RE: Personal Morality/Inhibitions in a PE Dynamic

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RE: Personal Morality/Inhibitions in a PE Dynamic - 8/11/2009 11:01:16 AM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

And then there is "Take my reins. I don't know where you're going, and that, frankly, scares me some, but I know that I am ready for you to hold the reins without -needing- to know where you're going."

Well, that is an argument for slaves/subs to automatically serve the first person who comes along and demands it of them.

I'm referring to "where you're going" as a symbolic representation of the D-type's virtues, characteristics and traits; their persona. Where a person is going personally and philosophically is what will attract someone to follow.

So, a servant or slave knows where the d-type is going (or what the end result is expected to be from discussions of expectations and such) but trusts the paths that is taken to get there based on understanding thequalities of the D-type.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

PLUS "I am taking the reins. I have a journey we will go on, and I expect you to go where I direct you... however, if you ever find that you absolutely -must- go down a different road, then I will consider that this likely means that this leg of our journey together must come to an end." and -that- is more like what I perceive as my philosophy on the issue of personal morality (ethics) and inhibitions, particularly when addressing TPE/comprehensive-authority type dynamics.

I do like that.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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RE: Personal Morality/Inhibitions in a PE Dynamic - 8/11/2009 12:55:18 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

It does get a little complicated here and I admit I may be more prone to view things symbolically and internally rather than in practice

I also work largely in the conceptual levels.. which as you say.. works out well sometimes and less well others. Honestly NZ, I can detect that there is some fundamental difference WAY down in the lower layers in the way you're seeing the problem and the way I am.

I am making a wild speculation that the difference boils down to the following. In our relationship:

The slave does not need to protect her self from her master. Honestly, I don't even know how people end up in situations where the slave does need such protections. I cannot imagine why you'd even submit at all to someone that you felt might do you dirt. But, people apparently do it day in and day out and see it as totally normal. But it's not how it is in my marriage.

The master does not need to protect his authority from his slave. Again, I'm really baffled by this. Why do people who don't want to give up authority submit? And why would anyone take them? But again, this also happens day in and day out and is considered normal. Carol doesn't want my authority and she doesn't want to challenge it. Given ANY command, her #1 preference, by far, is to obey.

If you sit in a quiet, dark room and reshape your thought constructs as I've noted above, I'd be interested in your thoughts about the system as a whole. I'm guessing that you'd quickly come to where I am... it's just not worth my time worrying about all the various ways in which Carol might try to skate out of a command. She's not looking to do any of that. It's a pretty safe guess, that if she brings me a problem, then it's a real problem and really needs to be addressed. In fact, the specific "formula" I've given her for such statements kind of matches your #2 exactly...

"Yes Master, I am prepared to obey. But there's one or more things you ought to know first..."

Put another way, it is her exceptioanl skill and ability as a follower which sets me free as a leader. I don't waste a lot of time trying to setup systems and procedures and safeguards. That lets me focus on the real shit. A really wise senior executive once told me that you cannot solve a social issue with a policy or procedure. In other words, if two managers, Jack & Bob, both hate each other and refuse to cooperate, then no amount of new procedure is going to get the two groups working well together. It's the same thing here. If the two people in the relationship cannot get their acts together, then no amount of rules, contracts, rights, promises, or what have you is going to fix that.

Oh, and insofar as altering what "total" means, sorry -- can't help you there. I didn't pick the word and I can't help it that there is no such thing as an absolute in the real world (that'd be outside of the conceptual frameworks you and I live in *laughs*). But if you are actually trying to implement an absolute in the real world, then I want to urge you to reconsider. Even things like the "absolute speed of light" and "absolute zero" are both either debunked totally or called significantly into question. Nature just doesn't work that way as much as all us logical people really wish it would.

But just to make that last point concrete. If I were to command Carol to call up her elderly mother right now and offer her some lesbian sex, she'd tell me that I was a fucking idiot.... just as I would hope that she would. So there's at least one part of "total" that we have both carved out and not included. I could roll out endless examples of such things.... commands that if she actuallly DID obey them, I'd feel like I'd failed her as a master.

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~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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Post #: 42

RE: Personal Morality/Inhibitions in a PE Dynamic - 8/11/2009 7:10:43 PM

catize

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quote:

The slave does not need to protect her self from her master.

The master does not need to protect his authority from his slave.

Look at the question from Ask a Master that generated this thread. How many of us would consider the need to ask ‘would you expect me to perform a sexual act while I am responsible for the care of someone else’s UM?’ ,

It happens because, under the guise of dominance, too few actually want to pilot a relationship, preferring the low road of living out all their fantasies while forgetting the realities.

And it happens because there isn’t enough attention paid to the fact that what one party believes is fucking idiocy may be for the other person, ultimately sublime and the ‘true test’ of whatever label they put on their relationship.

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RE: Personal Morality/Inhibitions in a PE Dynamic - 8/15/2009 8:37:49 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
The slave does not need to protect her self from her master.

I actually see why this is needed and necessary in a healthy balanced relationship.... HOWEVER, the phrasing is incomplete....

"The slave does need to protect herself, Her Master and the relationship from the Master"

simple fact... Master is human and can make errors... slave has brain and can in an appropriate manner determined by the Master point out these moments where the direction is less than desirable for the well-being of the Relationship, Master and/or Slave.

Of course.. keep in mind it a matter of prespective and opinion that such direction is going to lead to such damange...

Next.... protection doesn't mean those extreme examples... sometimes it's the simple things........"STOP", yells slave.. as slave sees the vehicle running the red light!... ok maybe that is extreme... but well the Master was driving and well he didnt's see the car coming because well he was looking the other way... HE is Human and can't see everything. Bad things happen to good people all the time... and the more good people there is looking out for each other... we are better off... and sometimes.... good people make a mistake or two... but when one is working together.... the mistakes are fewer.... I know that this has been the way it works in my world..... I can't tell you how many mistakes I have not made because my girls have been on the ball...... Simple things like making a wrong turn (or not making a turn which I have been known to do often lol)

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Post #: 44