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Expectations and Improprieties - 2/22/2006 4:43:53 PM

yun

Posts: 138
Joined: 10/21/2005
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greetings Masters, Mistresses and slaves..

(please bare with all the questions please!)

there are a lot of people in the Gorean realm of things that often meet online then take it to an offline meeting. as a slave, i obviously have to do some fact checking, research on someone and give consideration to safety when meeting a Master. i have to be careful about who i meet, how i meet them and where i meet them. but this raises many questions..

to the Dominants here.. what expectations are held by you when meeting a slave? do you expect her to behave in proper decorum of a slave or are they allowed some hesitation until a bond and full trust can be formed? how much faith should she put in the beginning and serve as a kajira should?

to the slaves here.. how true to your slavery are you when you meet someone? or are you basically just a girl meeting a guy until you can evaluate how real he is? do you feel the need to offer your slavery from the beginning and hold yourself (your actions, speech, mannerisms) as a kajira before a Man?

i would enjoy hearing any thoughts or stories on how people handle that first face to face meeting and interaction..

with an allowed voice..

_____________________________

*~lauryl~*
owned property of BLS

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/22/2006 4:50:28 PM

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Joined: 10/7/2005
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Greetings yun,

thank you for starting such an interesting topic.

unfortunately, there are probably those of us that do leap before we look and it causes us to experience some discomfort in the long run but it is hopefully at least a learning experience nevertheless.
recently this one had tried giving of herself immediately but because of this experience
this one has gotten to the point where she feels she must withhold some of herself till trust is established.

however, she is still being true to being told to, go seek and learn to serve, so through it all she does remain pleasing in the long run

to increase the value that Master may find in her as she continues on her slave path.
thankfully there are those that help and guide and watch over as one grows.
the one that watches over her as she walks her path, she trusts this Master as there has been ups and downs but he still has remained there for her.

this one has learned what HNG's are too,lol.......

wisdom comes from our mistakes and
learning and growing is a continuous process.

painful at times and extremely joyous at others.

Be Well

< Message edited by fyreredsub -- 2/22/2006 5:04:27 PM >

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to yun)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/22/2006 6:32:42 PM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

For us, we tend to meet early in the relationship. It is difficult, with as complex as our household is, to explain it to someone via phone, messaging, or emails. They have to -see- us in action to get a feel for how things might be.

That in mind, we expect that we will be meeting a -person-, but it is also an interview. Like a job interview, both sides are actually interviewing, but there is a need for the one who is intending to be subordinate to present him or herself as if he or she is truly -interested- in making a good impression.

We expect that the individuals who "interview" with us -are- servants... that service calls them from deep in their spirits. Therefore, though we do not ask for them to serve us at first meeting, we -do- expect to see some evidence of a person who is shaped of service, rather than one who just puts service on like a cloak, to be shed when it becomes cumbersome or inconvenient.

I don't know if this makes any sense, but I hope it answers your question.

Lady Zephyr

_____________________________

"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to yun)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/22/2006 6:48:15 PM

yun

Posts: 138
Joined: 10/21/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing

Therefore, though we do not ask for them to serve us at first meeting, we -do- expect to see some evidence of a person who is shaped of service, rather than one who just puts service on like a cloak, to be shed when it becomes cumbersome or inconvenient.

greetings Mistress..

what you stated here is pretty much how i go into things, and many have told me that i put too much of myself into that initial meeting. i may not drop to my knees immediately (as we will most likely be in a public setting) but that inclination to serve and tend them is very strong and calls to me. i will do what i can to let them know i'm there to make their life easier or try and wiggle myself into a position to do something for them even if it's to refill a drink.

for myself, i find the need to be what i am strong. i don't want to pansy ass around and sit back and give an aire of arrogance and chalk it up to being hesitant because i may not truly know them. i trust easily, so that desire to show my heart and soul comes up to the surface immediately.

thank you for your response Mistress

with an allowed voice..

_____________________________

*~lauryl~*
owned property of BLS

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/22/2006 7:01:00 PM

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Joined: 10/7/2005
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i find there to be a difference between 'arrogance' and being scared of heartaches from one u dont know yet.
i have found when i have trusted easily i got hurt in the process.but we all know what opinions are like,shrugs

< Message edited by fyreredsub -- 2/22/2006 7:02:29 PM >

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to yun)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/22/2006 7:52:05 PM

yun

Posts: 138
Joined: 10/21/2005
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greetings fyreredsub..

i can agree there is a difference between arrogance and being scared. a lot of how we approach people will be directly in relation to what our past experiences have been. if you have been hurt by trust it is understandable if you are more cautious. when i spoke of being arrogant i meant talking all the talk of a slave and serving while we are emailing/msging..but when it comes down to meeting face to face i suddenly almost equate myself as equal to them and don't show the slave belly and the service that comes from me.

those first meetings becomes a balancing act of serving your heart out and protecting your heart at the same time. that's what i'm trying to find..that proper balance and how others do it.

thank you greatly for your posts, they are always full of honesty and emotion.

with an allowed voice

_____________________________

*~lauryl~*
owned property of BLS

(in reply to fyreredsub)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/22/2006 7:52:18 PM

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

Assumin that I have two girls who beg a collar. One has been owned by a Gorean master and released for accecptable reasons; the other girl has been a sub but now identifies as a slave with no experience in Gorean Lifestyles but had theoretical knowledge.

The first girl with Gorean Experience, I will test ti her limits to see what I have on my hands. Are there things which I need to retrain her in from a Gorean Perspective as well as the areas I need to give her training in her persoal service to me (servibg drinks and food) how I like certain beverages or food etc. (ermmm I've been known to toss a piece of medium rare steak into the air and pinn it with a throwing knife to kill the bloody thing.. I like my meat well done and not half alive). This girl gets little or no slack ..She knows what is required from a kajira...

The second girl will be trained from scratch in all that she needs regarding the lifestyle and my personal requirements..

All things being equal, both girls will have the potential to become the beautiful, resiliant and tough kajira i love and require....

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to fyreredsub)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/23/2006 3:29:23 AM

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Joined: 8/16/2005
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great question yun.

when i meet a potential Master i present myself exactly as i am. i am a whole person who loves herself and values her well-being. my heart is a woman's heart ... not just a slave's heart. my life is well rounded ... not simply based in servitute.

until a girl is owned, she is her own care taker and i believe she should take as best care of herself as possible. i do remain guarded when first meeting a Man but not to such an extent that i don't make it obvious the kind of person i am. an intelligent Man, i believe, will see through my shyness and self protectiveness and know that if he proves himself worthy of the title, Master, that he will be getting a very devoted slave.

as ungorean as it may sound ... i like the "getting to know you" dance. this isn't gor and all men are not Masters. in fact, most men are not. we all know this. so i will not put myself in a position of assuming otherwise for fear of not seeming "kajira enough." what i will do, however, is give a Man the benefit of the doubt and not guard my submissive nature. i will defer to him in small ways such as waiting to see if i'm to follow behind or if he chooses to hold a door open for me. or ... i'll wait for him to take the first bite of food before i begin eating. small, symbolic shows of my desire to serve without putting myself in a compromising position .. and ... without presenting myself as a desperate girl without a sense of self worth.

humbly,
sunshine

(in reply to yun)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/23/2006 4:16:32 AM

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Joined: 10/7/2005
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good morning yun and thank you,

ah i understand the difference in what you say, this makes sense.

i have my moments when i still 'act' a vanilla dominant but that is usually fully provoked,
then barbarian kicks in,instead of slavelike-behavior when i am angry.
( i still have much to learn in the ways of keeping my stubborn, strong side in check when i 'feel ' as i have been wronged).

but to meeting
i wasnt always so reserved, life experience,once again, makes caution step in but i have yet to have a master not understand why, and not be able to see me the slave through
the past pains.

they know should i become theirs that i will give me all and hold nothing back.

that is why consideration time is crucial because unfortunately there are those that take and then they arent what they claim to be*still freshly wounded of recent, even jaded but this one wil bounce back ,grin*

but there are stil small ways to serve, lighting a Masters cig, filling tea glass etc...in public when just meeting,
that the flow of my desire to serve still exists.

( i just have to be more careful of whom i serve) but life is lessons to be learned*winks*
always some good comes out of bad....
bottom line .... i still have to do what is best for me, what i am 'comfortable with' till owned.

happy thursday

quote:

ORIGINAL: yun

greetings fyreredsub..

i can agree there is a difference between arrogance and being scared. a lot of how we approach people will be directly in relation to what our past experiences have been. if you have been hurt by trust it is understandable if you are more cautious. when i spoke of being arrogant i meant talking all the talk of a slave and serving while we are emailing/msging..but when it comes down to meeting face to face i suddenly almost equate myself as equal to them and don't show the slave belly and the service that comes from me.

those first meetings becomes a balancing act of serving your heart out and protecting your heart at the same time. that's what i'm trying to find..that proper balance and how others do it.

thank you greatly for your posts, they are always full of honesty and emotion.

with an allowed voice

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to yun)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/23/2006 4:28:57 AM

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Joined: 10/7/2005
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Good Morning Greetings Master IB,

this one enjoys hearing a Masters perspective on such things, so many of which this one never would have had cross her mind.it still never ceases to amaze me that being master isnt easy work at all

It brings comfort that indeed Masters DO understand the difference tween a trained kajira and a barbarian, lol, this girl just went thro something so similiar and the master didnt understand the difference.

nor were all 'things'equal (giggles*just some of the many reasons...why NOT)

ps i dont like food on me plate wiggling at me either

have a wonderful day

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Assumin that I have two girls who beg a collar. One has been owned by a Gorean master and released for accecptable reasons; the other girl has been a sub but now identifies as a slave with no experience in Gorean Lifestyles but had theoretical knowledge.

The first girl with Gorean Experience, I will test ti her limits to see what I have on my hands. Are there things which I need to retrain her in from a Gorean Perspective as well as the areas I need to give her training in her persoal service to me (servibg drinks and food) how I like certain beverages or food etc. (ermmm I've been known to toss a piece of medium rare steak into the air and pinn it with a throwing knife to kill the bloody thing.. I like my meat well done and not half alive). This girl gets little or no slack ..She knows what is required from a kajira...

The second girl will be trained from scratch in all that she needs regarding the lifestyle and my personal requirements..

All things being equal, both girls will have the potential to become the beautiful, resiliant and tough kajira i love and require....

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/23/2006 9:47:50 PM

Posts: 221
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline

greetings yun,

For me, at least, it depends on the man and what we want out of the meeting. I've never met anyone offline without knowing them online for several years.. and as there is a bit of a closed community involved in the long timers I also tended to know others who had met the men. Safety wasn't really that much of an issue because of that.

I've met Gorean men just for coffee and friendship. I met one just for a good roll in the hay.. because we were friends and it was fun. When I met my Master it was with few expectations. We weren't planning on a long term relationship.. just a week of good sex and fun. It turned into more than that pretty quickly but.. such is the way of things.

As to the rest of your question.. well.. when I met all the men listed above I was a Free woman. So, no, I was not planning on offering my 'kajira self'. *grins* Funny how things turn out.

-nena{R}

(in reply to yun)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/24/2006 3:33:06 PM

Dragonzaymaster

Posts: 72
Joined: 6/18/2005
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I think in this time period, with information and quick travel so easy, safety and discretion is a must. This does not preclude respect from all parties. The best way to know anyone is time. Quick decisions , followed by actions , are like throwing dice. Could get snake eyes.

Dragon

(in reply to nenakajira)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/24/2006 4:38:49 PM

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Joined: 11/3/2004
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Remembering that a man cannot take a woman at his pleasure, as in the days of Yore and Gor, exactly............

I think if someone sparks your interest in a meaningful way, it is pleasant in the fullness of time; to to conduct your appraisal in feminine and demurring fashion.

To be good at what you do, is not incorrect, if your lot in life is to be a slave....... it saves many a beating, Ja?

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Dragonzaymaster)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/25/2006 11:12:30 AM

Posts: 396
Joined: 9/10/2005
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quote:

to the Dominants here.. what expectations are held by you when meeting a slave? do you expect her to behave in proper decorum of a slave or are they allowed some hesitation until a bond and full trust can be formed? how much faith should she put in the beginning and serve as a kajira should?

hello slave girl

You know I don't "dally" much.. and I'm not one to prolong the online BS.. But to answer the question, it would entirely depend on how long the online "dance" went. How much was established. The expectations would have been revealed prior to the meeting.

Regardless, when I meet a girl for the first time. I will spend time with her.. for her to focus.. to let initial fear pass. But it does not take long to calm a slave.. Once done.. On her knees she goes. My problem is how long people let the online dance play.. Jeeeez.. Safety FIRST and always but christ lets not take forever in the online environment.

_____________________________

Master Michael
~~~~~~~~~~
"To sin in silence when he should
speak makes cowards of men"

(in reply to yun)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/25/2006 7:48:44 PM

yun

Posts: 138
Joined: 10/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Webmaster60

But to answer the question, it would entirely depend on how long the online "dance" went.

so what happens Master if there is no online dance? perhaps a slave is given a "referrel" in a sense to a Master..they meet..then what?

to me, i try and show as much of my slavery as i can in that first meeting..it is what i am afterall..why should i candy coat it. i just didn't know what Gorean Men expected on that first meet. i have gotten criticized for it before..but then again i get criticized for not following SSC by the rest of the BDSM community! lol perhaps that's why the online dance is easier to start a relationship..to get all those expectations lined up.

_____________________________

*~lauryl~*
owned property of BLS

(in reply to Webmaster60)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/25/2006 7:57:19 PM

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Joined: 9/10/2005
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quote:

so what happens Master if there is no online dance? perhaps a slave is given a "referrel" in a sense to a Master..they meet..then what?

to me, i try and show as much of my slavery as i can in that first meeting..it is what i am afterall..why should i candy coat it. i just didn't know what Gorean Men expected on that first meet. i have gotten criticized for it before..but then again i get criticized for not following SSC by the rest of the BDSM community! lol perhaps that's why the online dance is easier to start a relationship..to get all those expectations lined up

well slut
if you were given a referral by another Master? on your knees you go.

If you don't know anything about him.. I'd greet him eyes down and ask permission to formally present yourself.

_____________________________

Master Michael
~~~~~~~~~~
"To sin in silence when he should
speak makes cowards of men"

(in reply to yun)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/26/2006 4:30:06 AM

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quote:

If you don't know anything about him.. I'd greet him eyes down and ask permission to formally present yourself.

Master Michael ... what do you mean by "formally present yourself?"

~sunshine

(in reply to Webmaster60)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/26/2006 5:20:53 AM

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How i "act" when i meet a Gorean Man, in all reality depends on him, the setting, the reason i am there. If its a general meeting of checking each other out so to speak. I don't "act" slave i react as slave. i act as myself, which means if he has qualities that will make me react as slave then i will do so unconsciously. Acting as a slave doesn't make one slave. If i am meeting someone i will show him respect simply because i must somehow like him if i am meeting him. If he is considering me for his collar then in, i believe, all reality he is more so looking for my reactions, my unconscious, uncontrolled, instinctive reactions to him than he is to see if i fetch him things, or demure to his decisions on matters moment after meeting him. If i would want his collar my conscious goal would be to be as pleasing as possible, to charm him with my witt lol if he likes that, to stroke his brain with my intelligence if i know he enjoys that, etc.

In my opinion, to serve him without his direction to me would mean i was being arrogant and presumptuous in thinking i already know how to serve him as slave, to to be slave without mastery and ownership, because i decided i was slave, not because he decided i was slave. That i should have the privilege of being allowed to serve him, because i say so, not him. i guess to me forcing my service on a Man is presumptuous and arrogant. i like to believe Men who are Masters know how compel the reaction of slave in such a situation if they wish it. That they are the ones in control therefore, they know 1) why i am there, 2) they will decide what i will and will not do in "serving" them, not me deciding. Sometimes when getting to know a Man to assume he wants you to do certain things can bring out the division of assume. i guess i just see it differently, if the Men are Masters then they will make sure things happen as they want, i will not have to control the situation so he will see me as slave. i am not sure if this makes sense.

So if i am meeting a Man, though i will strive to be pleasing in what i know of him, i am a woman who needs to be mastered and the slave compelled by the Man, i will hesitate in trying to think for him thinking he will want to see this and this and me acting like such and such. i will pretty much allow him control and react instead of act. However, if i know what he likes, i would probably ask him before acting, if he wishes me to do such and such.

All this being said, if i am among men in a party or gathering setting and i am there to be pleasing and serve, then that's a different idea. I would probably take my que from the other girls, i would have instructions from the Man giving the gathering and hopefully help from his girl and the others who are familiar with the Men, guiding me in serving the Men in the ways they individually enjoy as close as possible within a gathering setting.

If i am with a Man who already has a slave, i would more than likely ask her for guidance if i had the chance, if i didn't, i would defer to his girl being the one to serve him unless he specificially stated otherwise, because it would not be my place to usurp his slave's position to him. Or if i wanted to serve him in someway, i would (if i could get my nerve up lol) beg to do so. If he wishes things differently then he will say so.

i am not sure if this makes sense.

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to yun)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/26/2006 9:19:40 AM

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you made a really great point, angel ... about reacting to a Man as apposed to (not your words) showing all your tricks in hopes of enticing him. i agree that it would be presumptious to do so. i hadn't even thought of that altough i would add that i naturally tend to be more reactionary than assertive. the challenge, however, that i have found in relying on my own reactions is that it can put me in a place of passivity. i think there needs to be a healthy balance of not assuming too much while at the same time showing respect to a Man and a desire to serve him.

i suppose that waiting for him to inspire a slave reaction in me might also be seen as lazy or a show of non interest. i mean ... who knows ... a certain Man may fully enjoy a woman pulling out all her tricks as a show of total eagerness. while another Man may prefer a girl who is quiet and humble and simply awaits direction. the thing is ... even if we "react" to a feeling, a vibe, some kind of energy ... we're still guessing as to whether or not we should act on it. so somewhere along the line i gues we all have to make some assumptions and balance our emotional/pschologoical/burning slave belly with our logical/rational/intelligent slave brain of ours.

i'm sure we could overthink this. ... smiles ...

humbly,
sunshine

(in reply to barelynangel)

RE: Expectations and Improprieties - 2/26/2006 10:00:49 AM

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smiles.. hi sunshine, you will find my thinking is usually different from the majority on many levels.

A Man usually doesn't have to work or wait to compel the slave when i meet him. as the other thread explains there is a "thing" that causes the slave to react. Therefore lol if i have to sit around and twiddle my thumbs waithing for the reaction, then there will more than likely not be any mastering occuring.

I think you mistook my Action/reaction idea to be some physical action of his when in all reality, at least with me, it usually has nothing to do with the physical. i am a woman who needs to be mastered, if a man cannot compel the slave then in my opinion he has no chance of mastering me. i have faith in Him to be the Master. I cannot be the one who makes him a Master by my actions if acting like a slave. smiles, many people see it differently.

If a Man cannot compel the slave within me, why should i feign an eagerness to serve him and somehow imply i want to be a slave to him, when i actually wouldn't. i can still be pleasing. But to me to go through the motions of what i believe being slave to him means so to speak to me would be the ultimate insult to a Man because then you are humoring him. What Man would want to have a woman "act" slave to him yet not feel his dominance. So misinterpretations can arise and he believes something of me that is not true? Then it gets all messy and he gets upset when the "acting" disappears because he has not done as he should and mastered. Some people believe differently.

Personally, i don't believe a slave's belly is her desire to serve in the general generic sense (which i think many women believe is true). i fully believe that a slave's belly is a product of mastering by a Man, not just something a woman decides to have. A slave's belly is the ultimate knowledge of her need of a Man, Men at times, to release inside her every instinctual feeling, emotion and action she has as a female, as a woman, and ultimately as a beast mastered to the touch of a Master's hand. Its a sexual thing. The burn she feels is not the burn to run and get him something or pour a drink, the burn she feels is an ache for his hand, for his mastery, to allow her to be fully woman to his Man, the continual knowledge she is at his mercy. The slave's belly in my mind is not serving him, but needing him, aching for the answering cry that she as a female gives out. Personally, i think many women miss this point. IF a woman loses the mastering, she will search and search until she finds it again. Serving is a human desire, i don't beleve its a product that is applicable to only slaves. Personally, i don't see it as a submissive trait either. However, when a slave is mastered and owned, serving is submissive because she is serving the pleasure of her Master, not herself. She may find pleasure in serving outside of the mastering, but that doesn't change the fact if her Master decided to take that away from her, she would not serve because she is mastered.

i hope this clarifies a little more of what i was stating in my post.

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 2/26/2006 10:01:45 AM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to sunshine333)

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