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Spin & Desperation in Job Creation Reports - 7/29/2009 11:03:51 AM   
Mercnbeth


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The news..."In Oregon, where lawmakers are spending $176 million to supplement the federal stimulus, Democrats are taking credit for a remarkable feat: creating 3,236 new jobs in the program's first three months. "

Reality behind the news..."those jobs lasted on average only 35 hours, or about one work week. After that, those workers were effectively back unemployed,"

The spin..."Sometimes some work for an individual is better than no work," said Oregon's Senate president, Peter Courtney."

National news sans spin..." At the federal level, President Barack Obama has said the federal stimulus has created 150,000 jobs, a number based on a misused formula and which is so murky it can't be verified. "

Pragmatic non-denominational analysis..."You can't let them say, 'Well, we never said it was going to be full-time,'" said Steve Buckstein, a policy analyst for the Cascade Policy Institute, a free-market think tank. For the price of Oregon's $176 million, lawmakers could have provided all 3 million state residents with a one-hour job paying about $60, he said. "By their definition, that's 3 million jobs," Buckstein said.
"Is anybody gonna buy that?"


Source: SPIN

Anybody?

Anybody???

Not this person commenting to the article.... Well, technically the "stimulus" is working. After one week of work, these people are once again eligible for another 9 months of unemployment compensation, courtesy of the angry, racist, Socialist president.....and the hardworking taxpayer.

I wonder how long it will take for that opinion to constitute a electorate plurality? Will what I see as the only solution short of a revolution, don't vote for ANY incumbent, become a political movement?

Since I'm sure this will be a response from the postulates; if these leaders, who happen to be after the last election Democrats in the majority, really believed the excuse of "there hasn't been enough time" or "not all of the 'Stimulus' money has been spent"; why would they find it necessary to report fictitious results such as this? Do actions such as this have you believing that the 'Stimulus' is working and time on the current course is the only missing ingredient for turning around current trends?

I sure nobody will believe me, but I'm hoping that President Obama actually succeeds at something. I lived through the Carter Administration debacle and although it generated a personal and national economic boom represented by the Regan Administration, it also spawned the Newt Gingrich led radical right. Back in those days, the pendulum didn't have as radical a swing pattern.

The current Administration represents the pinnacle of left wing political swing. The pendulum already is swinging back the other way. The prospect of having the equivalent right wing pinnacle swing as a result is a scary proposition.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 7/29/2009 11:08:30 AM >
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RE: Spin & Desperation in Job Creation Reports - 7/29/2009 11:26:50 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The current Administration represents the pinnacle of left wing political swing. The pendulum already is swinging back the other way. The prospect of having the equivalent right wing pinnacle swing as a result is a scary proposition.


Not as scary as the pendulum stuck where it is now or moving further left.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Spin & Desperation in Job Creation Reports - 7/29/2009 11:31:44 AM   
servantforuse


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Obama is at a town hall meeting today, I think in Virginia. He is taking responsibility for the recession nearing it's end. Sheeese!! 

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Spin & Desperation in Job Creation Reports - 7/29/2009 11:38:08 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Obama is at a town hall meeting today, I think in Virginia. He is taking responsibility for the recession nearing it's end. Sheeese!! 


I am actually hopeful that the general public is becoming aware enough to not believe it.

(in reply to servantforuse)
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RE: Spin & Desperation in Job Creation Reports - 7/29/2009 11:43:26 AM   
Lorr47


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I will refrain from commenting until you cite the results from the impartial round table of Boortz, Beck, Limbaugh, OReily and Willbuerdaddy.  

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Spin & Desperation in Job Creation Reports - 7/29/2009 11:47:32 AM   
olena


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You mean politicians from both parties use short term anecdotal evidence that probably has no direct bearing on what they are actually discussing and know like every other human with logic knows can only be evaluated over a much longer period of time and spin it to back their position or bash their counterparts one? I am for one shocked and outraged this could occur in such a great country!

Obama came into office on a combination of popularity of the other party getting a chance but also got a huge boost by pretty much everyone but small percentage of people in euphoria that Bush was out of there. He had nowhere but down to go.

I think all we are seeing now is not the pendulum swinging back to the degree you are talking about but seeing the inevitable the more time in office the less false buildup stays in the numbers. Obama himself has stated over and over that a recovery no matter what is done would take time. But a bad economy always gets any politician in power in trouble and while Obama had the guts to take on healthcare reform it is a stupid thing to do politically and of course that has hurt his popularity.

I do not think this is a pendulum swinging the other way thing, it is still too soon and the Republican party still not getting it. But people reactions to a still bad economy and people natural reaction to healthcare reform. Until the Republican party can get there act together, learn they have to offer more to Americans then fear, hate and blame the media for everything which is more and more blame the American citizens when they do that then I just see Obama falling in line with a more realistic popularity number.

The country is still divided 50/50 and the middle is still not a fan of businesses running themselves into the ground so the executives get filthy rich, no regulation on anything and tax cuts for the wealthy to fix the economy that would get us in the same debt as spending it does. Healthcare is still a joke and slowly making more and more people poor and in poorer health for those who keep losing their insurance. These problems did not start with Obama and we are just not far enough removed yet to forget just how poorly the Republican party ignored or tried to fix these same problems.

You of course are right that the pendulum always swings back and there is a polarization in our current climate. But those thinking all the people who voted Obama in are changing their minds to the other side is delusional. Most of the outrage that is being heard are from people who had already decided Obama was a failure before he took office and are using the anecdotal PR spin trick of their own.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Spin & Desperation in Job Creation Reports - 7/29/2009 11:51:26 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

I will refrain from commenting until you cite the results from the impartial round table of Boortz, Beck, Limbaugh, OReily and Willbuerdaddy.


Requiring interpretation and establishing opinion based upon others agenda based editorializing is a symptom of the problem; as is making political party affiliation of the source a condition of agreement or disagreement.

Do commercially motivated talking heads on either side of the political spectrum determine your opinion?

I would hope integrity doesn't require a consensus or a source qualifier.

(in reply to Lorr47)
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RE: Spin & Desperation in Job Creation Reports - 7/29/2009 1:19:06 PM   
Termyn8or


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Merc, I want to almost say fuck you because I agree with you more than you maybe. It's not just that some of these jobs only last a week, it is not much better if they last a year or two. They don't actually bring in any new money so therefore are unsustainable. For example a highway project, let's say a guy gets a job for two years. The mortgage on a house can run 15-20 years, and most people take five years just to pay off a car. The net result is not the silver lining as described, to say the least.

I wanted in your other thread but you created a monster, and it gets into partisanship with some people no matter what you do. Perhaps the complete ommission of any names might help, but my disdain for the government is totally non-partisan. They are both responsible for this mess and neither side of the aisle is doing anything at all effective about it.

Now I don't know about the readers here, what kind of job everyone has and so forth, but there is a secrot of society that seemingly produces nothing, but makes money. These jobs are necessary, but they do not solve the base problem. Even if it is not we who do it, someone has to go out there and bring in some outside money. That means to make a product and sell it. Nothing more, nothing less.

I fix expensive TVs and a few other things. I don't bring in directly the sort of money of which I speak. The only thing good about my job is that all this shit is imported, so when I do my job I am slowing the flight of money out of this country. But I am still technically not bringing anything in. I guess I relegate that to thers, but the problem is that we seem to all have done that and now all we can do is shuffle the ever decreasing pile of money amongst ourselves.

The ills of this society run deep, much deeper than people think. Fully half of my friend/acquaintences are unemployed, most do not have cars or driver's licenses. Why ? There are no regular jobs, I mean like in factories and such. Those who work do so in resaurants and such, making half the money they used to make.

I see no difference in the parties worth mentioning. They are all the same, I could refer you to some jokes that seem to illustrate the point quite well down in the humor section. Years ago a Man who could read and write, and drive a car could make a living. He could learn to run a lathe or even a punch press. He could be assured of a job for quite some time if he can get there and produce. No more.

Thing is, people like that don't ask for nor need very much. If we have skills we command a better wage, but in the past they could make a living. Not everyone is cut out to be an insurance actualry or an engineer. Someone still has to put the pieces together. Now we let the Chinese do it. You simply can't make any money that way and that is what many people do not understand. While jobs in banking, insurance and the service industry may be important, it's all we seem to want to do, except for building roads and such, which still does not bring in any money directly.

What I see in the future is that we will move towards a seperatist economy, and not by choice. The USD will be deflated to the point where imports are too expensive. That might be good for my field, but it still does not directly bring in any money. I remember the boom in the housing market, as it happened they touted positive cash flow. Now how do we establish positive cash flow ?

The fact of the matter is that we are not. Perhaps we have forgotten how. All of the most lucrative industries that could do that have been relocated to China or some third world counry or something. Until we change the environment to make that process less desirable we face the same problems. There is one thing I can guarantee - we cannot solve these problems using the same thinking that caused them.

Nobody is on the mark here, although I would like to lay claim to that. I would have to be elected President to prove it, but I think the chances of that happening are about like my chances of winning the Olympics for Women's gymnastics. I would heavily penalize any business that moved their operations offshore, I would do alot of things. As President, public appearances would be rare, because I would be a prime candidate for assassination. The money people who molded this finacial environment are quite powerful. Just ask our most hated politicians, or those who got a piece of lead in the head.

T

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Spin & Desperation in Job Creation Reports - 7/29/2009 3:49:29 PM   
MarsBonfire


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Interesting... All this talk about how the stim money hasn't worked....

Wasn't it just last week that there were video reports being plastered all over the cable news outlet about how Bobby Jindhal was just now handing out the stim money? Is it safe to assume that now, just now, Governors throughout the 50 states are doing the same?

So... the stim money had been voted on and passed... and it's just NOW being passed out... but you guys were bitching about how it hadn't worked for months?

LOL... wanna bitch about how your October 09 paychecks aren't working for you yet?

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Spin & Desperation in Job Creation Reports - 7/29/2009 4:08:37 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Interesting... All this talk about how the stim money hasn't worked....

Wasn't it just last week that there were video reports being plastered all over the cable news outlet about how Bobby Jindhal was just now handing out the stim money? Is it safe to assume that now, just now, Governors throughout the 50 states are doing the same?

So... the stim money had been voted on and passed... and it's just NOW being passed out... but you guys were bitching about how it hadn't worked for months?

LOL... wanna bitch about how your October 09 paychecks aren't working for you yet?


I wish I could project winning horses this well at the track.

quote:

Since I'm sure this will be a response from the postulates; if these leaders, who happen to be after the last election Democrats in the majority, really believed the excuse of "there hasn't been enough time" or "not all of the 'Stimulus' money has been spent"; why would they find it necessary to report fictitious results such as this? Do actions such as this have you believing that the 'Stimulus' is working and time on the current course is the only missing ingredient for turning around current trends?


Obviously you are of the belief the 'Stimulus' is working. In case you missed it here is how it is "working" in Oregon. "In Oregon, where lawmakers are spending $176 million to supplement the federal stimulus, Democrats are taking credit for a remarkable feat: creating 3,236 new jobs in the program's first three months. " "those jobs lasted on average only 35 hours, or about one work week. After that, those workers were effectively back unemployed,"

The "positive" results are fictitious. It's working just like I, and many others, expected it would.

I'll bet you my October paycheck against yours that the unemployment percentage for October 2009, much higher than October 20008. Unless of course they calculate the results fictitiously as has been the case in Oregon and is being attempted nationally.

Tell us - when will you think enough time has passed for the second phase of the Bush Economic Stimulus program put in place by this Administration have a positive effect? Will you credit President Bush who had the original concept?

(in reply to MarsBonfire)
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RE: Spin & Desperation in Job Creation Reports - 7/29/2009 4:27:06 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth



Tell us - when will you think enough time has passed for the second phase of the Bush Economic Stimulus program put in place by this Administration have a positive effect?


About 7 months from now, when there is a temporary jolt from the planned roll out of stimulus money timed for the 2010 elections. Till then any claim that whatever recovery there has been is due to anything other than the business cycle is total hogwash.


quote:

Will you credit President Bush who had the original concept?


About as much credit as he gets for the robust economy for 7 years of his Administration, despite the Clinton recession, 9/11, Enron etc.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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