries from assault injuries that may require x-rays."

Studying emergency room use is important in the context of the current national healthcare reform effort, Oates said.

"We already know that homeless patients make emergency room visits four times more often than others and are among the most frequent repeat visitors," he said. "Our study is the first study to look at data nationwide and compare the homeless population in terms of insurance status, use of ambulance transport, hospital admission rate, acuity level and other factors."

Two-thirds of the homeless patients were white and three-quarters were male.

The study's data came from the 2005 National Hospital Ambulatory Medical Care Survey, with information on more than 100 million emergency room visits during that year.

Federal hospitals were not represented in the data set, so populations such as homeless veterans were not included in the sample.

The study's other authors are Allison Tadros, M.D., also a WVU emergency medicine physician, and Stephen M. Davis, research coordinator for the WVU Department of Emergency Medicine.

Source: Virginia University Health Sciences Center

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/160063.php

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 9:24:24 AM   
Lucylastic


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But Brain, to a lot of people, the homeless are as "bad as the illegals and welfare scum"...they dont care what happens to them..There are plenty of examples in this thread.



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Profile   Post #: 736
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 9:31:20 AM   
Brain


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Health Reform Proposals Could Help 13 Million Uninsured Young Adults Gain Coverage

Comprehensive health reform proposals now before Congress could help the more than 13 million uninsured young adults ages 19-29 gain coverage, and such reforms would also help ensure that those who now have coverage would not lose it, according to a new Commonwealth Fund report. Extending health insurance coverage to all Americans through expansions in Medicaid and a health insurance exchange with a choice of private and public plans would help guarantee stable, affordable coverage for young adults, according to the report, Rite of Passage? Why Young Adults Become Uninsured and How New Policies Can Help, 2009 Update.

Young adults often become uninsured when they graduate from high school or college; turn 19 and are dropped from their parents' policies or become ineligible for Medicaid or the State Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP); have difficulty finding jobs; or are employed in jobs that do not come with health benefits. In 2007, nearly 30 percent of this age group, or 13.2 million, were uninsured - an increase of 2.3 million since 2000. With the unemployment rate currently at 15 percent among 20-24 year olds, up from 8.2 percent in 2007, more young adults are likely uninsured now.

"Because young adults face so many transitions - graduation, job changes, and in this economy, unemployment - they are especially vulnerable to the risks of being uninsured," said Commonwealth Fund President Karen Davis. "Comprehensive health reform would go a long way toward ensuring that young adults have stable, affordable health coverage that will give them access to the care they need, and protect them in the event of a serious illness."

Young adults are disproportionately uninsured: they comprise just 17 percent of the under-65 population, but represent nearly 30 percent of all uninsured Americans. Young adults are particularly at risk of losing coverage at graduation from high school or college: nearly 2 in 5 high school graduates who do not go on to college, and one-third of college graduates, experience a time uninsured in the year following graduation. As new entrants to the labor force, young adults are less likely than older adults to find jobs that come with health benefits, and are thus left to purchase health plans on their own in the individual insurance market, without the financial help of employer premium contributions.

The report analyzes how reforms such as those currently under discussion in Congress would affect young adults: Some proposals would allow young adults to remain on their parents' health plans until they are 26 years old; young adults in lower-income households, who represent nearly 70 percent of all uninsured young adults, would be eligible for Medicaid or sliding scale premium subsidies to purchase health plans through a health insurance exchange. Such policies would enable young adults to maintain health insurance through key life transition points when many experience gaps in their coverage.

Young adults who experience breaks in their coverage face a number of risks: about half (49%) of those who spend a time uninsured report medical bill problems or medical debt, just 41 percent have a regular doctor compared to 79 percent of insured young adults, and two-thirds (66%) of young adults who were uninsured for some period of time during the year went without needed medical care because of cost. While young adults are healthier as a group than older adults, about 15 percent have a chronic health problem such as asthma, more than half weigh more than what is considered to be a healthy weight, there are 2.7 million births to women in this age group, and young adults have the highest incidence of injury related visits to the emergency room of any age group.

"Loss of health insurance coverage impedes young adults' access to the health system at precisely the time they should be establishing their own relationships with physicians, and puts them and their families at significant financial risk," says study author and Commonwealth Fund Vice President Sara Collins. "It is critical that reform proposals provide comprehensive, affordable and continuous health insurance that young adults can count on regardless of where they work or whether they are in school."

Source:
Mary Mahon
Commonwealth Fund

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/160053.php

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 9:38:24 AM   
Brain


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Well, I'm not one of those people who think they are scum. And I also think we end up paying anyway when they go on welfare or when they end up in prison or by some other way. So we might as well help them in the first place because in the long run if we don't it probably ends up costing more. Besides, it's the civilized thing to do and were all humans whether we are black or yellow or Jewish or whatever.

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 9:52:03 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

But Brain, to a lot of people, the homeless are as "bad as the illegals and welfare scum"...they dont care what happens to them..There are plenty of examples in this thread.




They should be concerned. a homeless indivisual has no health history. they present at the hospital, and a battery of tests have to be ordered. they treat that person as if they have never seen physician before. talk about needless tests and costs! its people like these who have their health care rationed.

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 10:12:26 AM   
Sanity


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Glenn Beck is more of a Libertarian than a Republican... and, as I have pointed out in another thread, its funny how a year ago dissent was the considered highest form of patriotism among the left but now, less than a year later, anyone found guilty of disagreeing with the president needs to shut the hell up or get ready to have their head busted in.

The Democrat party needs a compass... because they seem totally lost. Their messages have no meaning because their principles are not anchored to anything solid, they constantly change with each new breeze.

This week the message is, protesters should be shot. What will it be next week?


quote:

The GOP is willing to disrupt the health care debate if they can't win it. Yesterday in Tampa, a mob of Glenn Beck supporters nearly caused a riot...


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