Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (Full Version)

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masterjoel2 -> Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/24/2009 12:46:27 PM)

??s I have been in this life style for many years, I am with My partner who is in the Mental health profession, we have been
noticing a trend, I guess you'd say ,, many sub females who seek to be dominated and participate in bd/sm lifestyle seem to be turning out to be boarder line personalities, I know very well that that I have personally been involved in the past with boarderline personalities who are ultimitly are topping from the bottom to acheive the constint recognistion boarder lines seek. I want to ask others who are familure with boarder line personalities if this is just perhaps the people we are meeting
or if there is a higher percentage attracted to this type of lifestyle???????





DesFIP -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/24/2009 12:50:49 PM)

How do you know they all had BPD? Did you see diagnoses from a clinical psychologist? Or are you seeing a couple of things and making this assumption.

We are a cross section of society and have about as much diabetics as there are in general society. About the same percent of people with unipolar depression. With hypertension. With Borderline Personality Disorder.

If you are meeting a much higher percentage of BPDs than exist in society at large, then you need to look at yourself. Why are you attracted to personality disorders?



ForMyBeloved -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/24/2009 1:08:43 PM)

BPDs are ambush predators, usually themselves the victims of child abuse seeking to release their fury on someone.

They attempt to appear to be the love of your life. Perfect in every way for what a person is seeking. In highly functional BPDs the ruse will not be detected until after the victim has fallen in love.

BPDs attempt to become so indispensable to their victims that regardless of subsequent behaviour the victim will not leave.

Once the victim is 'addicted' to the BPD, the BPD will engage in abusive behaviour. In many cases the verbal attacks make no sense, as the BPD is acting out the anger she feels towards her childhood abuser, using the victim as a surrogate.

To suggest someone is attracted to such an individual is to betray ignorance as to how BPDs work. Not to be too dramatic, but BPDs might best be compared to succubi, as most BPDs have extraordinary sexual drives.

I don't know if there is more of them, or I've become more aware of them, having had a run in with one and close calls with two others.

It is certainly a problem in this lifestyle, given what can occur when "consent" is given under the influence of this illness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder



masterjoel2 -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/24/2009 1:26:50 PM)

Thanks for the input and responses,  Formybeloved, this is most appreciated input, thanks.. 



lostyoungling -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/24/2009 1:34:19 PM)

I'm sorry but that is the biggest crock of shit I have ever heard. First off, I don't think the opinion of a man who can't ever spell borderline personality disorder is all that reliable. Secondly, not all borderline people are these awful abusive people just lurking waiting for poor unsuspecting victims. We're not freaking black widow spiders. We're just people. Sure, there's mood lability, intense emotional reactions, a propensity for self harm, and things like that but we're still just people and quite a few of us are perfectly functional in normal human interactions and make wonderful significant others. Don't talk about things of which you're ignorant. I completely agree with DesFIP. There are the same proportion of BPD people in the lifestyle as there are in the rest of the world. You're just looking for them to prove your point so they are more evident to you. 



masterjoel2 -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/24/2009 2:26:46 PM)

I posed this as a question from My  own experiences and others whom actually are qualified in the field. Not to prove a point! and yes we are all flawed in some manner or the other ,  and yes I do have a problem with spelling as I am a dyslexic. so this questioned asked was neither meant to say that  all borderline people are these awful abusive people just lurking waiting for poor unsuspecting victims or not, only to explore what I and My partner have noticed,,, and really please one who does not look at their selves deeply would not give two shits about this unfortunate Mental health issue in potential play partners , Safe Sane and Consensual is what We practice, and I feel the nature of our life style  causes Me to be responsible for the well being of Myself, My partner and the people we play with......  Mental health is a touchy subject at the best of times,
so please all you people that this question I put forth offends, then look at your self's.  , we are only asking of others whom may find a common finding.    That;s all folks!!



masterjoel2 -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/24/2009 2:35:45 PM)

ya redundant grammar too.......



CaringandReal -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/24/2009 2:49:56 PM)

Absolutely. I've run into an inordinate amount of borderline personalities in the years (actually, decades now) that I've been around the Scene. I don't see them nearly as much in other subcultures. I used to know a few professionals in the scene, including a psychiatrist, who had theories about this but I personally don't know why they are so frequently drawn to bdsm. I just know, from frequent experience that they are. And encounters with them caused myself and my former partner (not to mention friends of ours) more grief than I can can even begin to describe.

The descriptions I've seen in this thread about the disorder are new to me. Perhaps that, too, has changed over the years as it's become better known and more closely studied.




windchymes -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/24/2009 2:55:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ForMyBeloved

BPDs are ambush predators, usually themselves the victims of child abuse seeking to release their fury on someone.

They attempt to appear to be the love of your life. Perfect in every way for what a person is seeking. In highly functional BPDs the ruse will not be detected until after the victim has fallen in love.

BPDs attempt to become so indispensable to their victims that regardless of subsequent behaviour the victim will not leave.

Once the victim is 'addicted' to the BPD, the BPD will engage in abusive behaviour. In many cases the verbal attacks make no sense, as the BPD is acting out the anger she feels towards her childhood abuser, using the victim as a surrogate.

To suggest someone is attracted to such an individual is to betray ignorance as to how BPDs work. Not to be too dramatic, but BPDs might best be compared to succubi, as most BPDs have extraordinary sexual drives.

I don't know if there is more of them, or I've become more aware of them, having had a run in with one and close calls with two others.

It is certainly a problem in this lifestyle, given what can occur when "consent" is given under the influence of this illness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder


Based on this info (and I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it), it sounds as though the "victims" possess some degree of co-dependency and/or mental instability themselves, and perhaps the BPD's consciously or sub-consciously look for it and prey upon it.

Just a theory.....I'm nowhere near qualified to make any final diagnoses. 



DesFIP -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/24/2009 4:12:34 PM)

People at a PTA meeting are not going to share their mental diagnoses. But those of us who do wiitwd, do share this info. And earlier than we would in the real world.

There aren't more sick people here, simply more people who tell you they're sick.



synningsub -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/24/2009 4:53:19 PM)

i can agree that alot of ppl with bpd are also sub but not that we're all out looking for 'victims'.. i try to live my life with the awareness of my own issues and try to overcome them.. on my own, not thru bdsm activities.. ive often wondered if my own issues effect my masochistic tendencies but have come to accept them as part of me.. i dont seek out others to 'fix me' or anything of the sort, nor do i look for willing victims.. remember that not all ppl are alike, even if they carry the same diagosis or issues..



DesFIP -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/24/2009 7:05:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

Based on this info (and I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it), it sounds as though the "victims" possess some degree of co-dependency and/or mental instability themselves, and perhaps the BPD's consciously or sub-consciously look for it and prey upon it.

Just a theory.....I'm nowhere near qualified to make any final diagnoses. 


You're kinder than I am. I'm assuming that men who seek women who are hypersexual are horndogs who think with the little head and don't bother to see if they are compatible in any other way.



Firebirdseeking -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/24/2009 7:52:29 PM)

Here's an opinion from a mental health professional:  there are a lot of damaged people out here.  Period.  The older one gets, the more evident it seems, because there are a number of people who are not and have never been in a successful relationship - of any kind - and for good reasons, they are damaged.  I think a certain number of damaged souls seek "the lifestyle" because they think they will find greater acceptance in an "alternative" lifestyle, and this belief operates at an unconscious rather than conscious level.  There are also those who find it very difficult to function effectively and independently in the world, and they will seek the label of "slave" and will find a micro managing master.

Just my thoughts.  



Kalista07 -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/24/2009 7:55:20 PM)

i feel the need to provide some clarification here...... What it lists in the criteria for diagnosis is a history of promiscuity..Seriously, who amongst us can not fit that label?.... So that is the first error that i must clarify. Second, i think it is crucial to clear up this misconception that people who suffer from borderline personality disorder are not just laying in wait...waiting for some innocent man to come along until they can just sink their teeth into them.  i'm in fact really hesitant to even estimate how many people in this 'lifestyle' truly would meet the diagnostic criteria for borderline personality disorder...Because as many mental health professionals know people with severe post traumatic stress disorder have developed coping skills to get them through that actually mimic the symptomolgy of the criteria of borderline personality disorder.
Kali



masterjoel2 -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/25/2009 6:15:19 AM)

Well this is pretty much the conclusion we have come to, and the point you made on micro managing really seems to coincide with our experiences as of late, wile it seems to be the role of the persons in question to be the sub?slave if you will,,their constant need for attention really fly's against what it is to be a sub/slave, as Dom/Domme they leave us feeling as we are being topped from the bottom ,,  thank you for you opinions and input..
quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

Here's an opinion from a mental health professional:  there are a lot of damaged people out here.  Period.  The older one gets, the more evident it seems, because there are a number of people who are not and have never been in a successful relationship - of any kind - and for good reasons, they are damaged.  I think a certain number of damaged souls seek "the lifestyle" because they think they will find greater acceptance in an "alternative" lifestyle, and this belief operates at an unconscious rather than conscious level.  There are also those who find it very difficult to function effectively and independently in the world, and they will seek the label of "slave" and will find a micro managing master.

Just my thoughts.  



wandersalone -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/25/2009 6:36:06 AM)

I have written and deleted so many things trying to formulate a reply.  I believe it is extremely unlikely that you are coming across a raft of submissives who would fit the criteria to be diagnosed with a borderline personality disorder.  What I would say is that you may not be clarifying exactly what you want when looking for submissives and possibly are attracting those who are simply not a good match for you.  Sometimes a person will seem more needy, will act out, top from the bottom etc if they are unable to communicate in any other way that they want more from a relationship.  This doesn't mean they have a diagnosable disorder, just that they are not a match for you.

Given how often those that have spent years training to read and use diagnostic manuals such as the DSM IV get it wrong when diagnosing people, it scares me to see others throwing around statements like this from the OP - "many sub females who seek to be dominated and participate in bd/sm lifestyle seem to be turning out to be boarder line personalities"



lusciouslips19 -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/25/2009 7:14:46 AM)

This drives me nuts too Wanders.  I was on ALT  a couple years back and was actually e-mailed by a stranger and told that I had BPD. He got this from my profile. He said, I would push him away and then he would dominate me and soothe his girl. He pretty much thought all who chose submission are BPD. Well first off, how can one in an arm chair diagnose me without meeting me? What is your credentials? Push away anyone who would love me? Only the ones I know in my heart are toxic. I was married for many years did not push away and still manage to have a working relationship with for my son. Many in the field get it wrong. It seems to be the flavor of the month(BPD).  It seems to be a catch all diagnosis and many even in the feild dont really know what it is and mislabel.

I could make a statement that Dominants only seem to be mezmerized by the BPD and stay away from the more honest ones. WOuld that be true too? 

Bottom line, stay away from unhealthy people or perhaps people that you rub each other the wrong way.

Sorry for the rant. This subject sets me off thanks to the arm chair psychologist who didnt even know me.



Firebirdseeking -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/25/2009 9:18:48 AM)

Masterjoel, I want to add to this discussion.  I have also found that "masters" are not exempt from either being or acting borderline, I have encountered at least 3 or 3 here. 

I think men who are "dominant" may also gravitate to the lifestyle because they are not secure and confuse domineering with dominance; they have no idea how to provide leadership in a relationship, and many do not have their own lives in control, yet they are very obsessed with controlling another.

I met one man who didnt mind, "even enjoyed" crawling around in my head, but he did not want to talk about his own feelings, despite acknowledging the value of the intensity in a D/s relationship.  In other words, intimacy probs.

Just my opinion, again.   



Tantriqu -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/25/2009 10:04:46 AM)

Yes, I was just going to ask if other Dommes had a spate of unsolicited flames e-mails, rants and flames from men calling themselves doms in the last couple of days; I've had some doozies!
Perhaps males tend to exhibit their BPD more through hostility, hyperirritability and promiscuity so are easier for Dommes to spot and block before getting to the point of involvement let alone attachment.
And I've noticed dom men frequently don't spot the sub female lavishing them with attention is also histrionic, narcissistic or BPD because they each think they're uniquely deserving of such attention, and don't see it as needy, undiscriminating or a mood swing until the drama, abandonment and splitting start.

And speaking of anger disorder, although of course most murder-suicides are male shooter/female victim, perhaps BPD with substance abuse would be the diagnosis of the girl who shot the football player Steve McNair then herself.



Lockit -> RE: Mental health?? Is there any M health practitioners in this life style?Boarder lines?? (7/25/2009 10:28:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ForMyBeloved

BPDs are ambush predators, usually themselves the victims of child abuse seeking to release their fury on someone.

They attempt to appear to be the love of your life. Perfect in every way for what a person is seeking. In highly functional BPDs the ruse will not be detected until after the victim has fallen in love.

BPDs attempt to become so indispensable to their victims that regardless of subsequent behaviour the victim will not leave.

Once the victim is 'addicted' to the BPD, the BPD will engage in abusive behaviour. In many cases the verbal attacks make no sense, as the BPD is acting out the anger she feels towards her childhood abuser, using the victim as a surrogate.

To suggest someone is attracted to such an individual is to betray ignorance as to how BPDs work. Not to be too dramatic, but BPDs might best be compared to succubi, as most BPDs have extraordinary sexual drives.

I don't know if there is more of them, or I've become more aware of them, having had a run in with one and close calls with two others.

It is certainly a problem in this lifestyle, given what can occur when "consent" is given under the influence of this illness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder


Would you like to post something about their victims? Like how fast they fall in love and under the spell of a mentally/emotionally challanged, abused person... like how blind they are to get sucked into the whims of an unbalanced person looking for their next victim.

Nothing like putting out some fact's from a personal perspective and trying to prove that perspective with the facts. lol



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