Re-establishing Trust

Re-establishing Trust (Full Version)

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slavejali -> Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 5:11:59 PM)
I was reading the trust topic and the question arose, "If trust has been broken in some way, how could it be re-established?" Is it possible to re-establish trust with a person who: 1. Lied to you? What kind of lies could you forgive? How could you re-establish trust? 2. Said one thing and did another? Whats the dynamic of that and how could trust be re-established? 3. Maybe took play a little or a lot further than you would have liked? 4. Betrayed you in some way? Whose responsibility is it to re-establish trust once its been broken? Do you leave space in your mind and heart to forgive? To me trust is an essential ingredient for a whole and well person to live happily and fulfilled, if its broken it can leave a shadow of a person behind who may never allow themselves to live whoely again, which is a very sad thing. How do people deal with issues of broken trust in different areas of their lives including within a bdsm dynamic?

sweetpettjenny -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 5:15:47 PM)
For me...once trust is broken in certain areas like, cheating, or lies, i can't get past it to forgive. I feel bad but that is who i am.

slavejali -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 5:23:34 PM)
sweetpettjenny: i think cheating is one area I could never forgive or live with as well. p.s. ogod no, one more post and im gonna lose my beautiful handcuffs and get that silly little paddle picture pout

MHOO314 -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 6:16:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavejali I was reading the trust topic and the question arose, "If trust has been broken in some way, how could it be re-established?" Is it possible to re-establish trust with a person who: 1. Lied to you? What kind of lies could you forgive? How could you re-establish trust? 2. Said one thing and did another? Whats the dynamic of that and how could trust be re-established? 3. Maybe took play a little or a lot further than you would have liked? 4. Betrayed you in some way? Whose responsibility is it to re-establish trust once its been broken? Do you leave space in your mind and heart to forgive? To me trust is an essential ingredient for a whole and well person to live happily and fulfilled, if its broken it can leave a shadow of a person behind who may never allow themselves to live whoely again, which is a very sad thing. How do people deal with issues of broken trust in different areas of their lives including within a bdsm dynamic? ohhhh slavejali--made Me walk away and think--major--when trust is broken, I shut down--the door slams shut, I have NEVER been able to start again, even when I tried--it was shortlived---

brightspot -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 6:31:44 PM)
quote: 2. Said one thing and did another? Whats the dynamic of that and how could trust be re-established? I deal differently with each of your questions about trust. #2 I am dealing with right now so I will comment on that one. I made many future plans with my Ex-Domina. After almost 2 years with Her (I spent a month and a half the last visit over the Holidays) Her life became more complicated in a couple areas so the responsibilities to me as my Domina She felt She could not right now have the relationship She desired with me and that She wouldn't settle for less and She hated feeling like she was neglecting me and not reciprocating Her 50% of our relationship, this stressed Her even more, so we decided for now She would release me to be available to someone where I would be getting my needs met also and at this stage we would remain friends. I has been really hard for me to deal with and I do connect with the #2 question right now. I guess we are just trying to handle things the best we can right now. Even though we do not have as much contact as before, we still talk quite often and she is supporting me through this and I am Her. What are good friends for right?[&:] I have just found at my age that staying connected and having possitive relationships with my exes(unless it would be destructive to) from now on is something I want to try and do. I miss past 'nilla lovers that I separated myself from and since the love can get very intense with a D/s dynamic, I would rather see that love transform into a different kind of love than erase it out of my life[;)]. *Brightspot

classykindasassy -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 6:58:19 PM)
Wow, this is a loaded question and loaded subject. I am a very intuitive person, and for me to even go about the activity of restoring trust, I have to know that the person in question is worth (for me) the risk. I have to know that the nature of the mistake made is totally owned in terms of responsibility by the person wanting back into my life. There are some kinds of mistakes that it would require a lot of willful stupidity to make. Like knowingly breaking an explicit agreement around fidelity. Those kinds of actions send an unmistakable signal that I will not ignore. Then there are other kinds of human weakness and mistakes that I can see that a person did out of a kind of selfishness or self-protection that I find forgivable as I'd be prone to it myself. Nothing malicious, no breaking of agreements - just maybe a selfish act where no one or nothing (including the relationship) was really harmed. Those are pretty forgivable and forgettable. I always counsel people that ESPECIALLY when it comes to grave offenses, forgiveness is for the benefit of the offended, not the one who committed the action. It is so YOU can release YOURSELF from the torture of being wronged, and let it go. It is not so much to absolve someone else's conscience. That is a gift you may or may not want to give. What matters most is letting go of your own suffering anytime you are hurt. And just because you forgive, this does not mean you HAVE TO trust them and let them close again. People who do shitty things do need to get that there are consequences to actions. They do not automatically deserve another chance just because they ask for it. Trust your gut. And, at same time if it is fitting, don't be afraid to risk looking like a fool for love if you really want to trust this person again. But really apply conscious examination to what you are doing and calulate whether you are willing to have your gamble go wrong. Best gambling advice I've had: "you can't play with scared money". You'll lose it every time.

angelic -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 7:00:56 PM)
my trust was broken... i forgave... trust was broken again... trusting again will be very difficult for the next One... whose fault is it? mine... i trusted again when i knew better.

Driver1961 -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 7:45:55 PM)
He enters, dips Hi lid to all................. Firstly, thankyou slavejali for a delightful very topical subject to me atm! quote: What are good friends for right? I have just found at my age that staying connected and having possitive relationships with my exes(unless it would be destructive to) from now on is something I want to try and do. I miss past 'nilla lovers that I separated myself from and since the love can get very intense with a D/s dynamic, I would rather see that love transform into a different kind of love than erase it out of my life . An excellent point "brightspot" and my sentiments exactly. We are normally attracted to a sexual partner for the friendship values. quote: I always counsel people that ESPECIALLY when it comes to grave offenses, forgiveness is for the benefit of the offended, not the one who committed the action. It is so YOU can release YOURSELF from the torture of being wronged, and let it go. It is not so much to absolve someone else's conscience. That is a gift you may or may not want to give. What matters most is letting go of your own suffering anytime you are hurt. And just because you forgive, this does not mean you HAVE TO trust them and let them close again. People who do shitty things do need to get that there are consequences to actions. They do not automatically deserve another chance just because they ask for it. Thankyou classykindasassy! [b] So many people fail to understand your point and so repeat the same hurt or leave themselves closed (with the baggage) to bring it into the next relationship. I will repeat your point in bold again (can't manipulate the quote window into bold) And just because you forgive, this does not mean you HAVE TO trust them and let them close again. People who do shitty things do need to get that there are consequences to actions. They do not automatically deserve another chance just because they ask for it. Yes, we definately can (and I strive to) forgive another for their actions, but that forgiveness doesnt at all mean that 'all will be good ' again. We deal with our emotions so strangely. I know that if my trusted partner or friend unintentionally but very stupidly 'lost' say $100,000 of mine, without first informing of their intended action- (So I could tell them how I'd react) I would forgive them for their stupidity regardless of how they may have been intending to please me, but I would never allow them to do that again to me..........by ceasing the relationship or implementing 'self protection' strategies.... Like who wouldnt? and folks this is only money! But with our emotions- we confuse core elements of our soul, our health,wellbeing as being worth less than money! I would rather have a shack, health and happiness than money anyday. Yes, like probably all of us, I have lost my 'intimate innocence' and returned not realizing the important leson to live by from this, only to be crushed again. I love my reflective journey! I still trust others with my soul but not those that have hurt me who expect that an apology will make everything alright again. Those people have to re-establish my trust by their ongoing reinforcing actions of their reflective learning from their wrongdoing at distance from me. A huge wave to all. He departs..............

seaturtle50 -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 7:48:39 PM)
Interesting thread slavejali! And one where i can speak from experience. Seems i have managed to get myself into several relationships where trust was violated. First of all i must say that i have come to understand that i am the common denominator and it was in the choices <of partners> where i made my error. i will not go into detail on that here - but suffice it to say that i was attracted to those who untimely did not honor my trust. Fortunately i have also noted much improvement overall in my choice process. For me to answer the questions you pose, i must first assume i am speaking of a person in my life that i care for, or even one that i love. quote: Is it possible to re-establish trust with a person who: quote: 1. Lied to you? What kind of lies could you forgive? How could you re-establish trust? Yes. i could provided the person came to me and revealed the lying. If they are found out by me ... then it will largely depend on how they handle it when i bring it to light and ask about it. In the event that they are not able to own their own "lie" for whatever reason or motivation that they did it - that is a very big major red flag to me <read flashing neon>. I do understand humans to some degree, by coming to understand myself. i know that we are after all just people, and that means an awful lot of frailties and shortcomings, that can be behind the motivation to lie. It is through the veil of this limited understanding of the human condition that forgiveness and re-establishing trust is possible for me. Please understand - i do abhor lying. to me it is an intimacy stealer, and i take that personally. But based on the overall attitude of the offender, i could forgive. An exception to that would be if your #2 were in play. quote: 2. Said one thing and did another? Whats the dynamic of that and how could trust be re-established? If there is this type of incongruency happening it is an even bigger red flag to me that described above. i would feel compelled to discuss this, and shorten the rope of the relationship considerably. If this behavior continued - i would need to excuse myself from that "friendship." No exceptions for self-preservation reasons. quote: 3. Maybe took play a little or a lot further than you would have liked? i do not have practical experience with this one. [8\|] quote: 4. Betrayed you in some way? This one is easy for me. My friends do not betray me. i know that for certain. While it is also true that they do not lie to me, i do not need to see a pattern of betrayal to know that person is not my friend. One time would do it for me. quote: Whose responsibility is it to re-establish trust once its been broken? iMHO the relationship is the responsibility of both parties. i know that i have yet to be blameless in anything that has happened in my life, the good, bad, and ugly. quote: Do you leave space in your mind and heart to forgive? Yes, even if the actions prove to me a need to move on, i would still be focused on my need to forgive. All i ask from the universe in return is that i never be given "justice" for all of the wrongs i have ever committed, be they intended or not. quote: To me trust is an essential ingredient for a whole and well person to live happily and fulfilled, if its broken it can leave a shadow of a person behind who may never allow themselves to live wholly again, which is a very sad thing. To me the above quote is the beautiful truth, and nears poetry. That said - for my own sanity <and for healing purposes when required> i must always get focused on my personal responsibility in the matter. At the very least, i permitted the offender into my life and allowed them a position from which to lie to me, or otherwise abuse my trust. That is mine. i own that. Armed with that truth, i think i am in a better position when next making similar choices and decisions in my life. i would just like to add that to me the ultimate betrayal and dishonoring from a loved one is when my intuitive voice causes me to be aware of something <which later is revealed to be true> and when asked about it, the person i trust tries to convince me to doubt myself, rather than reveal the truth. This is a form of r_pe as far as i am concerned. i am committed to the fact that my friend does not treat me this way, and the first time someone does this to me, regardless of the length or development of our relationship - i know them to be non-friend. Non-negotiable. Thanks for asking - i was only planning on giving my .02 cents - but ended up throwing the whole nickel in there. [8\|] To never trust again ... would be to never live again too! st50

slavejali -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 8:04:22 PM)
I'm really enjoying reading the replies, thanks so much to everyone who is contributing. I guess what made me think of these questions, is that we all accept i think that rotten things happen but the residue those horrible things leave behind is often worse than the initial event....(it really makes me sad when i see someone sad)...so i kind of wanted to take a "whats on the other side of these events" approach to the question. We often set ourselves with an approach to life and what we will and wont find acceptable in how we are treated by others, but when that isnt honored by those around us, how we deal with it is really going to affect our lives hey.

seaturtle50 -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 8:09:13 PM)
quote: We often set ourselves with an approach to life and what we will and wont find acceptable in how we are treated by others, but when that isnt honored by those around us, how we deal with it is really going to affect our lives hey. Agreed. And i personally think these living situations to be the forge where character is shaped. st50

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 9:04:08 PM)
If someone broke trust with the intention to hurt me. Unforgiveable. As in cheating, stealing, holding back needed information, or repeatedly lying(deception) in general. Accidents aren't a violation of trust by definition. Beyond that all is potentially forgiveable. Really, I guess, trust is completely lost, once a person intentionally acts against me. I can't trust someone that can't decide what side they are on. That would apply to BDSM or anything in life, really. Thanks

Petruchio -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 9:10:16 PM)
A great topic, jali. It is so hard to repair. Abject behavior and a perpetual commitment is the only way to rebuild. I've a couple of friends that took years. It is almost as bad when the tormented betrayed person has so much trouble forgetting as well as forgiving.

proudsub -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 9:49:29 PM)
Hubby and i are still working on re-establishing His trust in me. He forgave for my affair (for those who don't know, about 3 yrs ago i went outside my marriage to experience a bdsm relationship), but i know He doesn't totally trust me to not do it again. He now always makes me account for my time, wants to know everywhere i've been and also monitors my intenet use more carefully. In spite of that i feel that our relationship is stronger than ever mainly due to being so much more open with each other about our desires.

slave4Darby3d -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 10:23:02 PM)
awesome topic. And, like the others, my answer varies based on circumstance. If intentional, to hurt or spite - unforgiveable. People do stupid stuff sometimes that breaches trust. The key is immediately fessing up to it, before being found out. At least with me. But, if it involves a discussed and understood boundary, like the respectful tie of a relationship - well, then no breach is ok. I'll take it a (probably unpopular) step further and state that the sin of omission to me is as bad as an outright breach of trust. If I ask a question, and the answer meanders around the truth in a polite and fluffy way - watch out! but that's just me... your results may vary...

truesub4u -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 10:24:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Petruchio A great topic, jali. It is almost as bad when the tormented betrayed person has so much trouble forgetting as well as forgiving. I'm one of the ones that can forgive... but never forget. I never lose my suspicions. I can't not and will not tolerate a liar or a theif. And as for a cheat.. only once.. you don't get a second chance ......

Petruchio -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 10:39:33 PM)
8-1/2 years and I walked away. I knew in my heart that she could never be trusted. And I was still in love with her.

truesub4u -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 10:44:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Petruchio 8-1/2 years and I walked away. I knew in my heart that she could never be trusted. And I was still in love with her. Sucks don't it?... But we do what we have to do... to be who we are.. and be able to live the best we can...

Lordandmaster -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/22/2006 11:44:36 PM)
Generally, I forgive lying and dishonesty under one condition: if the person who lied or was dishonest tells me about it. In other words, if I discover that you've been dishonest, that's basically end-of-story; but if you come and tell me that you've been dishonest, I could be persuaded to give you another chance. In practice, however, every time I've given someone a second chance, I've made a mistake. Usually people who are dishonest once are going to be dishonest again.

slavejali -> RE: Re-establishing Trust (2/23/2006 1:00:55 AM)
quote: Usually people who are dishonest once are going to be dishonest again. That's a real point. If someone has broken your trust over a major issue, unless they do some major reconstruction of their personality flaws, they are almost destined to repeat it, it would take a heck of a lot to re-trust that person.

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