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A bit confused - 8/3/2009 4:18:51 PM

Posts: 2
Joined: 6/25/2009
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I would love to get some opinions from this Forum. I thought being a slave means serving, to stride to make your owner's life fruitful, easier, fulfilling and complete as far as owning this male. My confusion is that I am told that though I am a good slave in many ways, I would still be considered more of a sub, borderlining topping from the bottom. Reason being that I serve in the manner of the ways that I enjoy. I thought, I was showing my talents and strong points in my submission. The house would be cleaned from top to bottom, laundry was done and folded. All meals were prepared and served. All erronds & food shopping. I would bath her, massage her with hot baby oil before her bed. Sexually I would cater to all her fetishes. But some I couldn't. Maybe this was the reason! I am not one for play parties, and serving multiple people. I viewed my enslavement more as a Femdom 1 on 1 with my being exclusive to Mistress. Though I was disappointed, her feelings were different. But I was a slave and in my mind that was that. Mistress has other males. Some as slaves and some bulls. I have never objected or commented. I would wait for her until she came home and serve her. Undress and get her a night cap before bed and massage her feet till she sleeps. As a Mistress I do know it is all about her and not me. I am trained and focussed on my duties to her. I understand that as a Woman she was born to be served and I as the male believing in Female Supremacy was born to serve Womankind. Now that she has relocated I am finding this all out now. And bothers me that all along I wasn't fulfilling enough. I had very little if any boundries when it came to her because I loved her. What ever she read or learned at some of the Floating World festivities, Tess Fest's, Black Beat Parties, classes at the Crucible, or at the Power Exchange in NY. I would obey and have performed any act of kink for her at command. Where did I go wrong? I humbly ask for advise. Thanks tm

RE: A bit confused - 8/3/2009 4:41:03 PM

Posts: 131
Joined: 6/4/2007
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This is kind of a tough question. Different people have different ways that they define "sub" and "slave". More than likely you and your Mistress did not see eye to eye on what she thought being a slave was and what you thought being a slave was. It doesn't mean either of you were wrong, but if she saw you as a sub and wanted a slave, then you were mis-matched. You probably had a break down of communication somewhere. If she had a certain requirements to be a slave to her and you did not meet those requirments, then to her you were not a slave. A different Domme may see it differently.

This is just me, but I would have viewed you as a sub, also. Reason being, you stated "I serve in the manner of the ways that I enjoy." In my admittedly narrow view, a slave serves in the manner of the ways that his MISTRESS enjoys. But again, just my view.

< Message edited by queencaliph -- 8/3/2009 4:45:29 PM >

(in reply to truthfulmale)

RE: A bit confused - 8/3/2009 7:28:43 PM

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Next time talk more beforehand and make sure you're compatible. You should both be happy in the relationship. If there's a mismatch, you won't be.

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Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to queencaliph)

RE: A bit confused - 8/7/2009 12:58:24 AM

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Joined: 9/2/2005
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I would see you as a service-oriented sub ... which is awesome if that is what a Domme wants! However it seems that your former Mistress wanted more of an all-rounder ... someone who would do the chores AND happily attend play parties with Her. Did you stop to think that maybe She was just dying for an opportunity to show off Her devoted "slave"? But you were being non-slave-like in refusing to go. I would have had difficulty with this being a hard limit (though I do believe slaves can have hard limits) unless you were able to clearly show Me how attending could be harmful to you physically or emotionally. I would be willing to agree on boundaries and limitations for eg if you were to serve others, but I would see your place as being beside Me, so if I'm attending, so are you.

That said, submission is a journey and you live and learn through each opportunity. A good time now for some soul-searching as to what, for you, is the "price" of submission. For if it comes at no cost to the submissive ... is it submission or self-satisfaction?

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: A bit confused - 8/7/2009 1:09:54 AM

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I'm agreeing very much with Jay here.

When I have a boy that serves Me well, why should I be ashamed of that? Why should I not use his services when I entertain in My home or be proud of his submission to Me?

_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to MaamJay)

RE: A bit confused - 8/7/2009 8:05:21 AM

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Joined: 12/26/2008
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Well, I'm a service oriented slave as well, and would feel uncomfortable being taken to such an event and being made to serve in public. I like to keep private matters private. But it would not be a hard limit.

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: A bit confused - 8/7/2009 8:05:24 AM

Posts: 113
Joined: 6/10/2009
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quote:

I am told that though I am a good slave in many ways, I would still be considered more of a sub, borderlining topping from the bottom. Reason being that I serve in the manner of the ways that I enjoy.

Bingo - you are serving in the ways that you enjoy. How about asking Her what She wishes.

_____________________________

She reaches up, not for the apple, but for what causes it to be there.

"I will always be the virgin-prositute, the perverse angel, the two-faced sinister and saintly woman." - Anais Nin

Owned by Chairman

(in reply to truthfulmale)

RE: A bit confused - 8/7/2009 8:07:30 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ignoreme

Well, I'm a service oriented slave as well, and would feel uncomfortable being taken to such an event and being made to serve in public. I like to keep private matters private. But it would not be a hard limit.

In My opinion, your definition of "serve" is too narrow.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to ignoreme)

RE: A bit confused - 8/7/2009 8:11:27 AM

Posts: 49
Joined: 12/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

In My opinion, your definition of "serve" is too narrow.

Why do you think so? The only think I said is that it would make me feel uncomfortable. I'm just not much of a people person. Not that I would make a problem out of it, if it makes her happy I would do it.

< Message edited by ignoreme -- 8/7/2009 8:17:28 AM >

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: A bit confused - 8/7/2009 8:27:17 AM

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Because service isn't just something that's provided at home. If My glass empties while at a public establishment and you fill it, is that not service? If I'm shopping and you carry the bags, is that not service? If you open a door, bring Me a book I'm looking for, or help Me with the legwork to put on an event, all of these are service. Why would you feel ashamed at any of these?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to ignoreme)

RE: A bit confused - 8/7/2009 8:38:33 AM

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
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The main difference it seems between a service slave and a service sub is who's prefrences are in the service. Fox does not only sere in ways he enjoys, he does whatever is asked of him. I would not want to take him to a public play party, becuase although he would go if I asked the impact on him emotionally would not be worth it. However at home and out, he never questions his service to me. He will do as asked or told whether we are at home alone, with friends and family, or in a public setting.

When you are only interested in serving in private, even if you are the most devioted servant in existance, it is still only a service sub. It is much like a bedroom sub, where the dynamic ends at the bedroom doors. If you cease being in her service when you are not at home in private then you are not a slave. A slave's service does not end just because they may be a bit put off in public, they serve where and when the Mistress wants or needs it.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: A bit confused - 8/7/2009 8:39:46 AM

Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline

Servitude is not just in the lifestyle. As the Lady Pact has stated it is everywhere.... in restaurants... the kindness of a stranger.

It is not a simple "Use me" but a "let me take the burden so that you may have an easier time".

I have pride-in public and in private- in showing my devotion and servitude. In public situations it does not have to be sexual or kinky at all. I don't know... it is just the way I am. You're happy, I'm happy.

_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: A bit confused - 8/7/2009 8:41:17 AM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

I would see you as a service-oriented sub ... which is awesome if that is what a Domme wants! However it seems that your former Mistress wanted more of an all-rounder ... someone who would do the chores AND happily attend play parties with Her. Did you stop to think that maybe She was just dying for an opportunity to show off Her devoted "slave"? But you were being non-slave-like in refusing to go. I would have had difficulty with this being a hard limit (though I do believe slaves can have hard limits) unless you were able to clearly show Me how attending could be harmful to you physically or emotionally. I would be willing to agree on boundaries and limitations for eg if you were to serve others, but I would see your place as being beside Me, so if I'm attending, so are you.

That said, submission is a journey and you live and learn through each opportunity. A good time now for some soul-searching as to what, for you, is the "price" of submission. For if it comes at no cost to the submissive ... is it submission or self-satisfaction?

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

Awesome post, MaamJay!

OP: rather than wondering whether you are sub or slave, the better questions would be:

1.) Why did you settle for someone who is so obviously a bad fit for you?
Low self esteem maybe? Just a guess, but whatever the reason, you should find out so that you can properly address the issue. Don't look for just the surface reasons (OMG she was gorgeous and sooo dominant in such a yummy way, or whatever) - dig deeper.

2.) How can you make sure that next time, you choose someone you match up well with?
I am in agreement with you, if you are asserting that a slave should be able to have a happy, fulfilling life. We all deserve that chance. But the way you give yourself that opportunity is by choosing an owner with whom you are compatible to begin with, both in and out of bed. How can you make sure that the next owner you choose for yourself has needs, desires, and goals that are compatible with yours?

_____________________________

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(in reply to MaamJay)

RE: A bit confused - 8/7/2009 8:43:04 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Next time talk more beforehand and make sure you're compatible. You should both be happy in the relationship. If there's a mismatch, you won't be.

Agreed. One's D/s philosophy, not simply kinks, has to match to create a strong bond.

(And take heart, not every Domme is a public player.)

_____________________________

~ Miss Marie

a.k.a. "mean Lady"

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: A bit confused - 8/7/2009 6:28:29 PM

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Joined: 10/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm agreeing very much with Jay here.

When I have a boy that serves Me well, why should I be ashamed of that? Why should I not use his services when I entertain in My home or be proud of his submission to Me?

I agree with this assertation as well but I'll have to add a disclaimer because of my dynamic with my pet.

My pet does not like to attend fetish events with me because of two reasons
1) he is socially awkward (not much to elaborate with that one)
2) he gets a bit upset when nobody acknowledges that he is a switch.

_____________________________

Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive. .
Could a blue screen of death constitute being defenestrated?
~Owner of wolf~ (one of them, anyway)

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: A bit confused - 8/7/2009 11:38:18 PM

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I take Your point PsyVamp and I am guessing that it is Your desire not to place him in awkward positions often that means You don't take him to such events. I fancy it wouldn't have been a case of him saying "No, i don't think i would like that so i refuse to attend even once"? Everyone has their strengths and their weaknesses and it is up to Dominants to work with those sensitively. That said, I'm the sort who would then go to work to help them develop their own social skills and also to negotiate a system whereby their switchiness would be acknowledged. At some play parties, a coloured ribbon system is used to indicate D/s nature ... I would be allowing a switch sub of Mine some time to exercise his dominant side under My overall supervision. If after a few tries it just wasn't working out, then it might become My discretion to say, ok you stay home (with the rider of "and don't get sulky about Me going without you!").

I also agree with LP's earlier post about some subs seeing service as a private thing unnecessarily. A sub serving Me in public just comes across as someone who is devoted to Me and who has impeccable manners! Surely a good image, not a bad one and not to be ashamed of. It's not all about kneeling and pussy worship boys!

For Me the key issue is whether he is ever willing to do something he may not LIKE but which he agrees won't HURT him. For Me, that is the cost of genuine submission and for Me, his willingness to do that without drama is priceless. Up until that point, while he is only doing things he likes or wants to do ... it may be very nice to receive but it is self-satisfaction, not submission. I may not ask it of him often, but it's his answer when I do that makes it for Me.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to PsyVamp)

RE: A bit confused - 8/8/2009 12:44:03 AM

Posts: 49
Joined: 12/26/2008
Status: offline

quote:

Because service isn't just something that's provided at home. If My glass empties while at a public establishment and you fill it, is that not service? If I'm shopping and you carry the bags, is that not service? If you open a door, bring Me a book I'm looking for, or help Me with the legwork to put on an event, all of these are service. Why would you feel ashamed at any of these?

Sorry, I was indeed unclear I didn't mean to say I had problems with any of those things. I like carrying her bags while shopping, opening doors for her, ordering drinks. That's normal serving and, I would simply consider it 'good manners' (as MadamJay already says). I've even always done that for vanilla girlfriends. I'm subservient in any setting, not just at home.

But I'm not the type for more extreme BDSM play in public.

< Message edited by ignoreme -- 8/8/2009 12:47:51 AM >

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: A bit confused - 8/8/2009 10:44:31 AM

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Joined: 4/28/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truthfulmale

I am a good slave in many ways, I would still be considered more of a sub, borderlining topping from the bottom. Reason being that I serve in the manner of the ways that I enjoy.

Maybe the portions that I highlighted in red are why She considers you more of a sub than a slave, especially the serving in the manner that you enjoy rather than how She enjoys. Although I consider myself a sub rather than a slave, I still serve Sir in the manner He prefers AND do everything within me to AVOID Topping from the bottom. I think the reality matters more than the definition of a word, but if you need to be a slave the bottom line is, as She is the Dominant, it's Her definition that really matters. Then you need to decide whether you can live with it or not. These things need to be discussed and talked through before you decide to enter into a relationship.

_____________________________

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In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to truthfulmale)

RE: A bit confused - 8/8/2009 6:43:55 PM

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Joined: 10/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

I take Your point PsyVamp and I am guessing that it is Your desire not to place him in awkward positions often that means You don't take him to such events. I fancy it wouldn't have been a case of him saying "No, i don't think i would like that so i refuse to attend even once"? Everyone has their strengths and their weaknesses and it is up to Dominants to work with those sensitively. That said, I'm the sort who would then go to work to help them develop their own social skills and also to negotiate a system whereby their switchiness would be acknowledged. At some play parties, a coloured ribbon system is used to indicate D/s nature ... I would be allowing a switch sub of Mine some time to exercise his dominant side under My overall supervision. If after a few tries it just wasn't working out, then it might become My discretion to say, ok you stay home (with the rider of "and don't get sulky about Me going without you!").
Maam Jay aka violet[A]

Yes, I did take him out a few times, but even in vanilla settings he feels a bit unnoticed because of the social awkwardness. Instead of him continuing to feel awkward, I opted to go to events without him if he declines the invitation. I still invite him each time, in case he has a change of heart...
Unfortunately, out here in the sticks there aren't many choices and the only events are larges ones which entail much planning and travel so he doesn't have the chance to desensitize.

quote:

For Me the key issue is whether he is ever willing to do something he may not LIKE but which he agrees won't HURT him. For Me, that is the cost of genuine submission and for Me, his willingness to do that without drama is priceless. Up until that point, while he is only doing things he likes or wants to do ... it may be very nice to receive but it is self-satisfaction, not submission. I may not ask it of him often, but it's his answer when I do that makes it for Me.

He does, on occasion, escort me to some lesser events and regular social gatherings...and he does serve at these places, in small 'covert' ways like opening doors and fetching me refreshments.
I do not refer to him as a slave, ....we agree that he is 'filling in' as a slave while keeping his 'pet' status....even though there are a few Masters who have told him straight out that he's already serving me as a slave *laughs*

Although, to the OP, my pet does serve in ways he does not enjoy
He does not enjoy housework....
He does not enjoy shuffling my adult son back and forth to work....
He would rather stay home and play on the computer instead of driving me to CT on Tuesday, but you can guess what he will be doing

Maybe, truthfulmale, you do serve in some ways that you don't enjoy, but they seem so small that you never noticed.

_____________________________

Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive. .
Could a blue screen of death constitute being defenestrated?
~Owner of wolf~ (one of them, anyway)

(in reply to MaamJay)

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