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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/17/2009 7:42:37 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		and alot of times mom is out working, and so is dad, at those minimum wage jobs, hoping their children do better. instead they get stuck with teachers who do nothing but sit on their asses and draw a check, not giving a damn abou the kids in class. find kids who enjoy school, and i know you will find a teacher they feel care about them.

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/17/2009 7:51:23 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		My parents worked and I didn't like school either, but I went anyway.Thats what you're supposed to do. The students in Milwaukee get a bus ride to school, a breakfast and lunch. They still don't go. That's being lazy and if they want to spend their life asking paper or plastic, thats their choice. The school system is paid for. Take advantage of it or suffer later.

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/17/2009 8:10:56 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		take advantage of what... they no longer teach... no child left behind... the kids coast and the teachers are glad to allow them too

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
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Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/17/2009 8:19:23 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		How do you know if your teachers care about your education if you never show up for school in the first place ? When they do get a job, at whatever pay rate, are they going to skip work because they have an employer that doesn't care about them ? 

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/17/2009 9:37:43 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Doesn't sound like a very good alternative to the street, then. I think we can do better.


We can always do better. The question I’m asking is: at what expense (and I don’t just mean monetarily) can we do better? If you screw over Peter to help Paul, how are you making things better?

quote:

The old "if we can't make it perfect, we shouldn't even try" BS never really held much weight for me. I'm demanding that we strive for the best we can do, which I hope is a far sight better than "if your family can't deal with you, tough shit".


You are misunderstanding what I mean when I say the perfect is the enemy of the good. I am accusing you (and others) of demanding the perfect from me so as to discredit my views. I know the perfect is unattainable. I know that you can’t legislate the perfect society. I don’t claim to have all the answers. I would never be so presumptuous to think that we can solve problems by legislative fiat (e.g., raising the minimum wage) which seldom – if ever – solves problems without creating new ones. More often they only screw over some people (Betty the housewife who wants to work a part time job while the kids are in school) in order to favor others (Joe the not to bright dishwasher).


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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/17/2009 9:40:30 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

My stepdaughter is apparently a top ranking student: at fourteen, she has no clue where England is and seems to believe Europe is a country. Need I say more? It's beyond appalling.


What are you doing about this?


< Message edited by Marc2b -- 8/17/2009 10:03:05 PM >

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/17/2009 10:54:31 PM   
DedicatedDom40


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissJanice2


I am getting 20 hours weekly,  and I have a house. 




According to some in the political blog-o-sphere, the problem has been quickly pinned on too many people buying too much house. Clearly, we have been told by the elder generation and grand political poobah that one must buy a house that accommodates the premise that someday, you may only receive half of your hours at work.

Are you one of those people who overbought?


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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 6:03:58 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

My stepdaughter is apparently a top ranking student: at fourteen, she has no clue where England is and seems to believe Europe is a country. Need I say more? It's beyond appalling.


What are you doing about this?



What do you think I'm doing about this? Invested in an Atlas to begin with - she'd never even seen one.

Schools are pushing an Americanocentric view of the world - swearing allegiance to a piece of cloth and all that crap - which makes students believe that, somehow, they are in the center of the universe, as if there wasn't a whole world out there, beyond their borders.

Trust me, I'm doing my best to rectify the propaganda that she is being fed, but it's not an easy feat. I pity the teachers.



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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 6:32:53 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		And then they go to college and rail against those who attempt to teach them there.

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 11:49:56 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

What do you think I'm doing about this?

I have no idea but I was just curious to know whether you were of the "I demand the government do something about this" type or the take direct action type.

quote:

Invested in an Atlas to begin with

It's a start. Things have never been the same since the schools decided to do away with Geography class and replace it with the Social Studies nonsense. I think I may have been the last American generation to be taught how to read a map and where various countries actualy are.

quote:

- she'd never even seen one.

You can probably blame the advent of the computer age for that.

quote:

Schools are pushing an Americanocentric view of the world - swearing allegiance to a piece of cloth and all that crap - which makes students believe that, somehow, they are in the center of the universe, as if there wasn't a whole world out there, beyond their borders.


I'm not so sure about that. All of the current crop of young people I know can tell you lots of stuff about other cultures, nations, religions, etc, but draw a blank if you ask them what year the American Civil War started. As for the Pledge of Allegiance - don't get so bent out of shape over it. For most of us growing up it was just a meaningless ritual. Until about sixth grade I was usually thinking about all the fun I could be having if I wasn't in school right now. From sixth grade on I usually used the time to check out the cute tushies on the girls.

quote:

Trust me, I'm doing my best to rectify the propaganda that she is being fed, but it's not an easy feat. I pity the teachers.


Don't pity the teachers. They are being well paid to turn out illiterates.

As for your step daughter, short of home schooling, I can only recommend that you strive to teach her that:

A) There are at least two sides to every story.

B) Nobody has a monopoly on the truth.

C) No culture, race, etc, has a monopoly on good or evil.

D) Change and compassion begin with the individual.

E) Question everything.

That's just my opinion.


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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 11:54:55 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Don't pity the teachers. They are being well paid to turn out illiterates.


Actually, they're being poorly paid to babysit large classes of students whose parents would rather defend them than have them taught.

Then those students decide they want to teach, and the problem goes to hell fast.

Trust me. Certainly there are good ones, but the education majors are some of my worst students. They've always been told they can read and write just fine, and they're done with reading and writing, thank you very much.

We are a culture that prizes willful ignorance.

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 12:01:17 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
We are a culture that prizes willful ignorance.


I'll even go so far as to say that this culture has elevated ignorance as a virtue, whilst making knowledge a subject of suspicion (see: the whole creationism in schools debacle). 

If only local boards of education didn't have so much power over the curriculum that is taught in schools... 

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 12:04:51 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Actually, they're being poorly paid...


I don't know about Munnsville but here in Western New York average teacher salary is around $60,000 (according to WIBV News). I know of teachers who are earning over $100,000. That's not poorly paid in my book.

As for the rest, you won't catch me disagreeing - much.




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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 12:08:22 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

If only local boards of education didn't have so much power over the curriculum that is taught in schools...


So, does this mean we can count you in as an advocate of greater freedom in education (e.g. homeschooling, voucher programs, etc)?



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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 12:23:36 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
We are a culture that prizes willful ignorance.


I'll even go so far as to say that this culture has elevated ignorance as a virtue, whilst making knowledge a subject of suspicion (see: the whole creationism in schools debacle). 

If only local boards of education didn't have so much power over the curriculum that is taught in schools... 


I agree that some do elevate ignorance above scholarship. I think there are very cynical people who decry the "educated elite" all the while sending THEIR kids to ivy league colleges.

I disagree that local school boards shouldn't have so much sway in what is taught in their local schools. I think responsive board members should be able to help guide the standards of the community.  
  That said, I think there should be a standard that all students should meet prior to graduating from high school (And I'm NOT talking about the "No Child Left Behind" mess). From what little I have observed, I don't think today's schools are meeting what should be minimum requirements.

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 12:33:07 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

I don't think today's schools are meeting what should be minimum requirements.


I CAN tell you that most--not many, MOST--arrive at college without reading, grammar and composition skills, despite many earning A grades in English, including AP students. They know nothing of history--nothing. Civil Rights/Civil War--no difference to them. No, I'm not exaggerating. One student had never heard of the Civil War.

Their critical thinking skills are absolutely non-existent. Research = Google, with no ability to evaluate the results. Whatever comes up is truth. If nothing comes up, the information doesn't exist. This is their world. All else is pointless to them.

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 12:37:09 PM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		How friggin' depressing!!!

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 12:49:28 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

So, does this mean we can count you in as an advocate of greater freedom in education (e.g. homeschooling, voucher programs, etc)?



Why not promote an American standard of education instead? If people want to indoctrinate their offsprings by suppressing their socialisation, I suppose it is up to them, but it is tantamount to abusing them, in my opinion.

As for private schools... whoopee doo for those that can afford them. The rest of us will have to contend with what's available publicly (libewals that we are)... incidentally, it is in a local private school that my stepdaughter, then aged 11, was taught that God created everything, and that evolution was a fallacy.


< Message edited by kittinSol -- 8/18/2009 12:52:15 PM >

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 12:56:41 PM   
cornflakegirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

If only local boards of education didn't have so much power over the curriculum that is taught in schools...


So, does this mean we can count you in as an advocate of greater freedom in education (e.g. homeschooling, voucher programs, etc)?




You've got my vote. I'm one of those crazy homeschoolers, though.

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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/18/2009 1:00:57 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cornflakegirl
I'm one of those crazy homeschoolers, though.


Is it for religious reasons, because you don't trust your local public system, or a combination of these two reasons, or more?

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