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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come?


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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/25/2009 7:09:16 PM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
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quote:

i would suggest a pig roast and a few kegs of beer!


Naw, I will not say it.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 281
RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/25/2009 7:12:20 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Hey, im from the south, we have pig roasts. guess some from up northern way would call it pulled pork? Anyways, its like a huge bbq... everyone gathers, friends and family, and its a goOd time to hash out old misunderstandings and everyone gets a fresh start... unless the guns come out.

i so need to go to bed... LOL

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/25/2009 7:14:45 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Lorr47)
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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/25/2009 7:13:37 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		whoa! did i ever have a severe blonde.. hour.

let me rephrase that... pork roast.. is that any better?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Lorr47)
Profile   Post #: 283
RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/26/2009 4:21:36 AM   
ColonelKurtz


Posts: 14
Joined: 2/25/2009
Status: offline 		So have you guys kissed and made up now??

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/26/2009 8:04:33 AM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ColonelKurtz

So have you guys kissed and made up now??


I imagine her as cute as a button and smart too.  So I guess we have made up.  Alas, we have not kissed.

(in reply to ColonelKurtz)
Profile   Post #: 285
RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/26/2009 8:05:44 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		~blows a kiss and grins

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Lorr47)
Profile   Post #: 286
RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/26/2009 11:26:47 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

When challenged at a Supreme Court level it is pretty clear cut. Now when police want to over step their authority, and local judges uphold them, that is not clear cut. This is why if you really want to press your rights, you usually need to go further up the ladder where there is less political pandering.



It is clear cut at the SCOTUS level with regard to warrants. You've posted nothing that Ive seen where SCOTUS ruled on anything remotely like a crime in progress.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/26/2009 12:34:54 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

When challenged at a Supreme Court level it is pretty clear cut. Now when police want to over step their authority, and local judges uphold them, that is not clear cut. This is why if you really want to press your rights, you usually need to go further up the ladder where there is less political pandering.



It is clear cut at the SCOTUS level with regard to warrants. You've posted nothing that Ive seen where SCOTUS ruled on anything remotely like a crime in progress.


The following case was based on a 911 call, just as the Gates controversy and People v. Shehady that you cited earlier.


Florida v. J. L., U.S. Supreme Court Case Summary & Oral Argument

Facts of the Case:

On October 13, 1995 Miami-Dade police received an anonymous tip that a black male wearing a plaid shirt was standing near a bus stop carrying a gun. The two officers who responded found three black males, one of which, J.L., a 15-year-old, was wearing a plaid shirt. After frisking him, the officers did find a firearm.

J.L. was charged with carrying a concealed weapon without a license. At trial, he moved to suppress the gun as evidence, arguing that the frisking performed by the officers was illegal under the Fourth Amendment. The trial court granted the motion, but was reversed by the immediate appellate court. The Florida Supreme Court overruled the appellate court and suppressed the evidence.


Question:

Did searching J.L. solely on the basis of the anonymous tip received by the Miami-Dade police violate his Fourth Amendment rights against unreasonable search and seizure?

Conclusion:

Yes. In a unanimous opinion authored by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the Court concluded that J.L. the anonymous tip did not meet the minimum requirements to perform a warrantless search.

Justice Ginsburg, drawing from the Court's logic in Terry v. Ohio and Adams v. Williams, indicated that an anonymous tip must posses a moderate level of reliability, including "predictive information" that offers police a "means to test the informant's knowledge or credibility."



(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/26/2009 1:09:10 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		But if the police had seen the man put his weapon in his pocket there would have been no problem... and with the Gates Case the police saw two men forcing the front door... Makes all the difference in the world.

You guys are trying to make something that was not there... and no court would listen to such nonsense... you watch too much TV I think.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 289
RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/26/2009 1:38:38 PM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But if the police had seen the man put his weapon in his pocket there would have been no problem... and with the Gates Case the police saw two men forcing the front door... Makes all the difference in the world.

You guys are trying to make something that was not there... and no court would listen to such nonsense... you watch too much TV I think.

Butch



No, the police did not.

He was already inside the house when the police arrived.

The forcing of the front door was the 911 caller's report.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 290
RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/26/2009 2:01:29 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Yes and they saw two men forcing open the door... they had no way of knowing why

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 291
RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/26/2009 2:18:05 PM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes and they saw two men forcing open the door... they had no way of knowing why


If  by "they" you mean the 911 caller yes they should have called.

And yes, as I stated previously I think Gates was in the wrong and provoked the situation.

But legally I don't believe the police had the authority some have said they do in response to a 911 call.



(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 292
RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/26/2009 2:26:50 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		And for those of us that do not watch TV? Maybe we are pulling from research and real life experience?


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But if the police had seen the man put his weapon in his pocket there would have been no problem... and with the Gates Case the police saw two men forcing the front door... Makes all the difference in the world.

You guys are trying to make something that was not there... and no court would listen to such nonsense... you watch too much TV I think.

Butch



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/26/2009 2:28:15 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		That is one of the Florida one's RML. There is another that is specifically about a 911 call, and the search of a vehicle from Florida and the search of just a vehicle was ruled as illegal.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 294
RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/26/2009 2:31:14 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		No... "THEY" meaning the responding police officers saw them forcing the front door...unless that account proves to be wrong

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 295
RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/26/2009 3:16:10 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No... "THEY" meaning the responding police officers saw them forcing the front door...unless that account proves to be wrong

Butch


I'm not sure what you are reading KD but everything I have read said Gates was in the house when the police arrived. 

Search it, the links are plentiful.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 296
RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/26/2009 3:18:07 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

That is one of the Florida one's RML. There is another that is specifically about a 911 call, and the search of a vehicle from Florida and the search of just a vehicle was ruled as illegal.


This one was specifically about a 911 call also.

This is the full text:

FLORIDA v. J. L. 529 U.S. 266 -- US Supreme Court







< Message edited by rulemylife -- 7/26/2009 3:22:28 PM >

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 297
RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/26/2009 3:27:26 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		That is one I missed. Thanks for that link! I did not save the link, but the one I saw was a rejection of an appeal. The grounds for rejection was that the defendent had to first show the attorney had handled the case improperly, but the justices did note that the grounds of probable cause based upon a 911 call would be inadequate to perform a search, and thus making the illegal weapon found from that search fruits from the poisonous tree. It also made references to reasonable suspicion and probable cause, giving at least their views on the differences and how they would apply.



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 298
RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/27/2009 5:23:54 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Hey, im from the south, we have pig roasts. guess some from up northern way would call it pulled pork? Anyways, its like a huge bbq... everyone gathers, friends and family, and its a goOd time to hash out old misunderstandings and everyone gets a fresh start... unless the guns come out.

i so need to go to bed... LOL


I'm from Michigan and we have pig roasts here.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 299
RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/27/2009 12:12:34 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Well the 911 call and the radio traffic between the officer and the dispatcher have been released.

Seems the officer lied in his report several times and Gates is heard in the background not yelling but is heard asking for the officers idnetifying information.

http://www.boston.com/

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