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RE: Pelosi calls SEIU Actions "Un-American" - 8/11/2009 1:45:05 PM   
Brain


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It's not unreasonable to say George gave the corporations whatever they wanted and they did very well under him, especially the drug companies. So you could call that corporatist or maybe you could call it fascist. It's definitely control over labor since the Republicans are very antiunion and refuse to support a living minimum wage but they do let the corporations do whatever they want, like insurance companies not paying Hurricane Katrina victims and they have most of the courts stacked with Republican judges.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

All of that is authoritarian,or even totalitarian in nature,but it is not fascist. Fascism is a distinct political & economic philosophy. It is in fact opposed to unrestrained capitalism and advocates the establishment of strict government control over both business and labour. It is anti-liberal and anti-conservative at the same time. Fascism advocates the creation of a single party state. According to Mussolini (the founder of Fascism) it aimed to bureaucratize the economy. Various political scientists have placed Fascism on the extreme right,whileothers have placed it on the extreme left. It is both and neither. It is neither capitalist or communist,it is corporatist.
As you can see, GWB was most definitely not a fascist.



(in reply to Arpig)
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RE: Pelosi calls SEIU Actions "Un-American" - 8/11/2009 1:54:20 PM   
Brain


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The original topic is a lie. Pelosi did not call the SEIU actions un-American and you have misrepresented what she said which is why most people objected to the statement at the outset so I won't repeat their comments again.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: Pelosi calls SEIU Actions "Un-American" - 8/11/2009 1:57:33 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


To bureaucrats we're no better than cattle.

Moo.



And you are not subject to health insurance company bureaucrats now?

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Pelosi calls SEIU Actions "Un-American" - 8/11/2009 2:23:05 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Back to the original topic ...

Here is more about how much "substantive debate" and how "civilized townhalls" should be run ...

Health Care for America Now website:

Extracts:

How should we interact/what do we say to the other side?

1. Do not debate on their “policy” points. ...

2. Interrupt them when they get disruptive and refocus the meeting: Line up a number of people who feel comfortable interrupting and prepare them with statements ...

5. We should demonstrate that we are the majority by chanting

Other gems:

Choose a venue that is difficult for the opposition to access without being noticed.

Collect signs and leaflets that are not provided by you or your organization.



This "guidance" page is rich with points of discussion, hypocrisy, and sheer lunacy.

Firm



Here's something you missed.

From your link:

You can help fight back against these right-wing disrupters.

Follow the steps below to attend events in your area and get trained on how to deal with disruptions, intimidation, and name-calling at the events.

You are disingenuously trying to imply that both sides have been doing it, instead of the reality that it is the town hall protest movement, funded by health reform opponents that spent millions of dollars to organize these protests, that has caused the problems.

Now we have a situation where health reform proponents feel the only way to counteract the protesters is by being as disruptive as they are.

Meanwhile, the people who financed this, and stand to benefit by health care reform being defeated, are laughing all the way to the bank. 


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RE: Pelosi calls SEIU Actions "Un-American" - 8/11/2009 2:50:27 PM   
Sanity


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I have choices today, my health insurance rep knows that, and he is very respectful of that fact.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


To bureaucrats we're no better than cattle.

Moo.



And you are not subject to health insurance company bureaucrats now?



_____________________________

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(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Pelosi calls SEIU Actions "Un-American" - 8/11/2009 2:50:27 PM   
FirmhandKY


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Utter horseshit.

I gave the link. And barely touched on the hyprocrisy and BS that is available from a discussion of that site. If I have more time, I'll open some of those discussions.

In this case, what you are arguing is that, you think that "disrupting" a meeting is ok if people you sympathize with are doing it, but somehow wrong if people you disagree with are doing it.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: Pelosi calls SEIU Actions "Un-American" - 8/11/2009 3:59:46 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

im not sure what you are trying to point out here.


I think the subect line may be confusing you. Pelosi didnt call the SEIU actions "un-american", shes just fine with them coming in and "maintaining order", its those concerned citizens who remind that fucking moron Dingell-berry of the KKK.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Pelosi calls SEIU Actions "Un-American" - 8/11/2009 4:02:16 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
You are disingenuously trying to imply that both sides have been doing it, instead of the reality that it is the town hall protest movement, funded by health reform opponents that spent millions of dollars to organize these protests, that has caused the problems


No you are disingenuously ignoring the fact that the disruptions didnt start until the SEIU and Pipefitters union were sent out to stack the crowds and "maintain order". It didnt work with the Hells Angels at Altamont, and it wont work here.

(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: Pelosi calls SEIU Actions "Un-American" - 8/11/2009 4:18:06 PM   
Brain


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The United States has the worst health care system in the world and gets the least bit value for the money spent, that is what right-wing conservative Republicans are defending. I think the article below says it all.

Published on Thursday, August 6, 2009 by CommonDreams.org
Corporate Greed Vs People's Health in America
by Cesar Chelala

As the health care discussion has gathered momentum in the U.S., there is increasing evidence of the role played by corporations and politicians to hinder provision of adequate health care to the majority of Americans. The result is that the U.S. has one of the worst health care systems among industrialized nations.

Studies carried out by the World Health Organization and the Commonwealth Fund in New York show that the U.S. health care system overall performance ranked 37th among the countries included in their analysis.

The Commonwealth Fund study, released in 2007, entitled "Mirror, Mirror on the Wall: An International Update on the Comparative Performance of American Health Care," found that not only is the U.S. health care system the most expensive in the world, but comes in dead last in almost any measure of performance.

The Commonwealth study compared the health system in the U.S. and that of Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand and the United Kingdom.

Although the most evident way in which the United States differs from the other countries is in the absence of universal coverage, the U.S. is also last in terms of access, patient safety, efficiency and equity.

Compared to the other countries studied, the U.S. lags behind in the adoption of information technology and other national policies that promote quality improvement.

In countries such as New Zealand, Germany and the United Kingdom, up-to-date information systems enhance physicians' ability to monitor chronic conditions and medication use.

At the same time, the U.S. pays a higher percentage of health dollars for administration than any other nation.

The U.S. is behind all industrialized nations in terms of health coverage.

Almost 47 million Americans lack health insurance coverage, which represents more people than the entire population of Canada.

As pointed out by Wendell Potter, a former health insurance executive, if this number includes all those that are underinsured, that represents more people than those living in the United Kingdom.

According to the Children's Health Fund, 9 million children are uninsured in the U.S., while another 23.7 million -nearly 30 percent of the nation's children- lack regular access to health care.

There are several ways corporations pressure politicians not to support health care plans that benefit the majority of the population. As Wendell Potter stated during an interview with Bill Moyers, "By running ads, commercials in your home district when you are running for reelection, not contributing to your campaigns again, or contributing to your competitor..."

In addition, Potter described how a Republican strategist suggested the use of phrases such as "government takeover," "delayed care is denied care," "consequences of rationing," "bureaucrats, not doctors prescribing medicine," which despite being evidently untruthful were faithfully parroted by politicians opposing health care for all.

Through several mechanisms insurance companies deny coverage to people so as to increase their profits.

As Potter explained in a testimony to the U.S. Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation last June, among those mechanisms are ‘rescission' and ‘dumping'.

If a sick policy holder omits a minor illness or a pre-existing condition when applying for coverage the insurance company use this as a justification to cancel (rescind) the policy.

In addition, insurance companies dump those businesses whose employees' medical claims exceed what insurance underwriters estimated.

What makes the situation particularly serious is that once an insurer dumps a business, that business has no other viable options because of widespread industry consolidation.

Lack of coverage seriously affects the health of the uninsured because they receive less preventive care, are diagnosed at a later disease stage, tend to receive less quality care and have higher mortality rates than those insured.

This is a crucial moment to solve one of the most savage inequities conspiring against people's health and well being in America.

Both individuals and businesses, particularly small businesses, are at the mercy of powerful corporations' interests.

Unless those interests are curbed, people's health will continue to be a victim of corporations' predatory appetite.

Cesar Chelala, MD, PhD, is a public health consultant for several international agencies.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/08/06-8



(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Pelosi calls SEIU Actions "Un-American" - 8/11/2009 4:41:38 PM   
Sanity


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Firm's tongue-in-cheek humor in this case is pretty damned obvious.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

The original topic is a lie. Pelosi did not call the SEIU actions un-American and you have misrepresented what she said which is why most people objected to the statement at the outset so I won't repeat their comments again.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Pelosi calls SEIU Actions "Un-American" - 8/11/2009 6:55:38 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Firm's tongue-in-cheek humor in this case is pretty damned obvious.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

The original topic is a lie. Pelosi did not call the SEIU actions un-American and you have misrepresented what she said which is why most people objected to the statement at the outset so I won't repeat their comments again.


Some people have no sense of humor, I'm afraid: notice most of the "quick off the mark" posters to my OP.

Brain is just a little slower than most.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Pelosi calls SEIU Actions "Un-American" - 8/11/2009 7:07:10 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

The original topic is a lie. Pelosi did not call the SEIU actions un-American and you have misrepresented what she said which is why most people objected to the statement at the outset so I won't repeat their comments again.

Well, I might as well address this issue to all the humor deficient people who have posted with this complaint.

Nancy Pelosi has said that disrupting meetings and townhalls is "unAmerican".

Unfortunately, one of the unions which is strongly supporting the administration's side in the health care battle is now publishing guidance to it's members and other interested parties to "disrupt meetings and townhalls".

This is the same activities that Polosi has called "unAmerican".

Therefore Nancy Pelosi has indeed called the actions that the SEIU is advocating as "unAmerican", even if she intended to mean only the Tea parties et al.

Where is the lie?

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Brain)
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RE: Pelosi calls SEIU Actions "Un-American" - 8/11/2009 7:26:41 PM   
Sanity


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He's good at cut-and-paste though.


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Pelosi calls SEIU Actions "Un-American" - 8/11/2009 7:41:02 PM   
servantforuse


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I think she meant that it is only un-American if it is republicans attending a meeting and asking questions. It's ok if it is democrats..

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Pelosi calls SEIU Actions "Un-American" - 8/12/2009 7:05:33 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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I'm pretty sure Pelosi was trying to say that anyone disagreeing with her and Barack Obama are un-American. Dissent itself has become un-American now.

"Patriotism" has been redefined. The new requirement is that everyone has to be in perfect lock step with the government, and the SEIU and the Teamsters have been designated an enforcer behind these new rules.


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I think she meant that it is only un-American if it is republicans attending a meeting and asking questions. It's ok if it is democrats..



_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to servantforuse)
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