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ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2
I've been here so many times so am going to respond by typing in the box..

........ being that I've never been in a D/s relationship (because I either meet the wrong guys and/or can't get past the beginning of things, as explained below), I am wondering if this "issue" of mine possibly has anything to do with the D/s dynamic in itself;  i.e., are there some subs who simply need to give up all control to the one with whom they're involved in order for things to run smoothly?  I ask because, left to my own devices, I'm pretty good at running things into the ditch. 

If you have at least begun a relationship with a D/s dynamic than you have had a relationshup within a dynamic. Don't negate any experience as valueable experience.

The more likely explanation, I'm sure, is that I just need a lot of attention and reassurance in the beginning, until trust has been established and a solid foundation has been built. 
As submissives it is my opinion that we need attention and reassurance. It's fundamental.

I'm not interested in "playing", and not interested in the lifestyle per se.  I just want something good and real with someone I really like and could maybe one day love.  Honestly I may have found that, but due to what I speak of below, I ended things for the third time in a week. 

Ahh the love requirement. There are as many definitions of love as there are human beings on the planet but forward....
:

I am beginning to suspect that the only way in which I will ever move from the "liking" stage to a solid commitment is if someone holds on tight and refuses to let go until the period of uncertainty has passed. 

 

No. In my opinion uncertainty, on some issues, never goes away. That's just fantasy lala land. It is committment within which uncertainty should and could be handled. If uncertainty cannot be handled then there is no committment.

 

I'm sure this is due in part to the fact that a few weeks in, I suddenly drop everything else in my life and cease to be myself for a while. 

Submission simply feels like this sometimes. And becoming enslaved, mentally and emotionally feels like ceasing to be oneself and becoming an instuemmnt of a Master;s will. It's as simply like that. There are phases of life when this is more possible than others. If you still hanker for freedom then be free. You hold the power to consent: that lies with you, remains with you and will always be with you unless you consent to give that up also.

I am also very intolerant of many things, and I feel easily betrayed -...

Betrayal is a concept I don't really understand within this context but I'll think on it.

You have also been offered some very sound advice here, namely:

Red
If I'm into someone, I want to talk to her as much as possible. Different men are different. Instead of thinking about "guys," did you spend time thinking about him?
I know it sounds like Red is accusing you of being selfish here. But I think he has a very valid point and re-interpreted there is a deeper level to sunmission which is service. If your main motivation is not serving a dominant's need and desires, (re-focusing on him rather than yourself) then this will come in time. Sevice and a developed capacity to serve is an evolution within a dynamic. It deepens even for those who place service as their main priority. It is a question of immersion and deepening.
 
Danemore
I may very well be off-base here and if I am, please know that it wasnt to bring you down. I honestly think that the issues you have written about have nothing to do with D/s
I both agree and disagree. Those of us who are into power exchanges will focus on that. But all relationships, no matter how vanilla they may be described, have elements of power balance. power conflict or power exchange. 

leadership
became convinced that he really no longer cared about me

became true, he had failed you as your dominant and you absolutely positively should've run screaming for the hills.
And this I believe is a statement from an experienced dominat who thinks about his responsibilities as a dominant. To the degree to which the domiant or Master (this is not a debate as to differentiation here) is prepared to take that responsibility is the degree to which the submissive can submit. That's the power exchange equation. Simply put.
 
And finally, for now, part of what we think a 'good' s type should do is never blame the domianant. But if the relationship is wrong maybe it's just the wrong relationship.
No matter how many times you run your patterns of relating, repetition doesn't mean it's going to make a wrong thing right.
 
This might sound like a whole lot of not-what-to-do. But truly the only way forward is to do what is in your heart. The right domimant will enable you to feel safe enough to look there.

Submission is like an ocean. There is no end to it. There is only a deepening. I still continue to look for help when Ifeel I am drowning. Even if it means looking outside of the dynamic I am in or releasing myself from it. No shame.

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As submissives it is my opinion that we need attention and reassurance. It's fundamental.

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No. In my opinion uncertainty, on some issues, never goes away. That's just fantasy lala land. It is committment within which uncertainty should and could be handled. If uncertainty cannot be handled then there is no committment. 

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Submission simply feels like this sometimes. And becoming enslaved, mentally and emotionally feels like ceasing to be oneself and becoming an instuemmnt of a Master;s will. It's as simply like that. There are phases of life when this is more possible than others. If you still hanker for freedom then be free. You hold the power to consent: that lies with you, remains with you and will always be with you unless you consent to give that up also.

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If your main motivation is not serving a dominant's need and desires, (re-focusing on him rather than yourself) then this will come in time. Sevice and a developed capacity to serve is an evolution within a dynamic. 

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...became true, he had failed you as your dominant and you absolutely positively should've run screaming for the hills.
And this I believe is a statement from an experienced dominat who thinks about his responsibilities as a dominant. To the degree to which the domiant or Master (this is not a debate as to differentiation here) is prepared to take that responsibility is the degree to which the submissive can submit. That's the power exchange equation. Simply put.

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But truly the only way forward is to do what is in your heart. The right domimant will enable you to feel safe enough to look there.

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I still continue to look for help when Ifeel I am drowning. Even if it means looking outside of the dynamic I am in or releasing myself from it. No shame.

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ORIGINAL: rayne221

Wow.. okay, let me have a go at this.
First, let me say that i seek precisely the type of relationship you do and for me, I realized the way things are labeled and defined now, what I really seek is a DD (Domestic Discipline) relationship and not a D/s one. (D/s more and more is now falling under the umbrella of BDSM and the kink and lifestyle.)
This 'initial' period you speak of, may well be the stage that was coined by a great friend of mine as the "Throw them off the mountain" or "sabotage" period. For some reason, (everyone has their own reasons) we almost subconsciously sabotage the relationship before it has a chance. Often the sabotaging is cause by a lack of trust or faith and it's a way we test to see if they truly can take our worst.
Having gone down that road myself, i have some fantastic advice for you. This was not my idea by the way, but a recent Dom's who I have recently started growing close to. Not only does it provide for me the reassurances I need but magically it entirely dissolves the need to sabotage.

"You MUST communicate with me what you are thinking." He said
Now, to say "communicate" is so general and we've all heard that before. When he said it the way he said it though... i finally GOT IT. When I was feeling that I was the one calling him all the time and he was not calling me...and that i was 'chasing' him.... i told him. I shared with him that i was feeling like our dynamic was moving into one where i was chasing him as opposed to a shared interest in one another. I added that i am too old to chase... i don't run that fast anymore. LOL. He responded instantly with "Never feel the need to chase me .... I am pursuing you and I will never allow you to feel "unhunted'. That was instant reassurance for me, and i no longer felt the need to sabotage it and throw him off the mountain. Instead... i felt so cared for.
Sometimes our subbie emotions are so child-like. And they need to be able to take that child and sit down with them and explain the way things are. Like the time I was jumping up and down and saying to this Man -- "Let's meet this Friday... i know it's only two days away ...but let's DO IT. " He responded with the fact he had tickets to a game. I felt an instant let down. Instant dissapointment and like that five year old who has been told i can't have that treat. I even found myself wondering if he really DOES want to meet. I received an email shortly after from him stating: " Let me be clear. I do want to meet. I do want to get to know you more. Meeting on Friday though just can't work this time." IT was truly like he took me calmly...sat me down ... and told me directly that ... he does love me.. that he does care about me..that he does care abotu what i want... but this time... he just can't give me that treat." It was all I needed to once again, be reassured and feel cared for. The only thing which I will stress that can't be child-like, is our communication. Instead of the temper tantrums (which is a sabotage in and of itself) ,....communicate in a way of sharing rather than judging or blaming.

i don't know if any or all of this fits at all... but you just might find a nugget of gold in here with some luck...that you can use.... so that you too will find a Dom who will calmly and gently ... lead you from the mountain edge.. tell you ... 'we don't need to do that' and deal immediately , maturely and calmly with the issue.

Good luck hon.

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ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2

Prinsexx,
 
Thank you SO much for taking the time to share your thoughts with me.  My responses to the things that struck me most:

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As submissives it is my opinion that we need attention and reassurance. It's fundamental.

I'm really glad to hear you say this.  I'm so concerned with not wanting to appear needy or clingy; to appear that I really don't need much attention because I'm fine on my own.  And I fear that asking for it will make me appear weak and vulnerable. 
Well you can be...with someone and on your own. It's a simple, but sometimes complex efoort to discover where the boundary between you and a dominant is. The boundary for me is permeable and yes I have and do sometimes respond to dominants as if they are 'me' an extension of me. I call it intuitive service. Now some d -types I have known have refferred to it as second guessing them You see that would be a wrong relationship dynamic for me. 

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No. In my opinion uncertainty, on some issues, never goes away. That's just fantasy lala land. It is committment within which uncertainty should and could be handled. If uncertainty cannot be handled then there is no committment. 

Such a helpful point!!!  You're entirely right.  However, what if all of this happens before a real, spoken-out-loud commitment has been made with the other person?  Once a commitment has been made, and once I know that we are BOTH committed, I cope with things much better.  But then I suppose there is the concept of making the commitment not to give up in the face of uncertainty, which I'm sure is closer to what you mean.
Committment is not a solid state technology. It's a process. A real, solid, spoken or contracted committment doesn't make any difference if it comes before the process has begun. That's the same as a marriage certificate which just becomes a useless piece of paper if the process of marriage isn't there. Again committment evolves as it is future directed. 

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Submission simply feels like this sometimes. And becoming enslaved, mentally and emotionally feels like ceasing to be oneself and becoming an instuemmnt of a Master;s will. It's as simply like that. There are phases of life when this is more possible than others. If you still hanker for freedom then be free. You hold the power to consent: that lies with you, remains with you and will always be with you unless you consent to give that up also.

See, it feels perfectly natural to me to put my relationship (and therefore my bf/Dom) first and foremost above all else.  And isn't this what slaves do, basically?  And submissives to some extent?  You say submission feels like this sometimes, and I'm grateful to hear that.  Maybe it just means that this is who I am and where I fit.  However, in the vanilla world, putting yourself and everything important to you on the backburner for a guy is really seen as a no-no.  Guys don't tend to like it, either.  Perhaps Dom guys do though?  I mean, what do they expect... they want your service and appreciation, right?  Ugh, so frustrating.  Again, I'm so terrified of appearing clingy that the effort not to trumps all else.
There is no sliding scale of better/worse or more/less in the difference between submission and slavery. For me submission is an act (ot's behavioral) and slavery is a state of being within which certain degress of submission are required. The requirements are set by the Master. A dynamic is not gender specific but I'm retty certain you realise this.
 

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If your main motivation is not serving a dominant's need and desires, (re-focusing on him rather than yourself) then this will come in time. Sevice and a developed capacity to serve is an evolution within a dynamic. 

This definitely goes along with the above point!  Focusing on him is what I do, to the point that it is doable being that we aren't living in the same area.  I've gradually done more of what he said he wanted, and I did it for the sole reason that I respected him, cared for him, and wanted to please him.  I could feel myself starting to submit in ways that I never have before (on a mental/emotional level).  You're right, it's an evolution that occurs over time.  The problems with this began when I became insecure about spending so much of my time and thoughts on him because I felt like it was going to scare him away.  Perhaps I am confusing vanilla and D/s given that I've never been in a lasting D/s situation.  And honestly, I think what I need is REASSURANCE in order to grow within myself, within the relationship, and within my submission to him... which are all intertwined I guess.  I need reassurance that this is what he wants from me.
Yes you do need reassurance. Yes you deserve it.
I do not need reassurance that I am a slave. But I do need reinforcement for my submission. That reinforcement happens to be cross-wired. I am as equally rewarded by pain and pleasure.
 
p.s. I realize I keep switching back and forth between past and present tense, which is because I feel like he's most likely done and yet I wish that we weren't done.
 

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...became true, he had failed you as your dominant and you absolutely positively should've run screaming for the hills.
And this I believe is a statement from an experienced dominat who thinks about his responsibilities as a dominant. To the degree to which the domiant or Master (this is not a debate as to differentiation here) is prepared to take that responsibility is the degree to which the submissive can submit. That's the power exchange equation. Simply put.

Very good to know.  I would have really liked it if he had stepped up to the plate a little more, and honestly, that's all it would have taken for me to be okay!!
In my experience you cannot make a dominant personality step up. If that person is unwilling and/or unable to step up then free yoursef mentally, emotionally and physically. And in my experience I have become increasingly aware that I may never be party to whether the d type was unwilling or unable.

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But truly the only way forward is to do what is in your heart. The right domimant will enable you to feel safe enough to look there.

Another good point.  The thing that is in my heart is that I want to be with him.  But do I feel safe enough at the moment to take a step back in his direction?  Nope, because I have no idea what he's thinking or feeling.  Maybe I just missed something, but looking back, it doesn't seem like he communicated many of his wants/needs or feelings to me, which makes it hard to put myself out on the line for him yet again.  Seems like if he cared to make it work, he'd make a little of the effort this time, in an assertive rather than a passive way.
Caring does not necessariily come into it. But if this has taught you that you need caring then it has served its purpose. Sorry for typos. Lots to do.....
 

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I still continue to look for help when Ifeel I am drowning. Even if it means looking outside of the dynamic I am in or releasing myself from it. No shame.

THANK YOU!!  I hope you'll come back to read what I just said and give me your further thoughts!!!!!!

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Another good point. The thing that is in my heart is that I want to be with him. But do I feel safe enough at the moment to take a step back in his direction?

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Nope, because I have no idea what he's thinking or feeling. Maybe I just missed something, but looking back, it doesn't seem like he communicated many of his wants/needs or feelings to me, which makes it hard to put myself out on the line for him yet again. Seems like if he cared to make it work, he'd make a little of the effort this time, in an assertive rather than a passive way.

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See, it feels perfectly natural to me to put my relationship (and therefore my bf/Dom) first and foremost above all else. And isn't this what slaves do, basically?

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ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2
So twice now I have responded to your post - and twice the page has failed to load after I tried to post my response.  I guess CM is having issues, cause I keep getting logged out of the forums.

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ORIGINAL: daintydimples

I think it's natural and normal for a submissive to need a great deal of emotional reassurance in the early stages of a relationship. Once we've agreed to exploring a relationship together, I won't chase or pursue. I have to feel that desire is reciprocated. If I feel it is not being reciprocated, the first couple times I will initiate a conversation about why that is (sometimes you make assumptions or just get things wrong).  If it's an on-going pattern, I determine we are not emotionally compatible and move on.

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ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2

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ORIGINAL: daintydimples

I think it's natural and normal for a submissive to need a great deal of emotional reassurance in the early stages of a relationship. Once we've agreed to exploring a relationship together, I won't chase or pursue. I have to feel that desire is reciprocated. If I feel it is not being reciprocated, the first couple times I will initiate a conversation about why that is (sometimes you make assumptions or just get things wrong).  If it's an on-going pattern, I determine we are not emotionally compatible and move on.

This is great, thank you so much.  It's very eye-opening.  I'm realizing that once I become the pursuer, and once he slacks off on his efforts, THIS is when I start feeling nervous and scared.  If he simply made it obvious that the desire was reciprocated, this would be all I need to avoid freaking out and sabotaging things. 

Ya know, when I first started this post, I felt like all of this was entirely my fault.  That he was behaving perfectly, and I however was not.  I'm coming to realize that it's not all my fault.  He wasn't reassuring during moments when it was needed.  It wasn't enough. 

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ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2

To RedMagic1-
 
Believe me, I know.  :(  The problem is that there were moments in which I became convinced that he really no longer cared about me, and so I ended it before he did.  I didn't feel that it would hurt him.  I've explained things to him, but thinking about it now, I imagine that it was nonetheless hurtful.  I learned this way of being in relationships, btw, by having it done to me many many times, which I know is no excuse.  It's just very hard for me to trust anyone.

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ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2


What you say about sometimes getting things wrong... this is the problem, because I don't know if
a) he was no longer interested enough to show care or attention and/or was starting to turn into an asshole, feeling like I'd be there no matter what, waiting on him
b) he was playing games, playing hard to get, whatever you want to call it... and feeling an ego boost when I made contact
c) he was just trying to back off a little and give me space, slow things down a bit
or
d) he was protecting himself and his emotions after I ended things twice

I decided on my own that it was most likely (a) and proceeded to shut myself off in order to protect my own self. 

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While you are working on this, the fact that you are aware about it and honest will help a great deal. Your baggage is essentially just like any other quirk in a relationship and if you're up front about it, then at least you are inviting the folks who are making the decision to make that upward climb with you.

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ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2
After reading posts from other girls about their bf/Doms, I see that there are at least a few good guys out there who will stick with you through it, which is nice to know.  :)

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ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Are you saying that you met a guy you really liked, so you told him it was over?  And then he forgave you and started things back up again, so you told him it was over again?  And then he gave you another chance, and you told him it was over yet again?

I don't know if you've ever thought of it in these terms, but dominant men get their feelings, egos, and hearts hurt, too.  It's not just female subs who take emotional risks in new relationships.

How much do you think you damaged this man?  How long will it take him to trust another woman, much less another woman who says she wants to be submissive to him and then treats his emotions like a yo-yo?

Perhaps it would help if you realized that it's not all about you.  If you've been doing this for years, you've probably been hurting men for years.  Is that really the kind of person you want to be?